Choosing a new headset

[He$$eeTant]

Cmds….Looking for your valuable input that may not be present in online mainstream reviews. I am a long term user of the Rift CV1 and until recently was happy to just wait for the next perfect HMD, I classify the areas that interest me below. However I had a scare when my Rift went black on me... I got it all back there was a driver / software clash but it got me thinking I dont want to be without an HMD so what should I get to replace the CV1 (I will keep the CV1 as back up / for Oculus titles)

So below are my musings I think I've narrowed it down to two but i've not bought anything yet (actually cancelled the Index a couple of weeks ago) and now I feel like a rabbit in the headlights of an oncoming car! The choices I thought about but have not included are Rift S, Rift Quest, Samsung Odyssey, HP Reverb. Both Reverb and Odyssey where near contenders Odyssey lost on comfort and the Reverb lost on controllers and software, both lost on WMR vs ASW. Rift S lost on Black levels and Sound, Quest does seem close but ultimately does not play all the games I have (Xplane, ED, Alyx etc)

So below is my list of items Ive narrowed down as worth thinking about along with why and the plus and minus of each HMD. I know that ED is a sitting only game but I also do small room scale stuff as well so tracking and controllers are key.

SOFTWARE

• ASW or equivalent
• Environment, updates, useable, settings

ASW - Super important to fill the gaps where perormance FPS drops.
Environment - both Steam and Oculus seem good

+ Vive Pro, CV1
? Index

COMFORT
Very important for hours of play

+ Vive Pro, Index, CV1


CONTROLLERS
Need these to play games so are important. Rift CV1 are excellent and seem to have complete support across all games.
Both Index and Vive Pro can share controllers so no winner or looser.

Not sure either Knuckles (build quality/support) or Wands (Usability/Weight/Battery Life) are as good as
CV1 touch controllers.

SWEETSPOT
Can niggle when your off centre so no smaller than the CV1

? for both

TRACKING
Inside Out
Sensors
Dont care as long as it works, but it has to work, I play in bright sunlight and through to darkness. Often pull the CV1 off only to find I am I a dark room.

+ Vive Pro, Index, CV1


RESOLUTION
I dont have an issue with this, I use a SS Rift CV1

+ Vive Pro, Index, CV1


PANEL TYPE
LCD
OLED
I dont know what LCD is like, I appreciate OLED for its colour and depth
+ Vive Pro, CV1
? Index

I did read that in a comparison with SS CV1 vs Normal Vive Pro, the reviewers preferred the Vive Pro color depth.

FOV
Used to the ~100deg of Rift, 110 or greater sounds nice

+ Vive Pro, Index
CV1 less but I am used to it


SOUND
Very important for immersion and to not annoy the household
+ Vive Pro, CV1
- Index (Stand off small speakers not earphones)


WIRELESS
Not an issue

+ Vive Pro (at cost you can buy wireless)
- Index


BUILD QUALITY
Its a tough environment when playing and moving around. Plus your always cleaning the lenses. If the lenses collapse
of their dust shields break or the headset falls apart then your into repairs or a new HMD

- Index Report of lens protectors pull away from lenses smearing glue and then not protecting lenses, QC issues on Knuckles.
+ CV1, Vive Pro

 

[LutzBY]

As a Rift S i can give you some feedback.
+Good contorollers and tracking. Despite i play mostly Elite, its good to have ability to play nice VR games with no hassle.
+Convinient setup. One cable, and thats all. No need in lighthouses and their wires.
+In a current market situatuion i payed well over RRP, but Rift s is still a "cheap" headsed
+-Oculus soft is good and user friendly, but it conflicts with Elite launcher resulting in error cascade. And generally it not very convinient to have oculus home+steam+ed launcher etc.
+-I definately can say that image quality is much better then OG Vive, but i dunno how it stacks up with modern headseds. U will definately get godrays and greyish blacks.
-Build quality and materials. Its quite an expencive piece of hardware, but built like used xbox, with panel gaps and cheap plastic
-i suppose IPD can be an issue
-Fit. Despite "halo strap" is kinda convinient to use, ridiculously cheap face gasket, and overall bulky build made it not very suitable for long sessions and not so conmfy. It not weight much, but front heavy and requires precise adjustment.

