Changing sticks is hard

After 2 1/2 years with X52, I changed to twin Virpil MongoosT-50s. The setup was relatively straightforward, but learning the new button layouts and sorting out all the bindings was a nightmare. It was like being a beginner all over again; however, after a few months, the new muscle memory took over and I've been very happy for the last 2 years. Unfortunately, the Virpil CM2 throttle kept calling out to me from its web page until I finally cracked and ordered one with the Delta flight-stick. This has led to two days of sheer frustration. Nothing is straight-forward anymore.

Most of the buttons on the throttle didn't work because ED can only handle 32. The solution is to use Joystick Gremlins, which doesn't work until you've installed Vjoy. After lots of messing about, I finally got that sorted, so, full of excitement, I was ready to try them out. From past experience, I know it's not a good idea to start the game with new sticks, so I opened the training. Immediately, my ship was spinning wildly out of control, so I had to close it and go back to setup. AFAICS, it was only the right stick main axes that were malfunctioning. Buttons and analogue head-look were fine. The Virpil calibration software showed everything centred, but the Joystick Gremlins showed the axes fully at one end. After many hours of trawling through forums and Youtube videos, I finally found the answer, that you have to do a Windows 10 Joystick calibration as well.

Finally, everything was working as it should, so back to the training. After 10 minutes, and a couple of visits back to the bindings to reverse axes, I'm wondering why I had spent all that money to send me back to beginner mode. Chasing down that harmless Sidewinder was really hard.

Last night, I did nothing more than travel from station to station. I must have had to interrupt it about 50 times to redo bindings when I could see that the keys that seemed logical on paper were impractical, until after 4 hours or so, I have something that seems to be workable. I think it's going to take a long time to get the muscle memory for the 11 axes, 9 hats, 5 encoders and 39 other switches. Just about every one of them is bound to something, and I haven't done the bindings for the SLF, camera or DSS yet. Now I can't play without having to make frequent reference to my crib-sheet.

Was it all worth it? Not at the moment, but we'll see in a month's time. My only thoughts so far is that twin sticks are better for combat and throttles are better for non-combat.

Changing sticks is a bit like playing Ed. There are loads of things they don't tell you about that you need to know and do, then you go through all the frustration of figuring out how it all works, and finally, you get it all figured out and you want to try something new.

I've had one other problem once. I dropped out of supercruise and the screen flashed continuously for a few minutes while I was locked out of everything. When it stopped, everything was back to normal. I hope it doesn't do that in the middle of combat. Does anybody know what causes that?
 
The Virpil is a quality piece of kit, congrats. I've been using a Cougar for nearly twenty years now. I have two actually, one with the Evenstrain titanium gimbals and one with the NXT mod. I can only imagine how I'd get along with trying to switch sticks after so much time. Not only do you have to remap everything, which is a chore in itself, but you have to get acclimated to a whole different feel and that's not easy. I see you on Inara and that you're in the top ten all-time bounty kills, which means you have thousands of hours with the X52, so I know it's gotta be a difficult transition. Good hunting.
 
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I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Virpil CM2 throttle. I do wish there was a way to "get both" such that I could have the throttle and it's thumbstick for everything but combat and use a second stick for throttle too just for fighting but overall I love that device. I do OK in combat to with the thumbstick as my up/down, left/right thrust and the main handle as fwd/rev. One thing you might consider. If you shave off some of the travel at the top/bottom of the throttle I find it keeps your hand in a much more comfortable position to use all the back buttons and slider. This is as easy as not running it through the full range in calibration.

Also, the device comes with an option to split into two virtual devices of 32 buttons. I use this instead of loading joystick gremlin and all that associated stuff. I prefer the cleaner more direct mapping although JG has advantages too. I am running a beta firmware version to support that. The older firmware was SLOW to react to buttons on the virtual device sso that grip buttons were fine but the buttons and encoders on the base had to be pressed longer to be picked up.

And yes... a new stick makes you feel like a novice all over again. I'm going to be right there with ya when my Alpha grip finally gets here.
 
It takes me several days of playing with a new set up to get comfortable with it, and weeks before it becomes seconds nature, and I've had plenty of changes in kit to find out. Currently using a Gunfighter 3 and X-56 Throttle. Going to the Gunfight from the X-56 stick I found the quality gimbal was actually the hardest thing to adjust to, but now I can't imagine going back.

The other crazy thing about muscle memory, is how you can have not done something for years and find it is still there. A while back I picked up a game I hadn't played for 7 years, set up a bunch of bindings, then in the heat of the moment during some combat I found myself smashing a key I didn't have bound. My brain was telling my finger to do something it hadn't done for 7 years while ignoring the training of the last few days of playing with that ability bound to something else.
 
