I agree 100% with Drew here

[Stealthie]

What I really intended by that was for those stories to have the assets added to the game, rather than stopping them altogether. Certainly didn't want all of the backstory stuff to disappear.

All that really needed to happen is for the writers to be more careful about making the implication that players could interact with the stories.

That's the key issue.

A bunch of galnet articles, each month, that are simply flowery prose about the general state of the ED universe are perfectly fine with me.
If there's somebody at FDev (or if FDev can find other somebody's) who wants to dabble in a bit of light fiction, which (at best) provides a bit of a callback to The Dark Wheel, all power to 'em.
I'll happily listen to a galnet article that reads like the title-crawl of a Star Wars movie.

Trouble is, when those stories start mentioning specific events, on specific planets, involving specific factions, it's inevitable that players will assume there's some in-game content being hinted at, and when that turns out to be incorrect dissapointment will follow.

As you say, when faced with this problem, I suspect what most people were asking for was actually in-game content to support the galnet articles rather then cancelling the galnet articles.
Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard, to me.
Stuff relating to megaships managed it fairly well and, honestly, didn't need to be as detailed as it was.
Just give us a few galnet stories about, say, traders meeting people who seem oddly old-fashioned in a certain region and then we can search the region and find a megaship.
Alternatively, give us a couple of stories, each month, about ships going missing in a particular region and then bung a bunch of wrecked ships on the surface of a high-g planet.
Perhaps some stories about ship captains who've arrived at stations with rare commodities to sell and it turns out there's a planet nearby with G5 mat's on it.
Maybe people in some system report seeing shooting stars and it'll turn out there are crashed Thargoid scouts to be found on the surface.
Etc.

The content doesn't have to be significant, interactive or dynamic (or end in a CG) but it does have to be something.

 

[Heater]

I listened to the video... I must say I agree with 100% of what Drew said, he is spot on.

 

[Old Duck]

Doesn't the fact you can totally ignore the story in skyrim prove my point in that open world games don't actually need one ?

LOL, if you think Skyrim would be just as good without lore and stories (and I'm not just talking those books, but quests and NPC dialog and ruins and many other things), well then you have proven MY point that you'll say ANYTHING to defend Frontier, regardless of how utterly ridiculous it sounds.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Doesn't the fact you can totally ignore the story in skyrim prove my point in that open world games don't actually need one ?

You can ignore exploration in ED and stay inside the bubble for your entire playthrough, it does not mean that the game does not benefit from exploration mechanics.

Pure sandboxes are not my thing, I dont play them, likely never will...... Good thing that ED isnt one then!. being able to ignore the lore and any story is ok.... but it does not mean that lore and story should not be in the game.... just like plenty of people ignore the BGS, does not mean it isnt cool that it is there.

I am fairly certain Skyrim would have sold less had there been no story at all**. (actually I am 100% certain...... at the very least it would have made 1 less sale).

**I wont lie tho, i would have liked a bit more variation in npc monolog,, that arrow to the knee meme is about as annoying as the in the top 1% passenger vessels in ED!.

 

[Stigbob]

Without lore and some backstory, whats the context of anything? Why are Imperial ships white and curvy? Why should I support the Feds? With no context everything becomes superficial and differences meaningless.

Does any of it need a story context ?. I'm just a freelance pilot.

Lasers stop at 3km's unless I mod them, the context of that is making dogfighting close range and fun whilst making escape possible. No explanation needed.

Thargoids are really tricky to take on and fun to fight, so lemme at em. Who cares why DAKKA DAKKA KERSPLODE GNNYARRRG I'M MELTING !.

At the same time I support a PMF because its a ready supply of in game friends and missions with a purpose, I've never read the blurb on the factions history though (sorry chaps). It was a couple of years before I eventually realized we were imperial.

LOL, if you think Skyrim would be just as good without lore and stories (and I'm not just talking those books, but quests and NPC dialog and ruins and many other things), well then you have proven MY point that you'll say ANYTHING to defend Frontier, regardless of how utterly ridiculous it sounds.

That arrow in your knee is in the top 1% of arrows out there.

I get that misery loves company and I'm fine with that, I do find it a bit odd that people resent positivity so much but I've always seen the funny side of that anyway.

 

[Ezren]

How many threads do we really need about GalNet? Everyone seems to be coming along with "Okay guys, same topic, but this time it's my opinion!"

 

[Stigbob]

How many threads do we really need about GalNet? Everyone seems to be coming along with "Okay guys, same topic, but this time it's my opinion!"

The real question is if so many people thought gal-net was the bee's knee's and totally vital to stuff how come everyone always just moaned about it in the past, the only person I can ever remember saying something nice about it was me.

Its almost as if its just this weeks fashionable gripe and the real issue is "are we there yet".

