VR-Heads: Would You Want A Virtual Cockpit?

[Ganogati]

Flimley.... nooooo.

Literally the only time I've seen you be negative about something

(FWIW, I think there's a tiny sliver of a use-case for this. As with NMS, virtual cockpits allow for easy transition between piloting and walking. There is a slim possibility that FDev might try and keep up with, and maybe surpass, the Joneses there. As it's a sound solution to that particular conundrum. On the 'hope and dreams' end of things though for sure )

I really hope you're right on this part, but I have a feeling that they aren't going to focus much on VR when it comes to "space legs". Looking back at the past few patches, I haven't seen so much as a mention of VR since either very early 2019, or 2018.

The issue is that we've got this body sitting there, and it mimics out movements with the hotas. If you add in touch controls, that body has to basically possess those hands, and at the moment they don't have anything in place animation wise for that. Given the level of effort to do it, and their less-than-enthusiastic approach to VR lately, I definitely agree with Flimley that they won't ever do it. I hope they do for the folks who would use it (not me), but at this point I'd be shocked if VR even got included as part of the new space legs stuff much less any drastic new features just for it lol

 

[VR Golgot]

I really hope you're right on this part, but I have a feeling that they aren't going to focus much on VR when it comes to "space legs". Looking back at the past few patches, I haven't seen so much as a mention of VR since either very early 2019, or 2018.

The issue is that we've got this body sitting there, and it mimics out movements with the hotas. If you add in touch controls, that body has to basically possess those hands, and at the moment they don't have anything in place animation wise for that. Given the level of effort to do it, and their less-than-enthusiastic approach to VR lately, I definitely agree with Flimley that they won't ever do it. I hope they do for the folks who would use it (not me), but at this point I'd be shocked if VR even got included as part of the new space legs stuff much less any drastic new features just for it lol

Dammit, I was trying to keep this purely as a pilot's perspective, but I broke my own rule and mentioned the potential further use case

Yep I definitely agree that this is very much on the dream-scenario end of the scale. I think the successful deployment of the same technique by a comparable title does provide an interesting precedent though . (Even if their variant is more on the arcade end). 'Too soon for doom' is my pithy take at the mo, as much as I agree prepping for the worst is wise

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Which ones have you tried M?

I've tried some truly god-awful indie ones that definitely didn't handle recentering / reference-point feedback well at all.

Would say Ultrawings is certainly worth a go for one which seems to handle fine stick movement & prolonged use pretty well.





Erm, pretty much all of the required assets are already in the game. Side panel menus, joystick feedback for visual reference etc. The only thing that would need a touch up would be the cockpit modelling potentially (light turns on when button pressed potentially). But it's not vital so long as there's haptic feedback, and the standard UI status change. (Lights on, light off...)

The examples you mention are pretty unrelated...





Haptic feedback can do the job to a degree here. (And could potentially have a certain cool factor in its own right - the 'fuzz' of interacting with a projected panel / the schwip of flicking sub-section around )

I think we could get used to certain norms within that, and use them somewhat instinctively. (How far is the menu panel from me / approx where is the module tab etc). I could almost see myself doing some tasks faster - say flipping off a depleted heat sink util and bringing the back-up online).

Can never be as analogue as the certainty of slamming a switch though, for sure. But might bring its own benefits.

I used it with Flight Simulator X, No Man's Sky and a combat flight simulator demo I forgot the name

 

[Deleted member 121570]

[

The issue is that we've got this body sitting there, and it mimics out movements

You know, this reminds me: Literally a year or so ago I suggested that what'd be awesome for multicrew would be that our heads could also track either our headlook position or VR head movement. It'd be great to be able to look over at each other etc, whilst flyin about )

Little thing, big immersion factor.

Sorry for derail - just had to share the idea again

 

[Ganogati]

[


You know, this reminds me: Literally a year or so ago I suggested that what'd be awesome for multicrew would be that our heads could also track either our headlook position or VR head movement. It'd be great to be able to look over at each other etc, whilst flyin about )

Little thing, big immersion factor.

Sorry for derail - just had to share the idea again

It may not have done that because of people like me who get up and walk around in VR. It would be like something out of a horror movie with the head whipping around all over the place like someone possessed.

 

[Arioch]

It may not have done that because of people like me who get up and walk around in VR. It would be like something out of a horror movie with the head whipping around all over the place like someone possessed.

