General / Off-Topic The safest place
- Thread starter Robin of Spiritwood
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Is it really that hard to see that I'm talking about something different than you?
Anything can be classed as PPE, as long as its providing personal protection relevant to the task at hand.
My steel toecap boots for example, are classed as PPE.
Yeah . The confusion really was about the term "respirator"...Ian referred to the facepieces and even full kit of mechanical ventilators, while I had only seen the term in conjunction with various types of PPE Masks .
Any possible nation wide plan to deal with the spread, from start to finish, has necessarily to be based on the numbers of the spread, that are directly related to direct and indirect contagion. Guess how do you deal with contagion management?
Or do someone here thinks that nation wide plans to deal with a spread of a virus, aren't going to be made on, well, the spread of a virus....maybe ephemeris, or the alignment of Jupiter in Capricorn?
That indeed shouldn't be hard to see at all.
To be blunt, it's people with attitudes like this that are the problem, and will be the first to be dripping like a sceptic tank that the 'polite lockdown' didn't work.
Jason's highlighting that various 'eggheads' have offered several plans, from straight out lockdown (which is where we're heading) to full on herd immunity plans.
Maybe on a national lvl . I think it is safe to say that about everyone who was more concerned about ways to solve the pandemic globally was pretty united and clear from a certain point in time on ( I think based on knowledge about the Beast gathered ).
Just scanned the last page or so of posts that came in while I slept. Good to see that the insults, condescension and America bashing is still cracking right along
As an european, I don't understand the condescending attitude towards america either...
Pretty much ALL of europe failed miserably to take prevention measures, even when some european countries were already being struck hard. . Everything being done so far has always been at least 2 weeks too late, and purely reactive measures.
Not a single politician in western europe had the cojones to act and enforce a travel ban, closed borders and enforce lockdown before the country was already overrun with cases. They all waited until poop had already hit the fan, staring at each other like donkeys string at a palace. And even now we only have a soft lockdown, where people are being asked to stay at home.
Even now, loads of europeans are not giving a fart to the quarantine and are still roaming public places without necessity (including the elderly), thus spreading the virus.
Now that finally something is being done, a couple weeks were enough to cause massive shortage of stuff like gloves or disinfectants in several countries. In my own country, even doctors, nurses and ambulance crews are getting infected due to lack of protection gear. And most european countries don't even have industrial capacity to start manufacturing this stuff quickly. It's the downside of outsourcing all industrial production to China and Bangladesh...
I honestly don't see anything that could allows us to be condescending towards others. If anything, we should be ashamed of our own governments, our own institutions, and our people (well, part if it).
America mail end up failing as well dealing with the pandemic, but we europeans don't really have any reason to talk down on others.
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Here is a question for you : Travel bans . Do you think they worked ?
In other news :
The Facts on Trump's Travel Restrictions - FactCheck.org
President Donald Trump has made a number of misleading statements about his decision on Jan. 31 to impose travel restrictions related to the novel coronavirus epidemic.
www.factcheck.org
And that shows you don't understand my attitude or the point behind my comment ... usual fare for this forum.
Except that nobody is being condescending towards America, but rather critical to certain elements in the government for specific reasons. And you are right about European governments, which is why this topic has consistently been critical of actions taken by our respective governments. I've extensively voiced my concerns about the path chosen by the Dutch government, and Boris Johnson has not come out of this topic unscathed either, for example. And nobody (including the people nwo complaining) has an issue with any that, because being critical of your government is your responsibility as a citizen in a democracy.
The only issue is that a small number of people here struggle when the same critical mindset is applied to their government, because they believe any criticism of their dear leader is an 'attack on America'. But no amount of Calimero-attitude will encourage me to make an exception for their chosen idol or to entertain the notion that the reputation of a politician should take priority over the well-being of the people. Any people. And if some people here struggle so much when hearing criticism they don't want to hear, they can simply hit the ignore button, retreat into their safe space and discuss whatever inane conspiracy theory they need to belief in to deal with reality.
I am here to discuss COVID19 and the facts surrounding it. Anyone upset about this conflicting with their political ideology and beliefs will just need to find a way to deal with that.
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I fully understood your "No one can tell me what to do" attitude. What you don't seem to understand is that attitudes like that are what lead to the debacles we saw over the weekend in the UK.
Shrugs
The Destiny of Lemmings.
Agreed. People have to be told what to do, because they're too selfish and ignorant to do it willingly. If they would stop acting like petulant children, then the government wouldn't need to step in. It's as simple as that.
Personally, I think the lockdown measures will eventually go further, because the public are still not taking this seriously.
@Synkreto are you in Germany? I look at the numbers coming from there and take great hope. You have, as of yesterday, roughly 50% of the number of infections as our current worst case model in Italy (though Spain is coming up fast), yet the mortality rate in Germany is almost insignificant compared to Italy. I have my own theory, but I'm very curious as to your opinion on this. Everybody else's, too.
Why are people catching the virus by the tens of thousands in Germany but not dying? Probably the most critical question in the entire world right now
Why are people catching the virus by the tens of thousands in Germany but not dying? Probably the most critical question in the entire world right now
Because 1) they are by far testing the most, so they care catching a lot of 'mild' cases that go unaccounted for (in most countries only those being hospitalized are currently being tested, which obviously biases the data towards the more severe outcomes), and 2) they have very high number of hospital and ICU beds per capital, meaning they can treat all severe cases.
New data in the Netherlands: daily deaths up by 88%, new cases up by 48%. ICU filled to 60% of total capacity.
But don't forget, seasonal flu is just as bad, right guys? Right?!
jason, with all respect...I have written several lengthy posts about that exact same thing you are asking about in the last 10 or so days . Some more, some less detailled . Please understand I do not want to reiterate all that...again .
Also, if you want to, take a look at worlometers numbers, globally, and for Germany . I STILL think Germany has done a lot if not most things right so far...AND we have many beds and excellent healthcare...but, looking at cases with an outcome, we have a rather frightenly high deathrate ( 25% EDIT : THE NUMBERS JUST CHANGED WHILE I WAS TYPING THIS . 15% is still high ) . So, while some aspects of our numbers do look good, I wold not exactly say they they are giving me hope...rather, I dread what is going to happen to other Nations .
As a comparison : For all I know, Germany effectively locked down the first known cluster ( first confirmed case in Germany at company Webasto 28th Jan. ) . At the moment of known CONTACT of a person in nation with a confirmed case, testing, surveillance, tracing, isolation, quarantine began. Acually, the company shut down the 1.000ppl facility for I think 3 weeks .
The US had 4 confirmed cases in country before the travel restrictions which were touted as "travel ban" were put in place . And its still debated whether any testing should be done, at all .
Please, please bro, do not take this as AntiAmerican . I am really just trying to inform you .
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