Pirate MM's post balance test

[Ian Doncaster]

I wish credits per hour was irrelevant and we did things in this game because they were fun...

Well, conversely if you do stuff because it's fun, the credits per hour is irrelevant, because everything pays quite a lot and by the time you've done you'll be rich.

I was making ~100M/week before the rebalance. I've made - with no real change of activity - about 400M so far this week. It's been fun regardless of the money, and having been doing this for months (because it's fun for me) I have all the money I need too.

 

[Ydiss]

Yeh the thing about credits is there's no cap so someone earning 5m credits an hour will be a billionaire after 8.33 days playing (200 hours)... Now, that's a lot of time doing one thing. But the point is pretty clear... the game has been going for over 6 years. Nothing could ever stop inflation, so all that's really left is to make sure that newer players get a nice sence of progression and that's really it. Once you're "past it", having to battle it out for credits in the short term seems a pointless way to balance a game.

I like the way Fdev are just freeing this up but aiming to keep things in check a bit. I just think the hourly rate comparisons are far too subjective for any real use. If nothing else changes, the commanders willing to look for, set up and repeat max meta methods just get credits faster.

I'm up for revamping systems to enhance the experience. Just don't see any benefit of excessively narrowing player agency to force a set upper limit of x credits per y time frame. It gets to the point of anti fun if you take it too far.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Same as Ian, I used to stack MM's and a sprinkling of assasinations before the balance as it was my preferred activity.

It offered a nice balance of enjoyment, credits and engineer mats.

Had the balance only affected the bounty side of things then a few more million credits an hour wouldn't have changed it overly as it was already in a good place.

The changes to the MM's are the bit that's pushed it OTT.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Wing massacre missions: Halve reward, Halve number of targets
Solo massacre missions: Quarter reward (yes, reduce them compared to what they currently are), Halve number of targets
Wing and Solo CZ Massacres: Fix the bug where Wing massacres have a higher per-kill reward than solo
Solo CZ Massacres: Halve number of targets (after fixing reward ratio)
Wing CZ Massacres: Halve number of targets (after fixing reward ratio)
Assassinations: Good change, leave
Wing Assassinations: Double reward (8-10m for Allied)
Bounties for Vanilla Kills: Keep as-is
Bounties for Engineered Targets: Quadruple payouts

Sounds about right to me.

Atm there's absolutely no point taking on wing assasinations or wing pirate MM's over the solo versions.

A lot more effort and risk for very little, if any, extra reward.

 

[Old Duck]

So what you're saying is, if I want to make some money bounty hunting, I better do it now before it gets nerfed.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

So what you're saying is, if I want to make some money bounty hunting, I better do it now before it gets nerfed.

All that elephant butt leather won't pay for itself

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

Make sure the target system for the massacres has a haz. Rearm with basic synth mats.

Go check out Rowley Port in LHS 277, Jahn Dock in Momoirent, and Lind Terminal in Varaya (They're all about 30'ish LY from Jameson Memorial). Pirate massacres targetting Mbutsi Jet Syndicate in Mbutsi, which has maybe 5 or 6 haz to choose from. Rowley Port has been a bit skint with massacre contracts the last week or so, with factions more concerned with wars, but its usually pretty easy to get 15-20 missions in the stack with just one quick stop per station and not waiting for a mission board refresh.

Thanks for advice, but I'm not crazy enough to do that, hopefully ever again. Extremely boring "activities" and I don't really need any credits.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

What we have atm isn't right.

Agree completely. Thanks for drawing attention to the problem of mission stacking.

 

[CMDR D Noize]

Honestly, while I think stacking Massacres with the recent combat buff is a little bit over the top in terms of profits I have just made over a billion credits in a few days shooting pirates, which is a welcome change to endless hours staring at rocks for that kind of coin.

So I’m gonna sit on my big pile of money while I decide what toys to spend it all on and enjoy combat buff while it lasts.

 

[KW001]

Agree completely. Thanks for drawing attention to the problem of mission stacking.

Im about to head out to check what the new missions pay outs are like, but I think pirate massacre stacking was at a perfectly fine spot prior to the update. To hit something like 100 to 150 per hour required a bit of leg work to find the right location where enough factions were handing out massacres targeting the same pirate faction. Even finding such a location wasnt a guarantee you'd always be able to make that level of money as minor factions being in different states each week means they'd sometimes be handing out other missions types instead of pirate massacres (edit: Perfect example here, just stopped by Jahn Dock, Rowley Port & Lind Terminal looking for pirate massacres in Mbutsi and only one faction had a single massacre on offer). Also, never was quite sure if it was a coincidence or by design, but the only spots I ever found that hit 150 per hour also included a 20 minute trip out to a HAZ in the target system.

 

[Miko]

Do Frontier ever balance a thing? Even with their new balance approach they don't tend to bring balance. Bounty hunting pays a lot now, which in my opinion makes it worthwhile hunting at a res site or whatever, but it really isn't too insane as it is harder for players at the lower grade of experience and ship hardiness. It does however knock the balance of some missions and powerplay out of whack, though.