“Uh oh - the co-pilot’s gone Cronenberg again!”

 

[VR Golgot]

I used it with Flight Simulator X, No Man's Sky and a combat flight simulator demo I forgot the name

Oh lord, NMS is not a great variant, I know that much

(I mean, it's functional enough for the use case, but between the slimline flight model, the eccentric default controls, and the one sensitivity parameter, it felt more like I was cursoring around than anything. Not the best implementation I've seen )

You know, this reminds me: Literally a year or so ago I suggested that what'd be awesome for multicrew would be that our heads could also track either our headlook position or VR head movement. It'd be great to be able to look over at each other etc, whilst flyin about )

Little thing, big immersion factor.

Sorry for derail - just had to share the idea again

Yeah would be cool for sure. It was mentioned at Multicrew launch. They said, to paraphrase:

How will Holo Me etc work with VR? Same, avs don't twist head. Depending how thing's go it's probably possible. They can't get up at the moment so not worth sticking a camera to the head yet.

 

[Ashnak]

What are the limitations of the WMR controllers? The variants I've used have worked fine with the Oculus controllers, and didn't even take advantage of the 'finger pointing' function. The hand just morphed to 'pointy button flicking' mode when it approached a potential control. Only input I was using to transition was to grasp the throttle or not grasp it, as a rule.

Lack of precision and finger tracking. Comes down to what one comment said - ok for arcade games. In ED, I'd only want to use this if it becomes precise enough for at least 6 fingers simultaneously on a keyboard. Yes, virtual typing would require a different controller design, probably something strapped to the rear of the hand.

 

[Ganogati]

Lack of precision and finger tracking. Comes down to what one comment said - ok for arcade games. In ED, I'd only want to use this if it becomes precise enough for at least 6 fingers simultaneously on a keyboard. Yes, virtual typing would require a different controller design, probably something strapped to the rear of the hand.

They do make tracking gloves, that track all the fingers, but they just aren't widely supported. So the hardware is there, just not the software.

 

[Ashnak]

They do make tracking gloves, that track all the fingers, but they just aren't widely supported. So the hardware is there, just not the software.

Stone age technology
As long as we're dreaming, I want contactless non-mechanical tracking - video would be a possibility. If we can do it right now in cars (ok, concept cars), it should be possible.

 

[VR Golgot]

Lack of precision and finger tracking. Comes down to what one comment said - ok for arcade games. In ED, I'd only want to use this if it becomes precise enough for at least 6 fingers simultaneously on a keyboard. Yes, virtual typing would require a different controller design, probably something strapped to the rear of the hand.

Oh wow, yeah that is a high level of precision. Think that’s index up / next gen / hand scanning territory.

Think for the current gen prodding buttons and grabbing sticks may have to do

https://imgur.com/a/caYBXw6

Source: https://imgur.com/a/caYBXw6

 

[Flimley]

Flimley.... nooooo.

Literally the only time I've seen you be negative about something

(FWIW, I think there's a tiny sliver of a use-case for this. As with NMS, virtual cockpits allow for easy transition between piloting and walking. There is a slim possibility that FDev might try and keep up with, and maybe surpass, the Joneses there. As it's a sound solution to that particular conundrum. On the 'hope and dreams' end of things though for sure )

Hehe thanks Golgot.
Well, it was only the middle section that was..... realistic. \o/

There’s no doubt that no man’s sky deals very well with VR, on foot, that could one day develop very well into glove wearing if that becomes a thing . I found my walking around escapades feeling very intuitive in that game. ... nicely done! I would be more than happy for Frontier to ‘borrow‘ some of that functionality If/when space legs occurs.
However, when in flight, (in elite) the hotas is the premier experience. I can’t imagine trying to wave my hands around in the cockpit when all hell is being let loose. I also believe frontier wouldn’t touch their HUD interface with a barge pole in a million years for that.
Walking around however in the so called space legs ..,, swapping to Xbox or touch controllers would be quite the thing.

Flimley

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I would like it. Whether we get it or not is another question.