I feel the pain. I recently went from XB1 controller to the Hotas One, after roughly 1200 hours logged in the game.

I felt like a baby giraffe trying to stand for the first time. I was at the point with the XB1 controller where I could essentially fly trade runs with one hand.

I love the Hotas, and it’s been a fun to be able to use a lot more control over the thrust. But it has been a lot harder to transition than I thought
 
I changed from a Thrustmaster T-16000 (excellent value fine control stick, flickery twist yaw) to a VKB Gladiator (the cheap base) with a Space sim grip (the base is brilliant & I don't feel I bought a 'cheap one' at all, the grip is ergonomically flawed & the controls are quite heavy, particularly twist yaw). Swapping over the stick took a few hours to adapt to, one control (swap firegroups in my case) took much longer to get used to, I tried lots of different button assignments before finding one that I was happy with.

But swapping the throttle design was much, much harder for me, I've ended up sticking with the Thrustmaster TWCS because it's design is brilliant (and I am used to it) even though build quality lets it down & I've gone through five of the damned things over the past few years (I play a lot).
 
I've recently gone from KB+M to HOTAS after about 2500hrs clocked up.

Interesting in itself but I also fly 100% FA-off... now that makes it very interesting!
 
I made a few minor changes to my KBM setup, such as moved most combat functions to my game mouse. After practice, practice, practice I engaged my first PvP combat and it was like I hadn't practiced at all. Muscle memory under stress uses different neuro pathways than muscle memory with no stress. Since that was last year, my new setup is more efficient and quicker than hunting for keys on the keyboard. If I were to try and switch to a Joystick setup at this point, I'm sure it would be back to "harmless" mode for me.
 
Sounds like you have a great new setup. I've been looking at those throttle units and salivating.

I experienced the same thing moving to my own new setup last fall ( VKB Gladiator II w/SCG handle ) from the T16000 and throttle. You get a new setup, and you change maps, try it out and immediately find out what worked on paper is totally useless. So you tweak, test fly it, tweak, test fly.. it takes weeks sometimes for all the sub-menu items : Cameras, SRV, Menus, modes.. ED has a LOT of button maps. You are certainly correct that muscle memory makes things hard at the start. That's mandatory when you have the headset on.

Make sure to back up your custom map !

After using VJOY for a bit, I ended up mapping the "+32" buttons to keyboard keys. Don't know if your controller software allows for that, but it made things much easier from a mapping standpoint.

I wonder if anyone has recorded another experienced CMDR trying to use another's custom rig ? Each one of us tweaks our own setups to personal tastes to such an extreme that any other CMDR would be totally lost. It might be funny to see.
 
I just switched to the T16000 from HotasX and I am back to being harmless at combat again trying to learn the new layout lol. I gave my daughter the X for her setup because it has center detent on the throttle and fewer buttons to get confused on. I had to do the velcro mod on the TWCS throttle to "feel" center and just set the pinky button to set throttle to zero for flying but the SRV I use forward only with reverse mapped.
I've had it for a few weeks and still struggle at times. I do like having all the extra buttons for my flight sims though so worth the pain so far.
 
Recently switched from an ancient and failing x52pro setup to twin T16000m sticks. Setting up the new binds was a serious time sink but I'm having a blast learning FAoff whilst mining, so much more intuitive with twins!

Muscle memory still not quite there yet though, got interdicted by a player whilst hauling 150+ tons of LTDs, wound up zeroing thrust, dropping shields and losing a dozen tons of cargo before I figured out how to High wake again! :D
 
I changed from a Thrustmaster T-16000 (excellent value fine control stick, flickery twist yaw) to a VKB Gladiator (the cheap base) with a Space sim grip (the base is brilliant & I don't feel I bought a 'cheap one' at all, the grip is ergonomically flawed & the controls are quite heavy, particularly twist yaw). Swapping over the stick took a few hours to adapt to, one control (swap firegroups in my case) took much longer to get used to, I tried lots of different button assignments before finding one that I was happy with.

But swapping the throttle design was much, much harder for me, I've ended up sticking with the Thrustmaster TWCS because it's design is brilliant (and I am used to it) even though build quality lets it down & I've gone through five of the damned things over the past few years (I play a lot).
The flickery twist yaw is a correctible design flaw. See this post:

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/9h5va3/t16000_yaw_fixed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x


I have three of these sticks, all of them developed the same problem and all of them were fixed following this guy's advice.
 
I've changed sticks several times from the X52Pro to ... to the T.Flight HOTAS, to the T16000m and the best contoller change I've made in all of that is to start using voice command macros. Now, with the voice commands working as well as they do, I hardly ever use worry about relearning a ton of stuff when I switch from stick to stick.
 
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