Tritium Mining in the black

[ferus]

My only problem with mining tritium in the black is actually finding a tritium hotspot.
I can't count how many VO and LTD hotspots have I found while searching but tritium? Very rare... Too rare I would say.

BUT. Once I find one the yield with SSD is more than acceptable. There are tritium SS deposits on each glowing asteroid


BTW, is there a list where I can post tritium hotspots that I have found so far so other CMDRs can use them if needed?

PS: Currently my tritium consumption is about 150t/500 LY

 

[alexzk]

70 minutes per 1 carrier full range jump about on trit spot.

 

[rhiz]

I think you forgot the possibility to explore systems in the vicinity of your carrier (with an exploration ship of your choice*) for a Tritium hotspot and then remotely order your carrier directly into this ring. The beauty of this method (which is slow - no ifs, ands or buts) is, that it creates a circular dependency between mining and exploration. You do the mining to move your carrier and you explore to find your mining grounds. It's not for those who want to get from A to B as fast as possible. It's a way of living in the galaxy - forever if you want.

Yeah, that's basically my plan - and to use the FC to reach previously unreachable systems. I stocked up with 18k of tritium before leaving the bubble and topped that up in Colonia, so I haven't started mining yet.

 

[rhiz]

I remain convinced that they never intended FCs to be used for exploration, and only grudgingly added UCs to them. I don't expect any changes to the refueling mechanism or Tritium yields any time soon.

There's no doubt about that in my mind - that was clearly the case.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Let me put it in this way. I hate scanning planets because it takes ages to fly from one to the other. Do you think it's an oversight? Or do you think it's part of the exploration mechanics?
What would you say if people started requesting an instantaneous or automatic full system scanning? Next request would be, engineered to scan also system nearby. Then engineered to scan the whole sector so you could explore without all those tedious tasks of going from system to system.
There is absolutely no difference with what you are asking here...

That’s not a particularly logical argument. Why would my opinion on one thing extend to others?!
It ignores that a precedent has been set in respect to refuelling in the game,this isn’t the case with system scanning.

 

[Gpaolo]

That’s not a particularly logical argument. Why would my opinion on one thing extend to others?!
It ignores that a precedent has been set in respect to refuelling in the game,this isn’t the case with system scanning.

It's absolutely the same principle. There is something that you find boring in what you want to do and you want that dynamic removed. There is something that I find boring in what I want to do and I want that dynamic removed.
I'm a fairly new player, but as far as I know FSS wasn't present since the beginning, so there you have your precedent.

Let me add, refueling a ship is not a precedent for refueling a FC. Fuel is different and it's found in different places, in the same way that one ship is different from a FC.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

It's absolutely the same principle. There is something that you find boring in what you want to do and you want that dynamic removed. There is something that I find boring in what I want to do and I want that dynamic removed.
I'm a fairly new player, but as far as I know FSS wasn't present since the beginning, so there you have your precedent.

Let me add, refueling a ship is not a precedent for refueling a FC. Fuel is different and it's found in different places, in the same way that one ship is different from a FC.

I don’t like green apples is it a logical conclusion that I don’t like limes?
There are more reasons other than how boring relentless mining can be for my conclusion that it is a bad choice for refuelling Carriers.
If you’ve got a particular beef with the FSS you’re not alone,but that’s another conversation.

 

[StarLord55]

Deep space exploration in a carrier is definitely for me. I absolutely do not advocate for teleportation or "infinite" fuel, thats rediculous and no one is suggesting that. Its not teleportation since the refuel is locked to days worth of scooping. I agree sitting around and waiting for my next jump does not sound like fun, but thats not what I will be doing. I fully intend on exploring, in a smaller ship, in the meantime. Time is the real issue here, isnt it? To say its infinite fuel or teleportation is too dismissive.

This is a space sim, right? Do you think the Federation would make a point to develop hydrogen fuel scooping tech, and then when it comes to carriers stop and say, "Nah, this would be too conveinient for commanders. They must mine."