 

[leeG]

As a VR HOTAS player, well actually HOSAS, I’d love to see models of our actual joysticks in game, with some positioning adjustments so when we look down at our virtual arms we see them holding our joysticks where our hands actually are. Render our hands moving the stick and pressing the buttons. Talk about immersive.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

As a VR HOTAS player, well actually HOSAS, I’d love to see models of our actual joysticks in game, with some positioning adjustments so when we look down at our virtual arms we see them holding our joysticks where our hands actually are. Render our hands moving the stick and pressing the buttons. Talk about immersive.

The in-game stick is an X52 so you can already have this if you get the X52 HOTAS.

 

[Midian Cabal]

Cockpit buttons and switches are soooo 20th century. If you're into vintage stuff, then sure, knock yourself out and keep moving your hands away from your most important inputs.
I'll pass.

 

[VR Golgot]

However, when in flight, (in elite) the hotas is the premier experience. I can’t imagine trying to wave my hands around in the cockpit when all hell is being let loose. I also believe frontier wouldn’t touch their HUD interface with a barge pole in a million years for that.

Yeah combat is the hot crucible where this would be made or broken.

That's why I find the VTOL deployment comforting, but with the caveat that it's PvE only.

Possibly the way I navigate menus is sub-optimal (hat for navigating entries, different hat to cycle between tabs), but I suspect I could do some of the combat menu-diving at least as well with hand interaction, and possibly faster in some key cases.

I don't think I really do much dynamic throttle changing while doing the more involved stuff, like turning modules on / off etc, even though theoretically I could be. I'm too focused on selecting the right option, while doing evasive manoeuvrers with the stick etc. It seems to me that stuff could be comparatively achieved.

I've got sub-target selection on the 'mouse wheel' of the throttle, which is quite a neat HOTAS system (but I do still have to eyeball the readout to make sure I'm landing on the right thing - so would it really be that distinct from prodding the desired option quickly I wonder?). Ultimately there are quite a few hard inputs possible on the controllers themselves (turn one button into a shift and you've got a whole lot more). So lots of combat-vital inputs like that could still be there to hand if wanted.

I dunno, I suspect ultimately it would be a step down from a top-end HOTAS, specifically in terms of 'hands not on the stick' moments. But I wonder if the other benefits would make up for it? The immersion factors in particular: Swiping through Galnet like your daily newspaper (if it returns ); leaning forward while stabbing the lights on to get a closer look at that floating alien carcass; idly prodding at the local trade opportunities as you cruise towards base. (Plus the 'one input device rules them all' aspect for any non-seated activity, if that occurs ).

(PS I'm not sure they'd have to change the HUD interface radically though would they? Shifting the panels closer + enlarging isn't a major change. As far as I can tell everything could be potentially 'finger selected' once that's done).

Anyways, fun to speculate about

 

[Turd Ferguson]

no. without some kind of surface to press against virtual controls would be too inaccurate for precise flight. NMS kind-of does this using the VR controllers and it's not good.

I'm very happy with the current VR setup with HOTAS support - for a long time it was the ONLY reason I played the game.

what I WOULD like to see:

1) better scaling in VR. in some cockpits, scaling is off. for example - when sitting down in the Pyhon or Anaconda everything looks fine, but if you stand up your head clips through the top of the ship like Dino in The Flintstones opening even though they should be plenty big enough to accommodate a standing human.

2) cockpits that don't obscure more than half of your field of view with useless static display masks. I want more ships like the T9/T10, Asp Explorer....basically the Lakon ships got it right for VR. The rest...kind of meh. The Sidewinder, Eagle, and Courier are ok too....but the Lakon ships is the place to be for VR.

hopefully FDev is still doing some active development to improve the VR experience and not just whatevering it with bug fixes and no serious effort.

Also Star Trek controls have always been the epitome of "pretend you're pressing buttons and it's really really hard" style controls. If that's what flying is like in the future, count me out.

 

[Crank Larson]

The main payoff / downside would be a virtual joystick.

That's not a downside, that's terminal. Try NMS and you'll find out why... Their ships and vehicles are a joke in VR.

I'm all for having responsive screens and button you can poke at, so long as HOTAS support is maintained as it is. I'll stick with my HOTAS.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

no. without some kind of surface to press against virtual controls would be too inaccurate for precise fligh

This is the big thing for me. I'm an FA-off, dual stick race pilot. There's some serious abuse going on for my poor gimbals, and that's why they're now duralumin. I just worry air wouldn't cut it.

I'd definitely try it tho, just to pretend I was in Picard