About that double-engineered FSD reward for the CG...

[MrGarrett]

I agree with the OP that a very powerfull unique reward like this should be given to the top 75% of players like it was for the double engineered missile rack. Though I'd really prefer it if they stopped giving unique modules for CGs altogether. Specially if they're as OP as we think this one will be.

One of the things I loved about ED was that you could play it casually; as long as you were willing to grind for it you could always get the ship you wanted (Cobra MkIV being the exeption), the best engineered modules, the ranks or the cash you wanted. Cosmetics were another exception but as they don't change the actual gameplay I didn't think it was a big deal. Unfortunately, it seems this is changing with this new trend of CGs.

I'm relatively new to ED and I personally did my best to get to the top 25% without an FC in the limited time I had to play this event. I used an Imperial Cutter with only grade 1 FSD engineering and the insane amount of jumps required made it imposible for me to complete it in time. I searched in eddb and Inara for FCs to unload the needed comodities and found a few that were open to all. That helped a bit, but in the end the ones I found sold their loads extremely quickly and I only managed to get to the top 50% by the time the event was over. Not to mention the event was completed exceptionally quickly, otherwise I might have had a chance.

To be clear, I actually love that they're giving cool rewards for CGs. The Guardian FSD that they awarded in a recent CG was a nice idea IMO. I actually was busy IRL for that event so I missed it, but it's ok since I know I will always be able to get one if I work for it. But I think unique rewards, specially if they're powerful are an awful idea. Or at least make it possible for more people to get it because this reward was way too hard to get without owning an FC or having friends who did.

 

[Jmanis]

This is the same power gamer vs casual game mentality that has killed many games player population in the past.

That's funny because I'm as far from power gamer as you can get, especially right now.

If you are happy with such imbalances in your game just because someone else got to spend more time on it then that is fine.....do not expect the vast majority to be happy with it.

I don't, but my expectations of this community tend to be very, very low.

All I am saying is everything should be available to everyone in some fashion with the right amount of effort for the reward, and not exclusively gated behind limited timed events. People have already mentioned how its given them a negative experience and no longer participate - this should be a worrying trend for any game that has a live community.

If this was just something broadly available, I probably wouldn't have even done this event. So, how do you propose to create interesting rewards from Community Goals instead?

You originally asked "absolutely never be able to do without this" , I gave you an answer and so did some other commanders, but replying "BUT INFINITY PLUS TWO!" when someone replied with a legitimate concern does not further the discussion or help people understand your own view.

I didn't reply directly to your response, but WRT to my response to that post, I just refuse to get into a circular argument with someone posting a wishlist which is nothing more than an "INFINITY PLUS TWO" response.

I've seen plenty of responses now of "What about when X happens" producing ships with engineering of various and different combinations, because lo and behold, there isn't actually some "I WIN" godship out there that's going to satisfy everyone's needs and be the ship which dominates all activities. It simply doesn't exist, double engineering or no.

I could've responded with a counter, and I would totally expect a response of "But what about this!" ad-infinitium.

So to address your response...

Any ability to increase jump range on any ship, be it cargo hauling, pvping or exploring is a bonus - one that I have seen lots of people already mention they are after. It is simple to see how much demand there is for increased jump range by how fast this CG was completed.

Just because people want it doesn't mean they need it, and I think any concern about missing the FSD is just FOMO. If knowing someone else can jump that extra 15% is the dealbreaker for you, then I think you need to get some context on that compared to some of the things that really are broken with the game.

At the moment the fastest way to do exploration is the Anaconda - it is possible the Krait Phantom with this FSD will outperform here. Lots of people complain about the Anaconda due to its lumbering nature - something the Phantom will be better at if this FSD works the way many people think it will. Additionally if you are Neutron jumping then the additional mobility in the Phantom will really help over the Anaconda.

There are other cases where increased range helps but I'd rather not turn this post into an epic.

So what? If you want the Phantom, use the Phantom. If you want the Anaconda, use the Anaconda. You say "outperform"... I guess you're boiling down the quality of an exploration vessel being purely a factor of jump range... and again, the FC wins that race, and that's accessible to anyone. It's not like what was on short-term offer was a research limpet capable of doing biopsies from Anomalies to acquire Anomaly Particles, which is something nobody has been able to do yet... or an exclusive hover-SRV.

Let me rephrase my question. If not having this 15% boost is a dealbreaker for you, how did you function in the game before?

 

[alexzk]

Last 2 CGs look a bit dumb as for rewarding. They reward most ppl who needs reward less.
For example prev top-10 ...well, most people were fighting to get rank to buy big ship(s). And fun is, getting top-10 was near impossible if you don't have one.
With FSD - that was a slap. While I had 20 hours break out of elite they kicked me out of 25% by 1000t and finished CG totally. On Sunday.
I think I'm done with GCs. Not a fun.