My guess is that Reverb is the best consumer HMD for Elite. Just for its resolution, it have many downsides, and if you want to play something more than Elite or Microsoft office i ll skip that. Index is probably the best overall. Downside is the huge sticker price, outside tracking, and for Elite - weight is a major drawback
Vive and Cosmos - not sure, i thing HTC is now totally crazy with their price/quality/features ratio

 

[TorTorden_VR]

As far as I'm concerned there are two major headsets right now, the Index or the S, the index is only sold in very select countries, mine as well, so I have never been able to get one.
Or the S, I pre-ordered the S first hour it was out, same as I did with the CV1.

LCD panels can look as good as OLED, in fact compared to the CV1 my S is far sharper in motion, and just fine in colours or contrast, with none of the mura (off colour pixels, most often green) noise that plagues OLED panels.
And the addition of a non pentile display makes the small increase in resolution far more visible than you would think, no need to run a green hud anymore for instance.
Slight decrease in black level depth, but overall the move from OLED to fast-switching LCD's was a massive upgrade.
Oculus themselves has for instance stated that the only reason these screens wasn't around when they finalised that part of the Quest design.

Reverb is ok, but has quality issues, and is really only functional for sims, for regular motion or VR games I really can't recommend it due to tracking issues.

If you are exclusively playing flight and racing games then sure go ahead, but it is a couple of $100 more than an S.

As far as I can tell the S is 95% of the index for half the price, the only deal breake is the potential of IPD issues, but so far 80% or so or more, doesn't have an issue.
To me the natural IPD in the S is perfect.

The pimax, I can tell is a piece of , I never should have backed that kickstarter, complete waste of money and utterly, utterly garbage.
Paired off with a company that's basically feeding rubbish and lofty promises until they have your money, then they will ignore you.

 

[LutzBY]

the index is only sold in very select countries, mine as well

True, eastern europe cant get Index too, but thats not the major case - Valve just can't keep up with demand, and in other major countries you cant buy it straight away as well.

As far as I can tell the S is 95% of the index for half the price, the only deal breake is the potential of IPD issues, but so far 80% or so or more, doesn't have an issue.
To me the natural IPD in the S is perfect.

Yep, Rift's IPD is just fine for me, but TS need to check his own IPD, to see if it fits rift's tolerances.
But may i disagree with you on "95%" statement - i suppose 120/144 Hz is a huge deal, compared to rift's subpar 80, if any GPU(s) setup can actually handle Elite in 120 Hz.
On Index subject im more concerned about that lighthouse situation and HMD weight. And of course price and avialability. Im excited to hear feedback from actual Index users, who play Elite, not some Beat Saber

The pimax, I can tell is a piece of poopoo, I never should have backed that kickstarter, complete waste of money and utterly, utterly garbage.
Paired off with a company that's basically feeding rubbish and lofty promises until they have your money, then they will ignore you.

Wow, i thought "2nd gen" pimaxes are decent

Actually i forgot to mention S's pathetic worthless sound, its like you strap two damadged siemens CX75s above your ears. But i personally never use build-in audio - my good old plantronics 788 fits just fine above halo strap, and otherwise i use 2.0 large speakers.

 

[Kyokushin]

HP Reverb only. There is no point to buy low-resolution headset in 2020.
You may also wait for Reverb 2 or get Pimax 8kX (if you need hardware IPD).

You may find my review of Reverb here:

HP Reverb - my conclusion

Dear Ladies and Gentlemans, I would like to share my humble opinion about HP Reverb PRO. At first, i would like to say - i am 'in' VR world since 2014, smartphone gogles, tracking solutions, i played in most of existing headsets (Oculus, vive pro, etc), and in last year i head Acer VR and...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Alec Turner]

What are your must have games (besides Elite) ... as that may or may not also be a limiting factor I guess. For example, any Oculus exclusives? I'd be really sad for example if I couldn't play Lone Echo 2 (when it comes out), Stormland plus also things like Half Life Alyx, Robo Recall, etc. For example, I've heard great things about the Reverb from a purely technical playing ED viewpoint but could I easily play Stormland, Lone Echo or Half Life Alyx on it?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

The sound was always , was always going to be on these. I just use my regular cans I barely tested the included audio solution on the rift.

