General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Patrick_68000]

W.H.O CAUTION: The new coronavirus is ten times more deadly than the virus responsible for the influenza A (H1N1) which appeared at the end of March 2009 in Mexico and a "slow" deconfinement is needed.

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[Patrick_68000]

United States : A sailor of the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt died on Monday of complications from the Covid-19 on the island of Guam, in the Pacific.

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[GJ51]

Navy Identifies Sailor Lost at Sea from Carrier Lincoln

Aviation Electronics Technician 2nd Class Slayton Saldana was reported overboard July 17.

www.military.com

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

W.H.O CAUTION: The new coronavirus is ten times more deadly than the virus responsible for the influenza A (H1N1) which appeared at the end of March 2009 in Mexico and a "slow" deconfinement is needed.

How are things going in France?

 

[GJ51]

How are things going in France?

Shouldn't you only be asking a "qualified" expert?

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

I guess it's true to say that people can be "ignorant" (in the non-pejorative sense) but, honestly, I still don't think that's the issue.

It's helpful to remind me that some terms carry non literal connotations.
To me-
"Ignorance" is just not knowing. I am spectacularly ignorant. Working on it.
"Arrogance" is just a hierarchical behaviour. We can't easily escape it because primates live in groups, and establish social orders, so it is hard wired.

I'll try to improve the writing. Sorry for causing the offence, which I can now see. Beginning to wonder if this isn't the Asperger's the wife says I have. Maybe. Learning to communicate effectively is an ongoing thing.

 

[GJ51]

It's helpful to remind me that some terms carry non literal connotations.
To me-
"Ignorance" is just not knowing. I am spectacularly ignorant. Working on it.
"Arrogance" is just a hierarchical behaviour. We can't easily escape it because primates live in groups, and establish social orders, so it is hard wired.

I'll try to improve the writing. Sorry for causing the offence, which I can now see. Beginning to wonder if this isn't the Asperger's the wife says I have. Maybe. Learning to communicate effectively is an ongoing thing.

I too apologize if I was piling on a bit, but I do try to approach a topic with an open mind, a wide view, and a healthy dose of skepticism that isn't always appreciated.

I find it hard not to see how much erroneous disinformation surrounds the COVID-19 event and wonder why this has gained so much attention by the world press, while at the same time the flu goes on year after year with little or no attention. No daily big bad bleeding red map. No press coverage.

I'm all for beating back infectious disease, but the economic and social costs should not be ignored. I respect the experts from the medical field, but I don't think they should have the last word on our individual liberties and economic decisions. There input is required and helpful, but I'm not willing to shred the Constitution of my country on their insistence.

The individual can accept responsibility for their own prevention management through education. This is where the press and the gov't can be most helpful.

HTH a bit.

 

[Synkreto]

It's helpful to remind me that some terms carry non literal connotations.
To me-
"Ignorance" is just not knowing. I am spectacularly ignorant. Working on it.
"Arrogance" is just a hierarchical behaviour. We can't easily escape it because primates live in groups, and establish social orders, so it is hard wired.

I'll try to improve the writing. Sorry for causing the offence, which I can now see. Beginning to wonder if this isn't the Asperger's the wife says I have. Maybe. Learning to communicate effectively is an ongoing thing.

In so many communications, I run into the problem of me meaning what I say literally...while people hearing what I say seem to respond not to what I say, but rather to what they "think" I said, or how it made them feel . Does not help that I have a quite clear and literal understanding of many, many words not common language due to classical education ( Latin, Greek, classic humanistic really... ) .

And yes, a few years ago I also started considering that I may simply be a mild case of Aspergers, and just never got diagonsed .

 

[Han_Zen]

Navy Identifies Sailor Lost at Sea from Carrier Lincoln

Aviation Electronics Technician 2nd Class Slayton Saldana was reported overboard July 17.

www.military.com

I feel sorry for these sailors. Space for crew isn’t top priorty, when designing a naval ship. Isolation isn’t an option in many cases. Aircraft carriers practically has double crew. One ship crew and one airport crew. Even If Lincoln is huge, it’s probably not a lot of available cabins onboard.
This is not a cruise ship, where everyone can be isolated in their separate cabins.

