3rd DLC Pack Discussion - What region do you think it will cover? When do you see it releasing?

Chances still are though, we won't get an australian pack yet, but something else...
What just came to my mind: Some animals so far in DLCs have been hinted in the base game already when the game was released: Jaguar, Cappuchin monkey, polar bear I believe... the only animal that is hinted in the base game now but we don't have it yet is a deer. It seems unlikely to get an european pack in the summer, but I think we all shouldn't forget that the next dlc can very well be something other than Australia.
 
This might come as a surprise to you,

I never get surprised anymore by things in 2020.....

but developing a new rig takes much more effort than using an existing rig and just cut the tail of. Frontier only has to create a new skin and can use the existing walking and climbing animations of the red Panda

Sounds like logic to me.
Why re-invent the wheel, when you have a base template you can work off, and spend precious time on re-doing something you already did before.
 
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This might come as a surprise to you, but developing a new rig takes much more effort than using an existing rig and just cut the tail of. Frontier only has to create a new skin and can use the existing walking and climbing animations of the red Panda
Well, yes and no. When making a zoo game like this, there are shared rig sets that form the base, like a big cat rig. Those are specifically created so that they can be re-used with slight adjustments. So it's not like "oh will take a red panda and cut of the tail" ( which you don't even need to do, just don't rig the model to the tail nodes), but it's more "lets use this base rig we created and fine-tune it to fit the animal we want".

However, adjusting rigs is indeed often easier than doing an entire new rig, it is important to understand that this is only the case when very small changes need to be made. Transferring a red panda rig to a koala rig for instance, which is quite different skeletal wise, is actually a very painstaking job and takes so much more time, that it's actually easier and takes much less effort to do it from scratch, or at least use a very very early base rig.

People seriously underestimate how hard it is to change rigs and animations of animal A to animal B if these animals are very different in bodyplan. It is in that case much easier to just do one from scratch, especially if you're paying someone to do it.

Are those two animals really that different? I only watched some YouTube videos, and I thought them to be quite similar. They are even inaccurately called koala bear.

Oh yes they are, they certainly move in different ways. As a general rule of thumb, when it comes to animals, skeletons are often a good representation of what an actual rig will look like. Trying to repurpose an red panda rig to a would be incredibly difficult, especially do the length of the body, the hunchback, the way it sits in the trees etc. So it's rather hard to do, to a point that it will most likely take more effort than to just do it from scratch.

Frontier already showed, that they are willing to take rigs from existing animals for animals, that are quite similar, but have (for biologists) notable differences in movement.
Oh yeah for sure, and that's a good thing. There's no need to make a new rig for every big cat or every horse species, that would be way too much work and wouldn't be efficient for the game either. Frontier does also seem to work with shared behaviours ( a behaviour is an action that contains one or more animations), so that makes things a bit easier. The giant anteater for instance has a new rig when looking at the model in a 3d software, with its own set of animations, but it does share its behaviours with the aardvark so it seems.


Aside from that, I wonder why people are so concerned about koala's being quite arboreal, when we literally have orangutans in the game that should be mostly arboreal and aren't in the game either 😅 I don't think it's something that will stop Frontier, at least not from the looks of it 🤷‍♂️
 
Even if that is true, I cannot imagine an Asutralian DLC without kangaroos. The chance that they would release such DLC without this iconic animal is almost minimal in my opinion.

Koala...I am not sure. I consider them a must in game animal, however they are even more complicated because of their arboreal lifestyle so there is a chance they wont make it into the pack...at least for now. We will see.

I couldn't imagine a zoo without birds but here we are.
 
Frontier does also seem to work with shared behaviours ( a behaviour is an action that contains one or more animations), so that makes things a bit easier. The giant anteater for instance has a new rig when looking at the model in a 3d software, with its own set of animations, but it does share its behaviours with the aardvark so it seems.

First of all, thank you for taking the time to write such an in-depth explanation! Can you give me some tangible example of what a behaviour is?

The knuckle walking, ground dwelling Orang Utan is one of the main reasons why I (falsely?) expected that Frontier will cut some corners and use the Panda for a Koala rig. And I wouldn't blame them, because most Players won't notice those subtile differences anyways.
 
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I mean, there are probably limitations of doing flying birds right. But I am not sure what would stop them from making kangaroos other than a new rig/animations...

Climbing stopped them from putting sloths in the south america dlc. So they struggle with flying and climbing. And underwater swimming...so swimming is also missing unless you include floating on the surface. So they seem to be limited by flying, climbing, and swimming species.
 
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First of all, thank you for taking the time to write such an in-depth explanation! Can you give me some tangible example of what a behaviour is?

No problem at all! Sure thing. So for a starter, I'm talking mostly about how these things were done in ZT2 and WLP3, because my modding experience originates from that mostly. But given that PZ is another zoo game and the practices in both ZT2 and WLP3 are pretty common ones throughout other games, I wouldn't be surprised if Frontier used a similar method.