And we are forced to mine. You could use the support network, but If I place an order for fuel and it takes 3 days for somone to deliver or for me to pick up, is that not the same thing???? I will be paying upkeep for my scoop of course. And it would increase the weight of the carrier, so there is a trade off. All the people who insist on mining would have a lead on travel since the carrier is lighter - happy?

You dont like scooping? How about hiring NPCs at a high comission to "mine" for you? Same thing. Time, and how I alocate my time is the concern.

 

[Gpaolo]

You dont like scooping? How about hiring NPCs at a high comission to "mine" for you? Same thing. Time, and how I alocate my time is the concern.

It's not that I don't like it, it's that the discussion is based on a wrong principle.
Individual ships use fuels that's found on stars, so you scoop them. FC have a completely different purpose and use a fuel found on ice rings. You can't scoop ice rings.
But the important point for me it's another.
In this game the only thing you need to progress is time. Let's be honest: there is no particular ability or skill needed. Everything you can do in game -exploration, mining, progressing in ships, missions- implies some dynamics which have as unique effect to make it faster or slower.
For example, mining. Where is the "difficulty"? Finding good rocks, collecting minerals, deliver and get the cash. So you can't find a good one? You need more time. You don't have enough limpts or don't sit in the right spot? More time. Have to fly far? More time.
Exploration: fly to a system, FSS, scan bodies. You want to fly far? It takes time. You need to scan with the FSS? It takes time. You need to launch surface probes? It takes time.
Now, fleet carriers. You want to move your own base far away in the galaxy? Just jump. What is the only limitation? Fuel -quite a reasonable one. What do you need for fuel? Time.
If you remove "time" from the equation (with automatic scooping, with NPC miners, whatever) you have removed the only part of that game dynamics where you need to invest something (your time) and that makes it different from some dumb repetitive gameboy arcade.

You don't like mining? That is perfectly legitimate, but the game doesn't force you to do it because you have plenty of other options (also listed above, where he was saying that only a minority of explorers mine). So you have plenty of other options to use the FC without mining, and also to keep exploring without worrying for fuel... without using a FC, joining someone esle FC, etc.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

It's not that I don't like it, it's that the discussion is based on a wrong principle.
Individual ships use fuels that's found on stars, so you scoop them. FC have a completely different purpose and use a fuel found on ice rings. You can't scoop ice rings.
But the important point for me it's another.
In this game the only thing you need to progress is time. Let's be honest: there is no particular ability or skill needed. Everything you can do in game -exploration, mining, progressing in ships, missions- implies some dynamics which have as unique effect to make it faster or slower.
For example, mining. Where is the "difficulty"? Finding good rocks, collecting minerals, deliver and get the cash. So you can't find a good one? You need more time. You don't have enough limpts or don't sit in the right spot? More time. Have to fly far? More time.
Exploration: fly to a system, FSS, scan bodies. You want to fly far? It takes time. You need to scan with the FSS? It takes time. You need to launch surface probes? It takes time.
Now, fleet carriers. You want to move your own base far away in the galaxy? Just jump. What is the only limitation? Fuel -quite a reasonable one. What do you need for fuel? Time.
If you remove "time" from the equation (with automatic scooping, with NPC miners, whatever) you have removed the only part of that game dynamics where you need to invest something (your time) and that makes it different from some dumb repetitive gameboy arcade.

You don't like mining? That is perfectly legitimate, but the game doesn't force you to do it because you have plenty of other options (also listed above, where he was saying that only a minority of explorers mine). So you have plenty of other options to use the FC without mining, and also to keep exploring without worrying for fuel... without using a FC, joining someone esle FC, etc.

Ok,hypothetically if mining couldn’t work,what other solution fit your criteria?

 

[Gpaolo]

Ok,hypothetically if mining couldn’t work,what other solution fit your criteria?

I don't know, mining makes perfect sense to me.
Actually, I would introduce also a weekly use of water, oxygen and food, plus consumption of whatever fuel for FC energy, plus need of spare materials for limpets, repairs, ammo, ship fuel, etc.
In other words, all those things that you assume are automatically restocked by "the system" in the bubble and that you can't get when you are isolated.
Things like food could be either bought in sufficient quantity or synthesized from components you can mine, same for other things.
Unfortunately mining is the only means in the game to obtain resources from the environment (fuel scoop excluded), so unless the gameplay is radically changed, I can't see any other way.