I actually find the Halo band more accommodating to my over ear headphones than anything else.
On ears are also no issue.
I have tested this with g500 Logitech cans, some NAD over ear music phones, and hyper x over ears. All working fine and comfortably.

As for 120hz vs 80hz it's a moot point.
Even those on i9's and 2080tis can't use it any thing much more demanding than beat saber.
The only people I know that set it to 120hz are those who's actually aiming for 60hz with interpolation.

And comparing to the cv1 the 80 in the s feels closer to 100+, the oleds in the cv1 are so slow it's as if the entire image is running motion blur constantly.

With the pimax 5k plus I had lower pixels per degree than the S, the lenses on the pimax zoom in on the very center and all the extended fov of what the rift gives is on a part of the lens that is never in focus.

So to get comparatively the same fidelity I get in the S at hmd-q 1x in 5k+ that also needs parralax correction I would need the equivalent of supersampling to over hmdq 2.
Seriously we have directions on the forums there describing how to expand the 4k render limit per eye in steamvr or everything would look like garbage.

Not to mention everytime I wanted to use it it was ten minutes of troubleshooting and rebooting various services.

And with elite I might get 30fps, at best at far lower settings than I ever had in the cv1, even when running a 980ti.
Just supercruising innempty spsce was interpolated, and that was at 72hz, no way it would maintain 45fps for motion smoothing. Unlike Oculus, it will turn off all interpolation if you can't maintain that minimum.

That is all after having spend 4 months getting my doa 5k+ replaced, I eventually had to ship it out of pocket after digging the right address to ship it too.
Not to mention to get any traction on a ticket with pimax was file it., Wait a week.
Then post something on their forums about it. That would get you a reply.
Also they completely failed to mark the return shipment as a repair so I had to pay taxes on it, twice.

And even all that aside.
It was the least comfortable hmd I have ever worn.
Just trying it on scratched a lens on my glasses, which fit no problem in the S. In addition there is an in hmd latency, this is worse on the ones employing upscaling but also on the 5k+, where if you move your head, the image takes a split second to catch up and start moving, for those who notice, this is incredibly off putting.

Last I heard they aren't recognizing the issue even though it's replicsted by anyone who notice it, and there are high-speed through the lens video of it.

No I gave it s month, and basically all titles I use VR in was unplayable in it. I ended up hooking up the cv1 and I actually enjoyed games again.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

What are your must have games (besides Elite) ... as that may or may not also be a limiting factor I guess. For example, any Oculus exclusives? I'd be really sad for example if I couldn't play Lone Echo 2 (when it comes out), Stormland plus also things like Half Life Alyx, Robo Recall, etc. For example, I've heard great things about the Reverb from a purely technical playing ED viewpoint but could I easily play Stormland, Lone Echo or Half Life Alyx on it?

Half life alyx wouldn't be an issue since it's steam vr.

I honestly haven't tried revive myself but from what I hear it is playable though that, but the reverb controllers are just WMR controllers and has far less efficient tracking than even the S so any experience there might be "milage may vary".

As for stormlands I found it very overhyped, I played through the main storyline, which is like 1/3 of the game. But I found no need to keep going through the randomized end game stuff.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

In short the hmd I can recommend as an overall package, is the Oculus.
The only drawback is the IPD issue.
And assuming you will be using a separate set of headphones.
I honestly consider the cv1 audio unfit for purpose as well.

As far as priceige point, hardware and particular software, Oculus is a head in front of the rest in terms of polish.

With the rift I can put it on, expect it to work.
Click a button that displays a huge dekstop view, launch all programs, setup my discord etc, etc.
And while playing, my desktop view that also includes real world passthrough is but a click away. Makes checking eddb prices a breeze, no need to even lift the hmd.

The passthrough sure helps to see if the cat is destroying the apartment, or just playing with his toys.

