NPCs Disappearing / Reappearing
- Thread starter rekurzion
- Start date
I think the NPCs appear on the radar when entering supercruise, then the radar detects they are going slow and they disappear. Then they appear on the radar again when they speed up. I think there's a delay involved which might be why it gets a bit frustrating sometimes. I'll have to look at this behaviour a bit closer when I play next and see if that's what's really happening.
It's anything within 40 seconds travel time at the current velocity. Who is moving is irrelevant.
If I'm 10k ls out and moving at 250c our CMDRs will be able to target each other CMDR even if your CMDR is at minimum SC velocity.
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Nope, read the manual.
"Ships are automatically visible within a 40 second time horizon BASED ON THE FASTEST SHIP'S SPEED"
So according to the manual, who is moving is very relevant.
Yeah, this is the problem, you going slow, shouldn't stop you from seeing others who are going fast - you should be seeing them within a 40 second time horizon based on their speed (as they are the fastest ship)
The only way to properly test this, is by using multiple players, so you can know the speeds of each and control it. Using NPC's will be inaccurate
Nope, read the manual.
"Ships are automatically visible within a 40 second time horizon BASED ON THE FASTEST SHIP'S SPEED"
So according to the manual, who is moving is very relevant.
There is always a fastest ship (or ship with highest potential velocity) and they are detectable at the same range they can be detected. So, which one is moving, or which one is where, is irrelevant. Any ship within 40 seconds potential travel time is visible.
It's the point you didn't quote that might be mistaken. I'm second guessing myself here; it might be the same for CMDRs as it is for planetary bodies--maximum possible speed, rather than current speed. I'll have to look at and old video or fire up the game and head to a populated system to refresh my memory.
This is the case, because who is moving is irrelevant.
I think I get what you are saying, and I don't think we actually disagree, just word it differently.
Yes, it shouldn't matter which ship is fastest, both should have the same vision.
But, that vision should be based on the fastest ship.
If I am stationary, and you are going fast, and I am within 40s based on your speed, we should both see each other.
What shouldn't happen, is you see me, because you have a longer range based on your speed, but I do not see you, because my range is less due to a lower speed.
So long as we see each other based on the longest detection distance of the two, it's working fine.
That's what I'm unsure about. That it is actually working like that.
I'm confident it is working so that there is no way for one ship to target another in SC, without also being targetable by that ship.
I'm just not sure if anyone actually has to be moving, or if the max SC speed possible to accelerate to, in that area, at that moment, is the determining factor. I had assumed it was the former at one point, but now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure it's actually the latter.
It's not the max possible, it's the current speed.
So it is. Thanks for the confirmation.
I've not played Elite in a while - but adding stealth-like mechanics to supercruise is one thing I've wanted since about 2014.
This effect has always been there.
I played since launch, it definitely wasn't back then
I've been looking through my videos to see if I can identify the earliest point where a time based sensor range seems to be in play.
From Beta 1 through Gamma 1, SC sensor range seems fixed and either infinite or extremely long. In Gamma 2 I thought I saw evidence of the time-based horizon, but that might just be a reduction in SC sensor range.
However, I am almost positive I see the the time based SC sensor horizon by 1.2-1.3 in mid 2015 and it's in the manual by version 1.05, which is from mid-2015 (1.4/CQC) and pre-dates Horizons.
Page 70: https://hosting.zaonce.net/elite/website/assets/ELITE-DANGEROUS-GAME-MANUAL.pdf
They did change the way the sensor zoom/disc scales much more recently, but I think that 40 second time horizon is very old.
So, you may well be right about it not being present at launch, but it's still well over five years old.
I can 100% believe it was intended to be in from very early on.
I can also believe it didn't work for a LONG time - without the devs knowing (as very few players knew)
I can also, also believe, it was then either "fixed" or added in through a regression "error" (but in this case... fixing an error...) at which point, players started to notice it, because it had an effect.
I've been hanging about in super cruise looking for juicy traders since 2014 - I really, honestly, noticed a -significant- change to how this effected the game not all that long ago (relative... I don't have specific time scales though) I am... fairly sure it wasn't there in early 2017 though, or at least, it didn't have the effect it does now. (I used to sit at 30kms near a star for traders to jump in - never had this issue for years)
There's also been players "noticing" the change "not that long ago" - which would be odd if it was "always there"
I'm annoyed I don't have any decent evidence to hand, and don't even have decent time scales, but it's just not something I really thought to document, as I thought it'd be hugely obvious to anyone... seems not.
It does also seem -very- suspicious to me that, all of a sudden, after the January update - commanders suddenly start noticing super cruise functionality that has been "there since the start" and even add it to the issue tracker.
It's almost as if something changed...
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Nope: This has been the Frontier/player interaction, since day one, basically.
We are mushrooms to them. Them being, generally sadists etc..
Plus 30% heat?
As Morbad has already said: It has been there a long time. If you can work it out, you will learn that with careful use of the throttle in SC, you can watch the system, see who is about and where they are going. While at the same time, awareness of your own presence, is minimal.I've not played Elite in a while - but adding stealth-like mechanics to supercruise is one thing I've wanted since about 2014.
There are other things you can do, to help reduce your visibility on the radar; such as keeping your ship, close to the far side of a Star.
Shame the mark one eyeball can still see ships whose "emissions are too low" (according to the erroneous explanation on the issue tracker) because they are a huge bright flare when at 30kms or 200c. But your sensors can't.
Aint it.
That is sort of the point.
The game requires work, thought etc.. It is not just: I have the biggest guns, the best shields and a fast and manoeuvrable ship.
It can be a cat and mouse thing. The humans are 'lucky', that the NPCs do not use line of sight, to find them. However: They will spot a 'warm slow ship', hiding behind a star; because they 'flip' through the radar targets.