 

[StarLord55]

It's not that I don't like it, it's that the discussion is based on a wrong principle.
Individual ships use fuels that's found on stars, so you scoop them. FC have a completely different purpose and use a fuel found on ice rings. You can't scoop ice rings.
But the important point for me it's another.
In this game the only thing you need to progress is time. Let's be honest: there is no particular ability or skill needed. Everything you can do in game -exploration, mining, progressing in ships, missions- implies some dynamics which have as unique effect to make it faster or slower.
For example, mining. Where is the "difficulty"? Finding good rocks, collecting minerals, deliver and get the cash. So you can't find a good one? You need more time. You don't have enough limpts or don't sit in the right spot? More time. Have to fly far? More time.
Exploration: fly to a system, FSS, scan bodies. You want to fly far? It takes time. You need to scan with the FSS? It takes time. You need to launch surface probes? It takes time.
Now, fleet carriers. You want to move your own base far away in the galaxy? Just jump. What is the only limitation? Fuel -quite a reasonable one. What do you need for fuel? Time.
If you remove "time" from the equation (with automatic scooping, with NPC miners, whatever) you have removed the only part of that game dynamics where you need to invest something (your time) and that makes it different from some dumb repetitive gameboy arcade.

You don't like mining? That is perfectly legitimate, but the game doesn't force you to do it because you have plenty of other options (also listed above, where he was saying that only a minority of explorers mine). So you have plenty of other options to use the FC without mining, and also to keep exploring without worrying for fuel... without using a FC, joining someone esle FC, etc.

I sympathize with your concern, but I think your missing the point. Of course everything takes time in this game, and with relatively little skill as you say. Skill mostly dictates efficiency. My point is, having a scoop allows me to spend my time exploring, in a smaller ship, rather than mining. And I probably will end up mining to speed things up now and then.

If you and I were to race to beagle point, both of us having a scoop but you mine and I don't, you would win by a landslide. I would probably make it 25% of the way there before you finish.

I like the idea of grouping with people on a journey, but people are unreliable. This makes deep space a little more accessable for solo explorers.

 

[Gpaolo]

I sympathize with your concern, but I think your missing the point. Of course everything takes time in this game, and with relatively little skill as you say. Skill mostly dictates efficiency. My point is, having a scoop allows me to spend my time exploring, in a smaller ship, rather than mining. And I probably will end up mining to speed things up now and then.

If you and I were to race to beagle point, both of us having a scoop but you mine and I don't, you would win by a landslide. I would probably make it 25% of the way there before you finish.

I like the idea of grouping with people on a journey, but people are unreliable. This makes deep space a little more accessable for solo explorers.

I think this is where the interpretation diverges. If I had to race, I would never do it in a FC.
For me exploration is, set route with the most economic planning to visit every start system, scan systems, eventually land and get some materials, scan rings and when I find I nice spot to rest I call the FC and use it as a base for further exploration, some mining and refueling. And the proceed.
Actually, even if you need to get far away to start exploring, nothing prevents you to use the FC as it is now: fill it up with fuel, use half of it to get away from bubble, explore (you still have to use small ships) and go back with the rest of the fuel (the lighter the cheaper to jump, so you could even use more than half to go away).
How far would you be able to jump using 13kt of fuel?

 

[StarLord55]

Furthermore, I believe Tritium is a form of hydrogen. So scoop the hydrogen and process the Tritium. This could be a good way of restocking hydrogen for the refuel facility, and then you puchase a processer to create Tritium. Again, more weight, upkeep etc.

I agree that stocking other resources such as food and oxygen would be neat. For food, you can make farms and harvest nitrogen and produce fertilizer, but the farms would allow you to streach the nitrogen supply for a long time.

