General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Han_Zen]

Just to make sure people understand how totally not surprised the scientific community is:

It not easy to clean up exotic live animal markets in just 13 years. Particularly when you are busy putting people in concentration camps, for not being Chinese enough.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Its been reported in a few reputable papers, although probably not as prevalent as the newspapers are makjng out.

Violence against ambulances is not a new sign of 'society breaking down' as some might interpret it. Rather, it is the case of 1) media normally not reporting it, and 2) media now reporting it.

Ambulance Crews at High Risk for Injuries, Assaults, Data Shows

From handling combative patients to being exposed to contagious diseases, emergency medical workers face one of the most dangerous and injury-prone jobs in the country, according to researchers and federal workplace safety data. Emergency medical technicians (EMTs), who provide basic life...

www.nbcboston.com

Maguire, one of the only researchers in the United States to study the subject in depth, said the rate of assaults against EMS personnel is at least 22 times higher than all other occupations. And it may be much higher.

"One of the findings is that it happens way more frequently than is generally recognized," he said, "and the vast majority of cases go unreported. "So the EMS person is assaulted, and then there's no report or there's no follow-up. And that's for a variety of reasons. Sometimes people think that this is part of their job, and there may be organizational or cultural pressure to just accept it and not report it."

Reichard, the researcher at the CDC, said her group reached a similar conclusion.

"Our [injury] numbers aren't huge in the violence area, but we suspect that there's a large amount of underreporting that occurs -- that EMS workers often feel like it's just part of the job," she said, "so I feel that our numbers just aren't a good representation of what's happening out there in violence."

A big part of it is that ambulances don't show up for fun, so people tend to be really stressed out already. And when it involves multiple victims, ambulance staff has to do the traditional triage; who needs help now, who can wait a few minutes. But bystanders are not medically trained, and when they see their wife, or child, lying in a bloody heap on the floor they expect staff to help them immediately. Same with risk of contagion: people aren't experts, people are terrified, so a small number of them will do stupid stuff when they think the ambulance is 'bringing the plague to them'. And some people are simply dingleberries.

 

[Ian Skippy]

What's this thing some communities have with eating bats anyway? Ebola was also transmitted to people from bats... It's like eating rats. Although in the Congo I can understand that with starvation we don't get to be picky, but was it the case in China, or was it some local bullpoo belief that it enhances virility like their thing with eating tiger testicles?

No, Ebola is not directly via bats. Bats are the reservoir host, but it typically jumps to us via other animals, most notably gorillas. That is one of those things people don't realize: just because [x] is the reservoir, doesnt mean it jumped to us via that species. We don't know if COVID19 came to us directly from bats (evidence suggests it might have been pangolins), we only know that they are involved at some point. Same with Hendra in Australia: horse eats something contaminated with bat urine/feces, horse becomes sick, human treating horse becomes sick. At no point did anyone eat a bat, or a horse.

Hendra is particularly interesting because it shows how an amplifier species works. Bats alone don't have the ability to spread it to humans, they need an amplifier. Same as with foot&mouth disease; many farm animals can get it, but none of them spread it out anywhere close to what pigs do. So once the disease infects a group of pigs, suddenly it jumps from farm to farm way faster than had it only been ruminants.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Violence against ambulances is not a new sign of 'society breaking down' as some might interpret it. Rather, it is the case of 1) media normally not reporting it, and 2) media now reporting it.

Ambulance Crews at High Risk for Injuries, Assaults, Data Shows

From handling combative patients to being exposed to contagious diseases, emergency medical workers face one of the most dangerous and injury-prone jobs in the country, according to researchers and federal workplace safety data. Emergency medical technicians (EMTs), who provide basic life...

www.nbcboston.com

A big part of it is that ambulances don't show up for fun, so people tend to be really stressed out already. And when it involves multiple victims, ambulance staff has to do the traditional triage; who needs help now, who can wait a few minutes. But bystanders are not medically trained, and when they see their wife, or child, lying in a bloody heap on the floor they expect staff to help them immediately. Same with risk of contagion: people aren't experts, people are terrified, so a small number of them will do stupid stuff when they think the ambulance is 'bringing the plague to them'. And some people are simply dingleberries.

Like I said, this is an ongoing common thing, hence citing my own experience from nearly 20 years ago to show its business as usual.