 

[Morbad]

Try explaining to somebody that you need the money to prepare for the next epidemic, as you raise their taxes or make cuts to the welfare state, and see what happens.

You imply this was the sort of choice we were faced with.

There is no scenario where investing in prevention is more expensive than even a relatively mild epidemic, nor where the preparations made for a pandemic are more expensive than being unprepared.

In some cases (the US for example), necessary funding was already secured, and then rolled back. In any case, there is little one could spend the money on that would result in better returns.

Stuff that seems like a good idea at one time can seem like huge blunder with hindsight.

Plenty of other things that look like the blunders they actually are right from the moment of their conception that still get funded.

Again, in this case it's not a matter of hindsight, but foresight. We knew what was coming, in general terms, and we (or our political leaders) chose to take the radically more expensive and wasteful option.

I find it hard not to see how much erroneous disinformation surrounds the COVID-19 event and wonder why this has gained so much attention by the world press, while at the same time the flu goes on year after year with little or no attention. No daily big bad bleeding red map. No press coverage.

The same reason anything novel gains so much attention. Just look at Columbine or 9/11. Influenza is a chronic problem and chronic problems are not novel.

COVID-19 is easy to hype up because it is actually a serious problem, with serious repercussions, whose effects have been greatly amplified by neglect. It's novelty will still wear off in short order.

I'm all for beating back infectious disease, but the economic and social costs should not be ignored.

The only time the economic and social costs were ignored was when warnings weren't heeded. They've been a key concern of policy decisions after the fact.

I respect the experts from the medical field, but I don't think they should have the last word on our individual liberties and economic decisions. There input is required and helpful, but I'm not willing to shred the Constitution of my country on their insistence.

You're blaming the messengers, and the honest reality of the message, for the decisions of political leaders.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

I feel sorry for these sailors. Space for crew isn’t top priorty, when designing a naval ship. Isolation isn’t an option in many cases. Aircraft carriers practically has double crew. One ship crew and one airport crew. Even If Lincoln is huge, it’s probably not a lot of available cabins onboard.
This is not a cruise ship, where everyone can be isolated in their separate cabins.

If you read the article, its not about the corona cases.

This is a chap who fell overboard in mid July.

Anyone wanting to find out what life is like on a carrier for a JR:

How Aircraft Carriers Work

Life on an aircraft carrier may be cramped and difficult but residents have everything they need to live. Learn about daily life on an aircraft carrier.

science.howstuffworks.com

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

@GJ51
We are good, man.

I predicted the event and the economic disaster, to a degree. Damned if I know what to do now...
This is well above my pay grade. Which is zero, these days.

A major problem is individual action, everywhere. Hindus are attacking Muslims in India, for instance. We had a sudden spate of murders and people arrested for animal cruelty of all things, locally.

As things get more tense, the social breakdown might prove a major problem in excess of the epidemic. People are running out of resources. But if the lockdowns get lifted, what then?

 

[GJ51]

@GJ51
As things get more tense, the social breakdown might prove a major problem in excess of the epidemic. People are running out of resources. But if the lockdowns get lifted, what then?

Life goes on

And the universe unfolds, as it should

 

[Synkreto]

I too apologize if I was piling on a bit, but I do try to approach a topic with an open mind, a wide view, and a healthy dose of skepticism that isn't always appreciated.

I find it hard not to see how much erroneous disinformation surrounds the COVID-19 event and wonder why this has gained so much attention by the world press, while at the same time the flu goes on year after year with little or no attention. No daily big bad bleeding red map. No press coverage.

I'm all for beating back infectious disease, but the economic and social costs should not be ignored. I respect the experts from the medical field, but I don't think they should have the last word on our individual liberties and economic decisions. There input is required and helpful, but I'm not willing to shred the Constitution of my country on their insistence.

The individual can accept responsibility for their own prevention management through education. This is where the press and the gov't can be most helpful.

HTH a bit.

Erroneous Information starts where there is no clear distinction being made between the Virus SARS - CoV -2, and the disease it causes - CoViD -19 . The Virus kills more people than those who die to CoViD -19 .

What if, in case of a Pandemic, it is not the Constitutional lawyers, nor the Economists, but, well...the Epidemiologists and Virologists who actually have the BEST Ideas of what to do to keep the impact of the Pandemic as minimal as possible ?