 

[StarLord55]

I think this is where the interpretation diverges. If I had to race, I would never do it in a FC.
For me exploration is, set route with the most economic planning to visit every start system, scan systems, eventually land and get some materials, scan rings and when I find I nice spot to rest I call the FC and use it as a base for further exploration, some mining and refueling. And the proceed.
Actually, even if you need to get far away to start exploring, nothing prevents you to use the FC as it is now: fill it up with fuel, use half of it to get away from bubble, explore (you still have to use small ships) and go back with the rest of the fuel (the lighter the cheaper to jump, so you could even use more than half to go away).
How far would you be able to jump using 13kt of fuel?

The point is not to race, I wouldnt race in an FC either. Thats not the motivation behind my suggestion. I just wanted to demonstrate what littlw impact that would have on travel time for those who claim scooping would negate the need for Tritium mining.

 

[Gpaolo]

Furthermore, I believe Tritium is a form of hydrogen. So scoop the hydrogen and process the Tritium. This could be a good way of restocking hydrogen for the refuel facility, and then you puchase a processer to create Tritium. Again, more weight, upkeep etc.

Yeah, I think we should avoid chemistry applied to ED, I find always amusing blasting liquid oxygen from rocks using laser and that it remains... solid

 

[Defacto]

Furthermore, I believe Tritium is a form of hydrogen. So scoop the hydrogen and process the Tritium. This could be a good way of restocking hydrogen for the refuel facility, and then you puchase a processer to create Tritium. Again, more weight, upkeep etc.

I agree that stocking other resources such as food and oxygen would be neat. For food, you can make farms and harvest nitrogen and produce fertilizer, but the farms would allow you to streach the nitrogen supply for a long time.

There's practically no tritium to process in natural hydrogen. Actually, it's very weird that you can mine tritium, how does that even work?
AFAIK basically the only way to produce tritium is as rare fission product and neutron irradiation of some elements, how does that happen naturally in large amounts? Strange. If the ingame tritium is nothing like real tritium, why call it tritium?

 

[StarLord55]

Yeah, I think we should avoid chemistry applied to ED, I find always amusing blasting liquid oxygen from rocks using laser and that it remains... solid

Lol, yes I agree. But Frontier is in the business of games like Planet Zoo. Im sure they could make it work, not that im necessarily advocating for chemistry.

We could use some more creativity in this game rather than constantly leaning on mining.

 

[Susanna]

Considering that in my entire 5 year career in Elite I have mined 19K of various resources, it will take a hell of a long time. Forever if you hate mining. I warned about this in the beta, but got "shouted down" by certain people who knew better than me. So go and enjoy!

I'm with you on this one! we need an automated means of refueling in the black... mining thousands of units of Trit is just a Nightmare!

 

[Darth Ender]

Exploring by itself is a pointless, skilless, taskless, time-limit-less, nonsense activity that only tests how long you can stay awake after doing the same thing over and over again to "explore" one functionally identical system after another that changes nothing and offers nothing new to the game.

Having to actually do different things while "exploring" can only improve it and begin to provide some kind of justification for getting paid to do it at all. Unless of course fdev decides to introduce hazardous environments and actually makes space dangerous. Which they wont.

every role should require a mixed set of activities because they certainly dont require any kind of skill on their own. At least mixing them requires compromising min-max tendencies. Even if it takes you twice as long (it wont, mining a few hundred tons of carrier fuel doesn't take more than a few hours) now to explore because you have to mine or do combat or whatever, then so what? exploration isn't a race. How long it takes you to do it doesn't matter. If your purpose is the zen of how little you do while doing it, then you still got all of that ..just with less absolute distance put between you and your starting location.

And you dont need to mine tthousands of tons every jump. Even if you wait until you run out after a couple thousand lightyears worth of jumps from 1000 tons of fuel... Every jump you're going to presumably explore ...you'll find ice rings, you'll find trit hot spots. You'll probably even find overlaps. You mine a few hundred tons to make up for what was used in the last jump and move on. It takes many hours to explore all around a carrier after a jump. Days even if you're doing a radius of at least 100ly. Mining is a drop in the bucket.

Or is your definition of exploring trying to reach some great distance first... like it matters? You trying to be the first person to ever get to the edge or top or bottom or whatever? Travelling is not exploring. Nobody needs to buff how fast travelling is already in this game since the changes made from release to now. It's already brokenly fast.