 

[Zannry]

Selfishly I submit, my only issue with modules as rewards is the 120 storage cap. I'm dangerously close to the max again and have already lost track of the dozen or so storage ships pulling double work acting as system bookmarks. Whether you are in the 25% is "too few CMDRs" camp or "just right" I think we can all agree the 120 module cap needs a bump. Same for actual bookmarks. I'm always running out of those too and can't be the only one.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

“I don’t like this because I don’t have it, so nobody should have it.”

lol ok.

As if someone out in the boonies with a maxed-out FSD really needs that extra fast boot mod anyway. It doesn’t add any range, only a tiny bit of survivability— not enough to save the average paper mache asp explorer anyway.

It doesn’t affect standard FSD cooldown or spool time whatsoever— only the power-up process when toggling power manually, automatically via priorities, or when affected by a weapon effect.

This will not make you explore any faster.

Edit to add: This FSD, on the other hand, is especially useful for AX pilots. Armored plants are very common for AX activities, and guardian weapons can’t be engineered for effeciency— it’s not uncommon for their FSDs to power down when hardpoints are deployed. When you’re fighting goids, that long reboot can be deadly if you have to punch out.

 

[aRJay]

I agree with the OP that a very powerfull unique reward like this should be given to the top 75% of players like it was for the double engineered missile rack. Though I'd really prefer it if they stopped giving unique modules for CGs altogether. Specially if they're as OP as we think this one will be.
....

The people upset about the game being unbalanced by these rewards due to their limited access should be just as upset if the level was set at 75% after all that excludes 25% of the participants as well as all of those that didn’t get the chance to play.

Personally if the FSD is overpowered enough to make a difference I think it is better that it is available to less than 2,000 commanders as the odds of them affecting my game and enjoyment are remote enough not to trouble me.

 

[Tikanderoga]

One of the things I loved about ED was that you could play it casually; as long as you were willing to grind for it you could always get the ship you wanted (Cobra MkIV being the exeption), the best engineered modules, the ranks or the cash you wanted. Cosmetics were another exception but as they don't change the actual gameplay I didn't think it was a big deal. Unfortunately, it seems this is changing with this new trend of CGs.

This is an MMO, and just like many other MMOs, if there is an event with a reward, and you miss the event for whatever reason, you will miss out on the reward.
Sad but true, and the game's motivation for you is based on the Fear of missing out - also known as FOMO.

While I see your point, that it's not exactly fair to those missing out, or getting knocked out of the top25% by x tons in the last minute, it's a game, and the other person put x effort more in than the kicked one. These things happen.

When the CG was at 85%, I had over 30k delivered, I opened up my carrier to get other commanders grab my remaining items. I posted it in chat, went back to my carrier, everyone seemed to have arrived at the same time: the entire stock went within a second.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Sure. Three years from now, one ship from a dedicated CG player has the following on their FDL:

It's going to take a lot longer than that, though - these modules are coming at ~1/month, say - and they're not designed to work together on the same ship - any ship large enough to benefit from the FSD from this one is far too large for the mass difference between the Eurybia missile launcher and a standard high-cap launcher to be relevant.

Building a ship out of all the CG modules might be practical, but it's quite possible that because they'll all be horribly mismatched, it'll be a less powerful ship in practice than a coherently-built single-engineered one. (some modules undersized, others that just don't work well together)

And in three years time there'll probably be enough power creep elsewhere that it won't matter anyway.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

There are no modules, CG related or legacy, that give another player a significant advantage over another in combat.

3.0 engineering made a vast majority of weapons and defenses more powerful than they were with the old system.

Assuming there are some odd defensive or offensive legacy mods floating around out there, they aren’t enough to make or break you. They will not be the deciding factor in an engagement, assuming the opponent is up to 3.0 spec.

With 3.0 engineering, a new baseline was established. We all have access to the same stuff, assuming we put in the time to unlock it.

The exception, in this case, being a module that affects neither your ship’s offensive or defensive capability in any significant way.

 

[CMDR Serra]

...
Edit to add: This FSD, on the other hand, is especially useful for AX pilots. Armored plants are very common for AX activities, and guardian weapons can’t be engineered for effeciency— it’s not uncommon for their FSDs to power down when hardpoints are deployed. When you’re fighting goids, that long reboot can be deadly if you have to punch out.

Kinda, but the new FSD will be a paper thin module with much lower integrity, higher power draw, thermal load and mass. It'll just jump further.

I reckon you'd be better off with simple Faster Boot Sequence and use a FC to get you where you're going. That way you just get -15% integrity and 20% thermal load for the faster boot.