However, I do think in think in times like these penalties for such actions should be more severe to try and deter it going on in a time of crisis.

 

[Ian Skippy]

However, I do think in think in times like these penalties for such actions should be more severe to try and deter it going on in a time of crisis.

For sure. In the Netherlands we have something called 'snelrecht', or 'quick justice' laws. Attacking ambulance staff has been made a 'snelrecht' process during the crises, which means you'll be sentenced and lock up way faster than the normal process (that could take weeks or even months). You still have the same rights, but your case is moved to the top of the pile. Typically these cases are hardly complicated, so sentencing does not take too long when there are dashboard cam vids of you approaching EMS with a knife in your hand while yelling you're going to kill them...

 

[Synkreto]

No, Ebola is not directly via bats. Bats are the reservoir host, but it typically jumps to us via other animals, most notably gorillas. That is one of those things people don't realize: just because [x] is the reservoir, doesnt mean it jumped to us via that species. We don't know if COVID19 came to us directly from bats (evidence suggests it might have been pangolins), we only know that they are involved at some point. Same with Hendra in Australia: horse eats something contaminated with bat urine/feces, horse becomes sick, human treating horse becomes sick. At no point did anyone eat a bat, or a horse.

Hendra is particularly interesting because it shows how an amplifier species works. Bats alone don't have the ability to spread it to humans, they need an amplifier. Same as with foot&mouth disease; many farm animals can get it, but none of them spread it out anywhere close to what pigs do. So once the disease infects a group of pigs, suddenly it jumps from farm to farm way faster than had it only been ruminants.

In addition :

This paper

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Medicine

www.nature.com

under "Theories of SARS - CoV - 2 origins"
states in section 2. Natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer :

It is possible that a progenitor of SARS-CoV-2 jumped into humans, acquiring the genomic features described above through adaptation during undetected human-to-human transmission.[...]This leaves the insertion of polybasic cleavage site to occur during human-to-human transmission.

meaning: SARS - CoV - 2 may actually have mutated in human hosts to be able to kick off the Pandemic .


In section 1. Natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer :

Neither the bat betacoronaviruses nor the pangolin betacoronaviruses sampled thus far have polybasic cleavage sites. Although no animal coronavirus has been identified that is sufficiently similar to have served as the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2, the diversity of coronaviruses in bats and other species is massively undersampled.

Also

The functional consequence of the polybasic cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2 is unknown, and it will be important to determine its impact on transmissibility and pathogenesis in animal models.

( same source - > Notable features of the SARS - CoV - 2 genome -> 2. Polybasic furin cleavage site...)

 

[Han_Zen]

For sure. In the Netherlands we have something called 'snelrecht', or 'quick justice' laws. Attacking ambulance staff has been made a 'snelrecht' process during the crises, which means you'll be sentenced and lock up way faster than the normal process (that could take weeks or even months). You still have the same rights, but your case is moved to the top of the pile. Typically these cases are hardly complicated, so sentencing does not take too long when there are dashboard cam vids of you approaching EMS with a knife in your hand while yelling you're going to kill them...

I didn't sy that. WHM did.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I didn't sy that. WHM did.

Huh, glitch in the matrix. Fixed!

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

For sure. In the Netherlands we have something called 'snelrecht', or 'quick justice' laws. Attacking ambulance staff has been made a 'snelrecht' process during the crises, which means you'll be sentenced and lock up way faster than the normal process (that could take weeks or even months). You still have the same rights, but your case is moved to the top of the pile. Typically these cases are hardly complicated, so sentencing does not take too long when there are dashboard cam vids of you approaching EMS with a knife in your hand while yelling you're going to kill them...

The problem is implementing such a change in the UK would be regarded as a step towards authoritarianism, which kicks of the surreal victim politics nonsense I mentioned a post or two back.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The problem is implementing such a change in the UK would be regarded as a step towards authoritarianism, which kicks of the surreal victim politics nonsense I mentioned a post or two back.

Dont you guys already have something very similar when it comes to football hooliganism?

 

[Synkreto]

re Antibody quick tests :

Corona-Schnelltest: Fakten gegen Halbwahrheiten

Das Berliner Unternehmen PharmACT AG hat sich auf medizinische Schnelltests spezialisiert. Vor Kurzem entwickelte das Pharmaunternehmen einen hochsensiblen Corona-Schnelltest.

healthcare-in-europe.com

( facts vs. halfthruths )

Due to the structure of the page, I can not provide a link to the translated page . Shold be possible to inline rightclick it to translate into english .

