So why do they feel the need to push a ‘new’ tracking app onto everyone then?
General / Off-Topic The safest place
- Thread starter Robin of Spiritwood
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As somebody said, right at the start of this thing; "We can't allow the cure to become worse than the disease".
As a rule, I tend to think that the initial responses to things are the most "honest" ones.
Once people have time to consider a situation, they have time to think-up things that are justifiable... but also just coincidentally happen to have all sorts of secondary benefits.
You enact laws intended to, for example, suppress undesirable elements and then all you've got to do is label anybody as "undesirable" and you have the power to suppress them.
We've already burned that bridge, in the UK, and it's already coming back to bite us on the butt.
I wouldn't be surprised if the newly enacted laws relating to C19 end up being ammended into general "Emergency Protocol" laws rather than being repealed completely, thus giving any government the power to inflict a lockdown on the people if they officially declare an "Emergency".
That might not seem like a big deal now but we might feel differently when some local-authority decides to declare an "Emergency" in order to prevent some protest or other.
I should also say, I've spent over 20 years as an active member of the BASC and Sportsman's Association in the UK, dealing with government (both Labour & Conservative) officials regarding UK firearm laws and I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could throw them.
Its why the EU already draw lines as to what member states can do. For example, no 'implicit consent' allowed: people have to explicitly agree to using the app and they cannot be forced either directly or indirectly ("if you dont use the app you cant use public transport!" for example). No good for countries not part of the EU though... :/
Just checking....
No stakeholder of any influence in the US has any interest in it. It is only Putin and a bunch of American losers who peddle the notion. No offense intended to those who peddled the notion here earlier.
I think there is still very, very gross underestimation of what this Virus, and the Pandemic, really are . How dangerous this really is . And I do know for a fact that quite a lot of people who all have opinions and Ideas about what is appropriate and what is not ( they call it "Deomcracy", or "Freedom" to have these Ideas and communicate them ) really have NO CLUE that it could become much, much worse...anytime . AND do also aboslutely neglect the fact that, for huge parts of the world, it already IS much, much worse than what they are experiencing .
If all the rest you write above is true, "Democracy" has already, and is failing in your country . I do know this is so in the country I live in . But that does not hinder me to understand how a tracking app can/will/would be really usefull. Btw., anyone opposing this ever considered you can simply uninstall the app ? Oh wait, maybe you cant . Or maybe they make it so that you THINK you uninstalled it, but in reality...
Opposing that app. is being the guy on the Horse riding towards windmills . Your mobile phone can listen even when "turned off"...the camera can look, too...soo...ummm...what are we talking about again ? I know what I am talking about : IF a given government decides tracking becomes absolutely necessary, but can not implement it transparently in the open - so that people can for instance reverse engineer the code, can decide whether they want to use it or not - they WILL do it, anyways . In "secret" . As mentioned above, it actually can generally be done NOW, without much hazzle, for a LOT of people .
So what exactly is this discussion about ?
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Hmmm...if you ask this question to yourself, what answer(s) can you come up with ?
We live in an age where everything can happen even the most improbable things.
Although I don't want it for the United States, this big country.
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The EU didn't do a lot to prevent various things being misused or subverted while Britain was a member.
Trouble with laws is that they always have caveats and the people who draft laws are always aware that they can invoke those caveats whenever it suits them to - even if the reasons aren't related to the overt reasons for the law existing in the first place.
I think a plan is wanted. Not necessarily a rush out of lockdown. You know, a plan which is public and scientific. Not going to be based upon a political idea to save a few more bucks for a few billionaires sort of plan.
But yeah, we’ve got quite a biased media for sure in the uk which has their own agenda.
Wearing a mask in public is now part of the unnecessary and imaginary "culture war" in the US.
Further comment withheld, it accordance with forum policyand absolutely not for any other reason.
Now ranked #1 in the world by the Oxford group assessing readiness to move out of lockdown. So some good news. It would be better if our flyspeck island actually mattered globally, but maybe somebody might copy what we did.
Got medical tests tomorrow. I expect my internal organs to perform at Wakandan levels. But they never listen to me.
Further comment withheld, it accordance with forum policy
Now ranked #1 in the world by the Oxford group assessing readiness to move out of lockdown. So some good news. It would be better if our flyspeck island actually mattered globally, but maybe somebody might copy what we did.
Got medical tests tomorrow. I expect my internal organs to perform at Wakandan levels. But they never listen to me.