 

[alexzk]

This is an MMO, and just like many other MMOs, if there is an event with a reward, and you miss the event for whatever reason, you will miss out on the reward.
Sad but true, and the game's motivation for you is based on the Fear of missing out - also known as FOMO.

1. In other MMOs reward anyhow is related to others. For example everybody see your nice skin. Or you kill em better. While Elite has Solo + reward itself "personal use only".
2. In other MMOs events never end prior date. They could be extended above date. Most shocking for me was end of GC on Sunday.
That was sort of manipulation. Carrier owners (some) were paying for load/unload with small fee for fuel only. So that owner was not getting a thing from CG. However countelss traders could end CG extra fast, just moving between such carriers. And in fact they got most bonus. Because if somebody was loading/unloading own carrier - he was slower

 

[Troopi]

I'm fine with it, as long as the game doesn't start selling unique modules with ARX. If they are a reward from special events, it's fine. Many MMO's do that.
If you need the competition, then go and do the special events, and get that reward.
If not, if you only play Pve, just chillax. If you don't have time to do the event, don't do it. You don't need OP modules to deal with NPCs.

 

[Vic Dorn]

If you are competing with another player, then if all else is equal, the player who has the overpowered exclusive item will win over the other. To answer your specific question, you will never be able to win then.

Nothing else is equal, not the knowledge nor the skills or the preferences how to outfit a ship. You have commanders who kill interceptors in sidewinders. I am still far from that skill-level, no matter what ship i use. Success depends on personal possibilities, not on any nice-to-have toys.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Kinda, but the new FSD will be a paper thin module with much lower integrity, higher power draw, thermal load and mass. It'll just jump further.

I reckon you'd be better off with simple Faster Boot Sequence and use a FC to get you where you're going. That way you just get -15% integrity and 20% thermal load for the faster boot.

I’m actually kinda curious to see what the integrity stats are like, but if it’s anything like the last module, you’re probably right.

So far I’m running a regular increased range on the FDS, and a shielded on the Conda. Haven’t lost the FSD in either case yet— them goidbois always seem to take the canopy or my shield generator if anything.

 

[G4RY]

I'm not being rude here or anything but I'm not reading through all of these pages tbh, i have got the gist of people arguing and actually leaving the game because of this CG reward... in multiple places. Which is just mental tbf.

Still.. I'm super failing to see how a double engineered FSD ruins the game for anyone else who doesn't have it.

 

[Numenor1379]

I'm not being rude here or anything but I'm not reading through all of these pages tbh, i have got the gist of people arguing and actually leaving the game because of this CG reward... in multiple places. Which is just mental tbf.

Still.. I'm super failing to see how a double engineered FSD ruins the game for anyone else who doesn't have it.

The issue is that it has the possibility of giving those Top 25% of players a jump range impossible for anyone else to equal. Unlike in the past, there will be a permanent wall to anyone trying to max their range unable to be overcome.

It was exactly for this reason the 3.0 FSD engineering was increased. Not because of power creep (though that is what it was), but because it let everyone have equal access to FSDs better than the old max God Roll possible. If you didn't max your engineering it was on you, but the max range is always possible.

IF the Optimal Mass stats stack (and we do not know if they will) this will be a permanent God Roll there is no way to match. Even in the 2.0 engineering system you had the chance to get that God Roll if you did enough rolls. That is the problem.

I'm hoping the Devs are smart enough to realize this and just use the Optimal Mass stat the Increased Range gives. That way there will be no range inflation.

 

[Danieros]

The issue is that it has the possibility of giving those Top 25% of players a jump range impossible for anyone else to equal. Unlike in the past, there will be a permanent wall to anyone trying to max their range unable to be overcome.

It was exactly for this reason the 3.0 FSD engineering was increased. Not because of power creep (though that is what it was), but because it let everyone have equal access to FSDs better than the old max God Roll possible. If you didn't max your engineering it was on you, but the max range is always possible.

IF the Optimal Mass stats stack (and we do not know if they will) this will be a permanent God Roll there is no way to match. Even in the 2.0 engineering system you had the chance to get that God Roll if you did enough rolls. That is the problem.

I'm hoping the Devs are smart enough to realize this and just use the Optimal Mass stat the Increased Range gives. That way there will be no range inflation.

The max range is currently 500 ly from a FC and this module will not change that.

 

[Numenor1379]

The max range is currently 500 ly from a FC and this module will not change that.

FCs are a separate category not governed by engineered internal modules.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

This reward module likely doesn’t provide any range benefit beyond what’s already available, it just powers on faster.

If there’s any magical legacy modules out there, the benefit they give is negligible at best.

If you’re jumping 75.4ly, and someone is jumping 75.7, what difference does it make?

 

[Kort]

A quick question about this FSD. Since faster boot time and extended range are both primary engineering modifications will I be able to take it to an engineer and add the experimental effect of mass manager which would be great?