 

[Northpin]

In addition :

This paper

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Medicine

www.nature.com

under "Theories of SARS - CoV - 2 origins"
states in section 2. Natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer :

meaning: SARS - CoV - 2 may actually have mutated in human hosts to be able to kick off the Pandemic .


In section 1. Natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer :




Also


( same source - > Notable features of the SARS - CoV - 2 genome -> 2. Polybasic furin cleavage site...)

Don't forget that these are unproven (yet) theories

And the Nature Article ends with:

it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Easter Plan of Doom has been cancelled in the US, a positive development. We should be seeing signs of slowdown in about a week in the affected cities in new cases.

78 cases and 3 deaths so far here. Still manageable, with the lockdown going, and 2 additional hospitals up and running. Was it in time? We'll see in a couple weeks. But this is definitely better than most places.

It is dead quiet, just birds in the park and emergency vehicles operating.

 

[jasonbarron]

Easter was never a "plan" but rather a "hope." Hope is an incredibly important message for us all at this point.

 

[Shadow Quest]

What's this thing some communities have with eating bats anyway? Ebola was also transmitted to people from bats... It's like eating rats. Although in the Congo I can understand that with starvation we don't get to be picky, but was it the case in China, or was it some local bullpoo belief that it enhances virility like their thing with eating tiger testicles?

What you find is that very poor people or People who were very poor but not so much now have fond memories from the past about what is good ,for example when I first went to Portugal a small store in the mountains had a chest freezer with two large boxes one containing Pigs ears and the other Chickens feet the folk would also hunt and eat small song birds ,its a comfort memory from hunger

My gran would make brawn from pigs heads yummy lol

 

[Morbad]

I know it's not the same strain...what I'm saying is that lab, that's in the same area as the recent outbreak, specialises since 2005 in Bat Corona viruses, in 2015 they published a paper on manipulating a bat Corona Virus with a strain of SARS to see if they could make it infect human cells and by all accounts they did. So do you think they've been twiddling their thumbs since 2015? Can you categorically state they did no more research on OTHER strains of Bat Virus investigating whether or not they could be altered to infect humans.

Yes it could be coincidence, but it's NOT just a coincidence of locality, it's coincindence of WHAT they are researching and co-incidence they have already alterered a strain of Bat Corana Virus to infect human cells....once maybe, two is pushing it, THREE co-oncidence? That IMO is Douglas Adams levels of improbability!

The absence of prominent features of SARS-CoV-2 in prior literature is an extreme contraindication for it being what you propose. You're suggesting that they've secretly manipulated the virus in ways that is highly improbable (using novel components that no one else has seen before that weren't turned into scads of papers for publication), for no discernible reason (they wouldn't have wanted a vaccine for it until after it became an issue, unless they were making a weapon, but it would make a crappy basis for a weapon compared to other viruses in the family).

That a virology lab is collecting and performing research on viruses is not even vaguely suspicious, it's a given. Most major virology labs in Asia would have the pathogens you mention. You're still at one flimsy coincidence...a virology lab in Wuhan, which is no evidence of anything. The evidence we do have, you seem to be completely ignoring.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Can we kill the conspiracy theories, until we have hard evidence? This is worse than fleet carriers.

 

[jasonbarron]

. You're still at one flimsy coincidence...a virology lab in Wuhan, which is no evidence of anything. The evidence we do have, you seem to be completely ignoring.

Yeah, correct. Oh, wait, there's also the fact that China never let anyone in to look at the situation in Wuhan, lying to the international community for weeks. Doesn't mean that it was a bio-weapon, but just stop it with this nonsense that we have all (or hardly any) "evidence" on the matter. Conservative estimates are that if the CCP weren't engaging in such a high level cover up for the month directly following the outbreak as much as 95% of the global spread could have been mitigated.

And Ralph, that's not a conspiracy theory. It's a sad, unavoidable fact.

 

[Ian Phillips]

I have a plan for that. Of course when I shared the details of that plan with Mrs Barron she slapped me across the face and said something to the effect of "That's not happening, mister!"

You proposed to do the cooking?

 

[jasonbarron]

You proposed to do the cooking?

Well, I was holding up a bottle of olive oil at the time.