I can see it would do some good but I’m just not into giving a government a legal reason to track everyone. Let them continue doing it covertly and illegally if they feel the need
The main reason a plan is wanted is so the other people can rip it apart and complain about it, it’s going to get political whatever happens, in fact this thing has been political point scoring from the start. I think it was said a long time ago in this thread. No one really has any idea of how to deal with things and are just winging it as it evolves. I guess one good thing about being behind the European curve is that we can watch what happens there and try to avoid any screw ups that may occur
Interesting data observation:
Privacy is a big concern of mine. Even the most well intentioned data collection is subject to abuse, either by the parties doing the collecting, or whoever manages to inherit or steal said data.
I would certainly never be able to just assume the data from a COVID-19 tracking application would only be used for epidemiological purposes, even if that is the wholly honest intent. The only truly private data, over the long run, is data that hasn't been collected.
Yes.
Google, Apple, Microsoft, et al...for quite some time their primary businesses have been collecting, analyzing, and repackaging/selling user data.
I have never owned a smartphone and would never deign to own any portable phone that didn't have a removable battery; give me one and I'm selling it or destroying it. I normally don't carry the ancient phone I have.
I have no credit or debit cards and haven't in almost twenty years. I haven't made a purchase in my own name in at least as long. When I need something, I pay in cash, kind, or well-mixed crypto...or just use someone else's credentials.
I usually access the internet via proxy, especially when I'm traveling. It's also been more than a decade since I've traveled via any non-private conveyance; I never intend to set foot on a commercial airliner, or any bus or train, ever again. If it requires identification, it's out.
I have zero interest in adopting what I find to be the worst aspects of the 21st century and until I find my existence threatened by avoiding these things, I will. Fortunately, we're a long way from that.
Some may need to doubt the efficacy, or intent, of something before they can justify opposing it. Others may acknowledge the benefits, but be misinformed as to the threat of not heeding recommendations. The rest may simply value other things.
Like you, I have zero doubt that such data is extremely useful for, and I believe those advocating such tracking are earnest in, mitigating outbreaks.
However, there are things I value more than containment. I would kill to maintain my privacy and relative anonymity, as I believe these are fundamental prerequisites to the exercise of one's freedom. It's worth more to me than the collective lives of every single human I have never met, and most of the ones I have. So, that's why I will not submit to having my movement (or in this case, non-movement) tracked. If that privacy was the price for mitigation, the price would be too high.
Of course, in my case, not being tracked isn't harming mitigation efforts. My wife, dog, and I haven't been within 30 feet of any one else in over forty days, except through a closed door when they drop stuff off on our porch. I am not a risk to anyone with regards to COVID-19. I can and I will isolate as long as it is prudent to do so. I don't need anyone babysitting me though, and I will not comply with any recommendation or order I believe crosses the lines I have drawn.
A huge portion of cases are asymptomatic. You can look and feel perfectly fine and still infect others. That's why testing is so important.
Knowing who is infected is the only way targeted isolation can work. Shutting down vast swaths of society can be effective, but robust testing measures would be more effective with fewer side-effects.
The (UK) govt has already said the app will be 1) optional and 2) open source. So people can check what it is doing and don't have to install it (there will be a strong social pressure to install it, but that's how a lot of laws get 'enforced' here). Doesn't stop some people getting paranoid, as you are seeing from some of the replies. (And as you point out - anyone carrying around a mobile phone should be aware that they can be tracked already...)
I wore a mask while grocery shopping tonight.
It took me half an hour to get the groceries decontaminated.
Our state, Missouri, is relaxing restrictions on Monday. May Elvis have mercy...many individual establishments like banks and grocery stores are already stating they will maintain full precautions.
It took me half an hour to get the groceries decontaminated.
Our state, Missouri, is relaxing restrictions on Monday. May Elvis have mercy...many individual establishments like banks and grocery stores are already stating they will maintain full precautions.
True, yet here we all are spilling the beans, freely avaiable for anyone with an ISP
Those days of privacy are dead. Even if you try to. The only "safe" place to keep a secret is in your brain, and honestly I'm not even sure that I like secrets in general. I'm more of a truth-guy (with an urgent demand for privacy). Those paradoxes can drive you to the edge of insanity once in a while.
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If the numbers seem outrageously skewed... what is the likelihood that they were manufactured to achieve an agenda? Go figure!!
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