Everytime I have tried something similar with a steamvr hmd it's been a giant crashy pain, best I could get was using voice attack to start a virtual desktop application, and alt-tab focus between it and my game.
It would crash one out of five times.
At best. It's been awhile since I tested this, but then again steamvr had a bug left in since pre release of Vive in 2016 still in in summer 2019.

And even though we can both probably agree that the index seems like a great option it's availability is lacking to say the least. And even though it's got aggressive specs there is no team major difference between it and first gen.
It's just more. Like a PS4 pro vs PS4.

Next gen headsets is most likely be featuring some rather novel stuff, Valves founder Gabe says he's looking into brain interconnectivity, some real matrix level stuff. Oculus is already rumored to have another hmd in late stage development, although I wouldn't expect anything until next year.

HP is looking to release a reverb g2 a long with a steamvr brand.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

So spending a grand on an hmd now, when we could be a year or less away from a genuine functionality leap seems a bit much.

 

[He$$eeTant]

Of all the forums around I truly believe this is the best to discus VR. Thanks for the feedback. Yes I’ve played Alyx and found it a revaluation as I actually enjoyed an FPS in VR. Off the back of that got Lone Echo which was a nice game, this got me into Asgard’s Wrath but can see already it’s no Alyx. ED is great I never stay long but each return I always find it amazing just how well done it is. Project Cars 2, Dirt Rally 2 and xplane 11 take up the rest of my time.

The one HMD I am drawn to it the Vive Pro. Am I delusional or is this the Oculus CV2?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

No, that's the rift-s.

it's a tiny embetterment to the first Vive. The only difference is slightly higher resolution on the panels., But the panels are still only Pentile and has half the stated resolution for red and blue.
It's how Samsung designs their Oled panels, it's ok for high density mobile phones, cause the pixels are tiny.
The LCD panels in the S and index are full RGB so for the orange hud of elite the resolution bump is closer to 250%.

They didn't even change the lenses from the first vive, and this is my greatest issue with the Vive.

The Vive and Vive pro lenses features a much smaller central area of focus than even the first rift.
The Vive as really "eyes front don't even bother to look at an angle.

It's miles behind the panel of the rift-s that has some really great lenses. From what I gather it suits people between 59mm-69mm ipd with the optimum being around 64mm-65mm.

And Htc still wants the same price for a vive pro as valve charges for the index, so almost as much as three rift-s kits.

Take this case in elite.
In the rift I could look with my eyes and see clearly almost midways of the target model on my left and the ships shield stat and health on the right I where facing the center of the sensor screen.
In the Vive that area of focus stopped at the edges of the radar sensor view, to even read my hull stat, I'd have to turn my head.

With the s the viewpoint of sharpness reaches well past this and doesn't loose focus until towards the outside half of the left target info panel, or the fuel gauge on the right.

Almost the entire fov in the s is in focus for me.

I have an ipd in these hmd's at 64.5mm.

 

[LutzBY]

In the rift I could look with my eyes and see clearly almost midways of the target model on my left and the ships shield stat and health on the right I where facing the center of the sensor screen.

Yep, can confirm that. Although off-center image is not so clear, it remains totally readable. But what bothers me, dunno how it stacks up agains other HMDs, but ship cockpit lights (especially that bright panel where joystick and throttle sits) gives you a hell of a lot godrays, most notable in my courier, which has bright white shiny cabin with light stripes.

And Htc still wants the same price for a vive pro as valve charges for the index, so almost as much as three rift-s kits

Its facinating to see how HTC loses it competitiveness. When i was choosing HMD i not even considered HTCs

 

[Ashnak]

Have to second Kyokushin here. Went from Rift CV1 to Reverb, won't go back.

 

[aXeL]

HP Reverb only. There is no point to buy low-resolution headset in 2020.
You may also wait for Reverb 2 or get Pimax 8kX (if you need hardware IPD).