Not wanting to point any fingers re individual responsibility . But lets not forget intial responses of many people along the Lines of "I dont care, it only kills old and sick people, Ima go partying !" . One of the things that became painfully obvious in the first days of the Pandemic in several countries was the pure inability of many individuals to accept that their decisions and behaviour do have effects on other people . Even more saddening when one accepts that this is not only so in times of a Pandemic .

 

[GJ51]

Erroneous Information starts where there is no clear distinction being made between the Virus SARS - CoV -2, and the disease it casues - CoViD -19 . The Virus kills more people than those who die to CoViD -19 .

What if, in case of a Pandemic, it is not the Constitutional lawyers, nor the Economists, but, well...the Epidemiologists and Virologists who actually have the BEST Ideas of what to do to keep the impact of the Pandemic as minimal as possible ?

Not wanting to point any fingers re individual responsibility . But lets not forget intial responses of many people along the Lines of "I dont care, it only kills old and sick people, Ima go partying !" . One of the things that became painfully obvious in the first days of the Pandemic in several countries was the pure inability of many individuals to accept that their decisions and behaviour do have effects on other people . Even more saddening when one accepts that this is not only so in times of a Pandemic .

For me, the more rational focus is what do I do in order to cope with the situation. We can have all these wonderful speculative discussions, but it won't change the fact the each one of us has to hold ourselves accountable for our individual behaviors. Avoiding large dense crowds and practicing good hygiene shouldn't be too difficult for anyone. Is it foolproof? No. But it is rational.

My life is little changed as I have been doing these things for years.

More importantly - why do so many live paycheck to paycheck and have no reserve savings for the unexpected? At any income level, unless you're in extreme poverty with no access to a secure financial system that insures your savings in a sound banking system, it's not too difficult to save a minimum of 10% of what you earn to build up at least 6 months worth of cash to cover an emergency situation.

And now watch everyone on their computer or cell phone tell me I'm the crazy one who has no idea what I'm talking about...

If you don't plan ahead, you'll never be prepared.

 

[Red Anders]

You might be on to something. I think what everyone needs to do right now is just watch this video and send up a thank you to the genius who invented air conditioning:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQqZg5BisE&list=RDGVQqZg5BisE&start_radio=1

I guess you had to make a couple of good points eventually

 

[Stealthie]

There is no scenario where investing in prevention is more expensive than even a relatively mild epidemic, nor where the preparations made for a pandemic are more expensive than being unprepared.

The issue isn't whether investing in preparation is more or less expensive than dealing with a disaster.
The issue is whether it's viable for a government to spend huge heaps of money on disaster preparation instead of more immediate concerns such as welfare, education, industry and the environment - all things that activists were, until very recently, howling were "the most important thing".

Let's face it; everything from wars and earthquakes to fires and floods are inevitable, sooner or later, but if a government invested sufficient funding to prepare adequately for every possible disaster, our nations would be bankrupt.

 

[GJ51]

I guess you had to make a couple of good points eventually

It must have been really cold...

 

[Ian Phillips]

Boys.... behave

 

[GJ51]

You imply this was the sort of choice we were faced with.

There is no scenario where investing in prevention is more expensive than even a relatively mild epidemic, nor where the preparations made for a pandemic are more expensive than being unprepared.

In some cases (the US for example), necessary funding was already secured, and then rolled back. In any case, there is little one could spend the money on that would result in better returns.



Plenty of other things that look like the blunders they actually are right from the moment of their conception that still get funded.

Again, in this case it's not a matter of hindsight, but foresight. We knew what was coming, in general terms, and we (or our political leaders) chose to take the radically more expensive and wasteful option.



The same reason anything novel gains so much attention. Just look at Columbine or 9/11. Influenza is a chronic problem and chronic problems are not novel.

COVID-19 is easy to hype up because it is actually a serious problem, with serious repercussions, whose effects have been greatly amplified by neglect. It's novelty will still wear off in short order.



The only time the economic and social costs were ignored was when warnings weren't heeded. They've been a key concern of policy decisions after the fact.



You're blaming the messengers, and the honest reality of the message, for the decisions of political leaders.

Why don't you and I just agree that we don't agree on what the word logic means?