 

[KW001]

Ok yeah, 41 million for a 30 kill solo pirate massacre seems a bit excessive, even Im willing to admit that.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Ok yeah, 41 million for a 30 kill solo pirate massacre seems a bit excessive, even Im willing to admit that.

On its own that's not too bad........ you could probably manage two of those an hour back to back, if they functioned like CZ MM's as the targets are easier to kill.

As @Jmanis and I are keen to point out though it's the stacking nature of these missions that allows for the broken earnings.

The tools are already out there to find these systems, allowing players to "potentially" multiply those earnings by upto a factor of eight.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Do Frontier ever balance a thing? Even with their new balance approach they don't tend to bring balance. Bounty hunting pays a lot now, which in my opinion makes it worthwhile hunting at a res site or whatever, but it really isn't too insane as it is harder for players at the lower grade of experience and ship hardiness. It does however knock the balance of some missions and powerplay out of whack, though.

Regardless of their history, they are making changes now which is why it is so important that broken cases like the pirate MM's are highlighted.

If nothing changes then expect to see < insert YT'er name here > showing how to earn over 500m/hr through combat in the near future.

This is surely not intended, and as the balancing is still ongoing now is the time to get it brought back inline.

 

[KW001]

On its own that's not too bad........ you could probably manage two of those an hour back to back, if they functioned like CZ MM's as the targets are easier to kill.

As @Jmanis and I are keen to point out though it's the stacking nature of these missions that allows for the broken earnings.

The tools are already out there to find these systems, allowing players to "potentially" multiply those earnings by upto a factor of eight.

I'll check out the massacre spots I've got tagged over the next week or so, but so far Ive only managed to grab 3 of the 40 million solo massacres down in Pleiades Nebula from 3 factions in 6 station stops looking for Ant Hill Mob massacres in Maia. 19 Massacres total, 7 wing, and the others were solos offering 20 million or below. Im allied with all the factions I collected from except 1, which is currently at friendly status.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Damn, 11 systems offering MM's for Maia only!

I like sourcing my missions in just the one spot so that's a bit more hopping around and prep work than I prefer.

I suppose it means they never dry up, but do you get many hyperdictions as you travel around?

PVE

edtools.cc

 

[KW001]

Damn, 11 systems offering MM's for Maia only!

I like sourcing my missions in just the one spot so that's a bit more hopping around and prep work than I prefer.

I suppose it means they never dry up, but do you get many hyperdictions as you travel around?

PVE

edtools.cc

1 or 2 usually. Maybe 3 if you're unlucky. Pretty much guaranteed heading out of Stargazer.

I stumbled on the Ant Hill Mob massacres about a week after 3.0, Feb 2018 if I remember correctly. For 12 to 18 months they were solid and each trip down you only needed to scout which systems had the most contracts on offer that week and you'd be able to collect 2 missions per faction from 2 or 3 station stops, with a roughly even kill count per faction for the stack. Round final half of 2019 Ant Hill Mob lost control of Maia and the amount of contracts on offer dried up considerably. It got to the point where'd Id spend more time station hopping looking for massacres and then spending 20 minutes in supercruise out to the Maia HAZ than I would in the HAZ completing the missions, so I eventually stopped coming down here on a regular basis.

 

[zipline]

Well I for one welcome this buff. MM stacking has been around forever and will get fixed when it gets fixed, so lets not be calling for the nerf bat because of that.

 

[STARFIRE REVMEUP]

Much of it has already been fixed...

Here is the thing. people are already saying stacking 8 gets you 300 million.... ok that is true... BUT... and its a BIG BUT.... FD back in the day did a pass so such missions do not show up as often.

It really does take quite a bit of effort and TIME to collect those missions for 8 factions.... its not like you can get 300 an hour like MINING did. also.... it gets BORING..... MORE BORING than MINING.

Now... if there are a few systems left that could do that... maybe that should be looked at.

ALSO.... unlike MINING... you have to level up all those ALLIES. Be HIGH RANKED and in good standing. And you still have to do all the killing

 

[VirtueXOI]

Considering that, I still don't see Massacres vastly winning over Mining yet in terms of profits. Mission stacking can be reliable, but still RNG, and re-arming after every engagement, which adds to travel time, makes it slower. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying targets should be easier, because I still find it very stupid that as sole CMDR you are able to take out 10+ ships alone, without even letting your shield drop.

Considering that core minign is broken atm , and that max painite price are 300K average for sell (current is 240K ). you'r at 75mil/h mining with ONLY mining ( not selling or looking for selling place). and i'm being really positive , as you have to mine 250t/H and find selling prot at 300Kfast and easy. if not you'll be reduced to something like ... 40 or 50mil/H

Dont joke me ,that with 10mil/ship without bounty you'r doing less than that . Thx.