Essentially, a behaviour is a "task" animal performs. Depending on how fine-grained it is, you can split up behaviours into sub-behaviours, but let's have a simple example here. Let's assume that there's a mating dance behaviour for an ostrich. This behaviour gets triggered by another behaviour, a stat that has reached a certain level, an other animal that triggers something, anything really. Said behaviour then consists of a list of animations, in our example that could be Stand_OpenRightWing, Stand_OpenLeftWing and Stand_PranceInCircle. This list can be a single animation, a looped set of animations, a set of animations that something is randomly chosen from, etc. etc.

The cool thing is that you can re-use behaviours. You can use the "EatFromTermiteMound" behaviour for an Aardvark by using a list of Aardvark animations, and then re-use the same behaviour but this time providing a list of Giant Anteater animations. Same behaviour aka eating from a termite mound, but visually it looks different because they use different animations.

Of course, I don't know the nitty-gritty of it when it comes to how Frontier uses this specifically, and either they have a very similar concept or this concept but with variations to it; but that's in essence how it works in game development. The animation is merely the visual part of it, the behaviour is what does all the other stuff, like playing the animation at the right time, lowering/highering hunger levels, etc.

The knuckle walking, ground dwelling Orang Utan is one of the main reasons why I (falsely?) expected that Frontier will cut some corners and use the Panda for a Koala rig. And I wouldn't blame them, because most Players won't notice those subtile differences anyways.
Oh sure, that's a reasonable assumption to make, I think that Frontier rather has a great ape anim set with some custom anims for gorillas and orangutan; but koala and panda are pretty much like aardvarks and anteaters. At first glance you could say "oh yeah you could re-use that", but when you look into it closer, you notice that it's just too much of a hassle to try to readjust it and just making a new rig is the far easier option.
 
Chances still are though, we won't get an australian pack yet, but something else...
What just came to my mind: Some animals so far in DLCs have been hinted in the base game already when the game was released: Jaguar, Cappuchin monkey, polar bear I believe... the only animal that is hinted in the base game now but we don't have it yet is a deer. It seems unlikely to get an european pack in the summer, but I think we all shouldn't forget that the next dlc can very well be something other than Australia.

I really liked your point of view. If it will be true we also can expect:

Nile crocodile
Peccary
Some flightless bird
Leopard
Deer mostly Red
Northern-white cheeked gibbon
Black howler monkey
Black Rhinoceros
Dromedary Camel
American or Chinese Alligator
Dik-dik
Baboon

I would be more than happy with all those new species
 
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I really liked your point of view. If it will be true we also can expect:

Nile crocodile
Peccary
Some flightless bird
Leopard
Deer mostly Red
Northern-white cheeked gibbon
Black howler monkey
Black Rhinoceros
American or Chinese Alligator
Dik-dik
Baboon

I would be more than happy with all those new species
Hmm, are you talking about the codes? I'd love all these animals, but I was actually just talking about hints with decorations in game. Or did we get decorations of these animals in game that I didn't see? Sorry, my fault, I didn't make my point clear in the first post.
 
I don't really want another pack that covers one region as I feel we have skipped so many animals from regions already covered e.g. sloths from south america and marketeers from Africa. I would also like to see otters and penguins added, that's my four animals I would like to see in the next dlc.


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I dislike the region-concept but I'm afraid things won't change soon. Maybe next year, if ever. But I bet the plans for this year are already made and can't be changed.
So... Plushie give-away on all social media platforms. Seems like another tuesday will pass without a DLC announcement. I would have bet on it today.

Aaaand I figured why I have a PZ down. Now that I know the reason I might get back into the swing of things soon. Which is why I actually would appreciate a DLC next week, when I'm free of work :D
 
I have a feeling we might get teasers next week, a short trailer the week after, and the dlc along with a free update 2nd week of August.

I've been wrong so many times with regards to release dates, but if the last dlc is any indicator it was 16 weeks exactly between Arctic dlc (dec 17) and S. America's dlc (apr 7). And 16 weeks after April 7 is next Tuesday July 28th. The PZ twitter also has a habit of teasing content on weekends (maybe this Fri or Sat). And if it isn't then I'm guessing covid delayed it slightly?
 
I've been wrong so many times with regards to release dates, but if the last dlc is any indicator it was 16 weeks exactly between Arctic dlc (dec 17) and S. America's dlc (apr 7). And 16 weeks after April 7 is next Tuesday July 28th. The PZ twitter also has a habit of teasing content on weekends (maybe this Fri or Sat). And if it isn't then I'm guessing covid delayed it slightly?
We'll just have to wait and see...
 
Don't they usually announce the update/dlc about 10 days ahead of release? Based on that, if we get no announcement this week then next week is definitely not happening, maybe not even the following week.

Well Arctic was 6 days after the teaser lol. The other is debateable since they teased several images over several days, but the official announcement was 8 days before the dlc.
 
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Well Arctic was 6 days after the teaser lol. The other is debateable since they teased several images over several days, but the official announcement was 8 days before the dlc.

But the free update was announced more than 10 days before release (and everyone knew dlc was coming with it, just no details). So of they do not announce anything this Thursday or Friday it is probably safe to assume no dlc within next 2 weeks.
 
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