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Does any of it need a story context ?. I'm just a freelance pilot.

Lasers stop at 3km's unless I mod them, the context of that is making dogfighting close range and fun whilst making escape possible. No explanation needed.

Thargoids are really tricky to take on and fun to fight, so lemme at em. Who cares why DAKKA DAKKA KERSPLODE GNNYARRRG I'M MELTING !.

At the same time I support a PMF because its a ready supply of in game friends and missions with a purpose, I've never read the blurb on the factions history though (sorry chaps). It was a couple of years before I eventually realized we were imperial.

if it is there you can choose to ignore it, which is great for you..... but the elite franchise has always been a lore heavy game - given 2 of the 4 games came with stories included to set the scene, and ED has a heap of novels written around it kind of shows that lore is important to a lot of us........

but to say... "I am not interested therefore it isnt important full stop" seems a bit................................ strange.

Galnet was not perfect... but that said (and even more so after galnet audio was added so i could have it running whilst i did my thing) it was a great feature to have... that said lore in Elite goes far beyond galnet imo.

 

[Stealthie]

LOL, if you think Skyrim would be just as good without lore and stories (and I'm not just talking those books, but quests and NPC dialog and ruins and many other things), well then you have proven MY point that you'll say ANYTHING to defend Frontier, regardless of how utterly ridiculous it sounds.

Personally, I'd say it's the "nods" in games like Skyrim and Fallout that really bring the world to life, at least as much as the "formal" lore.

You're wandering through a dungeon in Skyrim and you find a locked gate with a skeleton lying next to it, with it's arm reaching through the gate, toward a health potion.
You're wandering around the world and you find a charred corpse next to a staff of Firebolts.
You're exploring the Fallout wasteland and you find a shipping container with a bed and some supplies inside it and there's a dead body nearby, next to a pipe-rifle with no ammo.
Maybe you break into a house and find a couple of dessicated corpses lying on a bed, hand in hand.

It doesn't take a lot to create a "living world" in a game.

 

[Stigbob]

if it is there you can choose to ignore it, which is great for you..... but the elite franchise has always been a lore heavy game - given 2 of the 4 games came with stories included to set the scene, and ED has a heap of novels written around it kind of shows that lore is important to a lot of us........

but to say... "I am not interested therefore it isnt important full stop" seems a bit................................ strange.

Galnet was not perfect... but that said (and even more so after galnet audio was added so i could have it running whilst i did my thing) it was a great feature to have... that said lore in ED goes far beyond galnet imo.

Nope, Elites always been a spacedowhateveryouwantulator. Story is secondary, if you notice it at all.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Does any of it need a story context ?. I'm just a freelance pilot.

Lasers stop at 3km's unless I mod them, the context of that is making dogfighting close range and fun whilst making escape possible. No explanation needed.

Thargoids are really tricky to take on and fun to fight, so lemme at em. Who cares why DAKKA DAKKA KERSPLODE GNNYARRRG I'M MELTING !.

At the same time I support a PMF because its a ready supply of in game friends and missions with a purpose, I've never read the blurb on the factions history though (sorry chaps). It was a couple of years before I eventually realized we were imperial.

"I've never read the blurb on the factions history though (sorry chaps)"

So what if they have a history of slaving? Or that they fight injustice? Without a background there is no difference between any PMF or reasons to join one.

"purpose"

Without context, purpose is meaningless.

Its like with Powerplay leaders: outside of the module, a lot of people liked the leader and what they stood for. With none of that, it comes down to superficial reasons to join.

 

[Stigbob]

"I've never read the blurb on the factions history though (sorry chaps)"

So what if they have a history of slaving? Or that they fight injustice? Without a background there is no difference between any PMF or reasons to join one.

Its just a video game so I'm not really that bothered, if they tried to involve me in real life slavery then I'd be very annoyed and possibly leave.

Its like with Powerplay leaders: outside of the module, a lot of people liked the leader and what they stood for. With none of that, it comes down to superficial reasons to join.

Powerplay ? <yawns> I wouldnt mind some cytoscramblers for my BH'ing sidey, but I can't be doing with all that pledging malarkey. Last time I forgot and flew about with an unnecessary target on my ship for ages .

 

[Mengy]

With a sandbox stories frequently just get in the way. Its the last thing I bought ED for.

I don't agree with this. Sandbox games can allow personal narratives alongside great story elements as well. A good sandbox game does not NEED story elements, but it can contain both.

The problem with Elite Dangerous is that it's not really a sandbox game at all. It has elements of a sandbox game but the sand is mostly immutable. The player is largely inconsequential to the game world and the sand has all solidified into cured concrete.