You may find my review of Reverb here:

HP Reverb - my conclusion

Dear Ladies and Gentlemans, I would like to share my humble opinion about HP Reverb PRO. At first, i would like to say - i am 'in' VR world since 2014, smartphone gogles, tracking solutions, i played in most of existing headsets (Oculus, vive pro, etc), and in last year i head Acer VR and...

forums.frontier.co.uk

The Index and the Rift S are obviously horrible display quality next to the Reverb, however the OP mentioned resolution was not a biggie and controllers were important. Whilst my 'verb controllers have been golden, others find they're not so good as Rift S and Index. Personally they all felt the same to me but I'm not a big user of controllers.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

The Index and the Rift S are obviously horrible display quality next to the Reverb, however the OP mentioned resolution was not a biggie and controllers were important. Whilst my 'verb controllers have been golden, others find they're not so good as Rift S and Index. Personally they all felt the same to me but I'm not a big user of controllers.

I could accept that if you are talking first gen rift and vive, the differences between the S, or Index is not that great.

Quite frankly, Elite is a kind of game where you really don't need the added resolution between the S and the reverb.
Reading the the gauges in FSX or DCS, or even some racing sims, yes.
But the difference between Elite and these titles is a bit like comparing a childrens book with print lettering the size of my thumb with the f18c NATOPS manual.
And if you do any VR games at all aside from seated pit games the controllers wobble gets disturbing. Just for pointing around on a desktop in optimum distance yes, but even the S controllers get a little finicky when aiming two handed guns, or close to your face, and that's close as in a little less than a full arms length, so yeah, not super.

Also, the rift-S has no god rays, at all.
And you would need a 2080ti to even hope to see 90fps.

 

[Ganogati]

I think that probably a bigger problem you'll run into is that VR headsets have been sold out all over the place and are just starting to catch up to demand. I've been trying to get my hands on a Pimax 5k Plus for weeks now to no avail.

Valve Index: 8 weeks behind on orders
Vive Pro: Available on Amazon (but its also 2 years old. This is what I use, but YMMV in comparison to more modern headsets)
Pimax: All their headsets are flat sold out
HP Reverb: Back in stock but limited quantities, it appears
Rift S: Back ordered at major retailers; available for a "markup" on Amazon from non-prime sellers. Not sure when new ones will be out

I can say that I run the Vive Pro, and Elite runs like a dream in it. Only things way off in the distance appear fuzzy to me; anything close, like the HUD or menus, are crystal clear; same with my ship. The Vive Pro does have a pretty annoying sound issue out of the box, but there are workarounds to make it sound fantastic (it has almost no bass at all out of the box, which sounds terribad in ED).

 

[Kyokushin]

The Index and the Rift S are obviously horrible display quality next to the Reverb, however the OP mentioned resolution was not a biggie and controllers were important. Whilst my 'verb controllers have been golden, others find they're not so good as Rift S and Index. Personally they all felt the same to me but I'm not a big user of controllers.

I am using controllers very often - no issues so far. Works like a charm.

 

[He$$eeTant]

There are just too many I returned my Reverb its a POS threads to ignore. Its like the Odyssey, a marmite head set some love others hate. Rift S is definitely seen as a good all rounder and the Index gets high praise although there was one video with some worrying build quality issues around the inside lens protection, but he may have been unlucky. The only common issue with the Vive pro seems to be price, but with the new pricing around the entry level set of Vive Pro, v1 lighthouses and controllers at £899 that issue has all but disappeared. That said I am not ignoring the statement by Tor regarding resolution.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

That's still $800 more
There is a reason why there are so many Vive pro owners who buy Gear vr sets, get's 3d printed adapters and swap out the lenses with that in the gear, even though this will result in a completely voided warranty and permanent error in the lens distortion profile.
Those vive pro deals are still $400 more than I would currently pay for something as outdated as a 2017 vive.

Now I am probably the first around here to say through the lens shots are next to worthless, but this one is fairly compelling.

(I print-screened this old video

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NlDaam6izM
)
It should be fairly visible how much a pentile screen degrades the picture, even though the pro has technically 200 pixels more in the vertical the screen door pretty much jumps at you in most settings.

I simply would not buy any HMD with a pentile, or Oled screen for that matter.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

But all said and done.

This is possibly the worst time to get a new hmd.

We are smack between the first generation, and the next, what we got currently is an in-between one.

And on top this whole pandemic is wrecking havoc with manufacturing and logistics.

That said I will keep an eye out to see what HP is doing with the reverb g2.