ED is much more of an "amusement park" game. It's filled with attractions the player can see and interact with but the attractions are fixed in place, there is nothing to build or create in ED other than your ship fleet and bank account, and to a very minor degree the background simulation, but even that is largely immutable. This greatly narrows the opportunities for personal narratives to take place. Couple this with the lack of story elements and you get where ED is today: mostly a game containing attractions to see and interact with but not change.

This is by design of course, Frontier has always stated the player is not a hero but instead a very minor cog in the galaxy. You can gain ranks and acquire wealth but you have nothing to spend said wealth on other than more ships, there is nothing to influence or build in Elite Dangerous. Because of that it is not a "sandbox" game in the truest sense.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

Nope, Elites always been a spacedowhateveryouwantulator. Story is secondary, if you notice it at all.

Story and narrative are certainly secondary, but, as Drew explained in the video, lore is not story.

The lore of the game is primary, as it is (or, rather should be) the foundation of what you can expect from the universe, even in terms of what you can do in the game. If lore becomes secondary to gameplay, then Elite could happily become a mashup of any number of different games and literary universes, gameplay-wise, and the lore would be a complete mess; being written only to handwave the gameplay... like what happened with the camera suite, multi-crew, telepresence and all that. Lore written to fit the gameplay, rather than gameplay created that gels with the lore (or at least presents a natural development of the lore).

 

[Old Duck]

Powerplay ? <yawns> I wouldnt mind some cytoscramblers for my BH'ing sidey, but I can't be doing with all that pledging malarkey. Last time I forgot and flew about with an unnecessary target on my ship for ages .

Are you making fun of Frontier again? I can't believe you are calling one of the foundational features in the game "malarkey"! It's really not cool to be bashing the developers like that. Shame on you!

 

[Arioch]

..given 2 of the 4 games came with stories included to set the scene, and ED has a heap of novels written around it kind of shows that lore is important to a lot of us........

Elite: The Dark Wheel
FE2: Stories of Life on the Frontier
FFE: Further Stories of Life on the Frontier

ED: (my posh KS box came with Michael Brookes’ novel, but not quite the same)

...so 3 out of the 4. Pedantic nerdmode >Off

 

[2plex]

The real question is if so many people thought gal-net was the bee's knee's and totally vital to stuff how come everyone always just moaned about it in the past, the only person I can ever saying something nice about it was me.

Its almost as if its just this weeks fashionable gripe and the real issue is "are we there yet".

True, GalNet never was 'Bee's Knee's ' as you pointed out, but it was something.
The point here is, that Frontier's blatant disregard of any kind of engagement with the lore and/or their neglect of any lore advancement must not go unnoticed.
As Drew aptly assumed in his stream, this was most certainly not the decision of the writer's team or the devs, but most certainly a decision of someone in the higher echelons of Frontier's management, who plainly determined "No, we don't want this and we don't need it anyways."
It's just painful to see, how Frontier's questionable management decisions in the past and present led to this game's underwhelming current state.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Its just a video game so I'm not really that bothered, if they tried to involve me in real life slavery then I'd be very annoyed and possibly leave.

Powerplay ? <yawns> I wouldnt mind some cytoscramblers for my BH'ing sidey, but I can't be doing with all that pledging malarkey. Last time I forgot and flew about with an unnecessary target on my ship for ages .

There are some people who won't join the Kumo crew because they are stanchly against slavery- other players Fed to the core. The lore and story provides a framework that elevates their game beyond a simple 84 Elite clone and the limits of the BGS.

 

[Stigbob]

True, GalNet never was 'Bee's Knee's ' as you pointed out, but it was something.
The point here is, that Frontier's blatant disregard of any kind of engagement with the lore and/or their neglect of any lore advancement must not go unnoticed.

Or you could view it as effort being expended on the FC's expansion and new era. Which I'd prefer to some radio fluff in the meantime.

As Drew aptly assumed in his stream, this was most certainly not the decision of the writer's team or the devs, but most certainly a decision of someone in the higher echelons of Frontier's management, who plainly determined "No, we don't want this and we don't need it anyways."
It's just painful to see, how Frontier's questionable management decisions in the past and present led to this game's underwhelming current state.

Dev bashing isn't a good look, for him or you.

Are you making fun of Frontier again? I can't believe you are calling one of the foundational features in the game "malarkey"! It's really not cool to be bashing the developers like that. Shame on you!

Your internal narratives leaking again.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Elite: The Dark Wheel
FE2: Stories of Life on the Frontier
FFE: Further Stories of Life on the Frontier

ED: (my posh KS box came with Michael Brookes’ novel, but not quite the same)

...so 3 out of the 4. Pedantic nerdmode >Off

I will accept that, so 4/4 came with a story then (I got the posh box too)

Shame on me for forgetting that Elite 2 and 3 also came with one