Large Shock Cannon Anemic?

[Kamiyoda]

You can snipe long distance with them with slow aimed shots, doesn't actually do much though. You are better off just spanking the target at point blank. Corvette assassination targets in a couple of passes, the damage stacking does seem to make a difference.

The only requirement for me is that they are fun and a bit different, like plasma chargers or a speed build sidey.

Hey I use them too, doesnt make them any better though. Im not saying they aren't fun but something can be fun and still be objectively worse than every other alternative.

Or look at it this way, I want the ammo to increase so I dont have to keep interrupting my fun to reload.

 

[Stigbob]

Hey I use them too, doesnt make them any better though. Im not saying they aren't fun but something can be fun and still be objectively worse than every other alternative.

Or look at it this way, I want the ammo to increase so I dont have to keep interrupting my fun to reload.

Open letter time !. I've no objection to an ammo increase, or a damage buff.

 

[Kamiyoda]

Open letter time !. I've no objection to an ammo increase, or a damage buff.

Remember when these things were going to have 100% absolute damage?

 

[Stigbob]

Remember when these things were going to have 100% absolute damage?

People demanded a nerf IIRC, then a buff. Whilst griping about having to jump for twenty minutes to get to the ruins as being an unbearably long distance to cover that only people with no life could ever do.

The endless cycle of ED.

 

[Ydiss]

Its only a 25% increase in damage, they would be trash even in the vanilla version of the game.

Still better than Enzyme missiles.

Agreed. It was only a facetious comment really. I like charts and that one tells a pretty blatant story. It's the reason my main PvE ship is a frag boat.

I want it different. But accept it never will be. So I just take the red pill.

 

[CMDR The Riz]

[...] and will overheat your ship on top of it.

Yeah, about that...

I like charts and that one tells a pretty blatant story.

This one is even more blatant:

Granted that's if you're firing at the maximum fire rate of 10 rounds per second, which is easily achieved either by spam-firing or a macro. Even at half that rate the Thermal Load is roughly 2.7x that of Frag Cannons.

There's a whole lot that's wrong with these Shock Cannons.

 

[Stigbob]

Yeah, about that...



This one is even more blatant:

View attachment 197872

Granted that's if you're firing at the maximum fire rate of 10 rounds per second, which is easily achieved either by spam-firing or a macro. Even at half that rate the Thermal Load is roughly 2.7x that of Frag Cannons.

There's a whole lot that's wrong with these Shock Cannons.

Drop a heatsink between passes, it also messes with their targeting of you.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'd love a mild reverb effect on these- say 1/16 of a torpedo. Then the limited ammo and drawbacks would balance out.

 

[Thomas Wagner]

I am pretty sure you guys miss something, i can't tell but there are so many numbers you have to consider using a weapon in Elite.

I have one large Shock Cannon on my Anaconda, i use them in conjuction with my 3 ( 1 huge+2 large) multi-cannons and i like it.

 

[Deio]

I am pretty sure you guys miss something, i can't tell but there are so many numbers you have to consider using a weapon in Elite.

I have one large Shock Cannon on my Anaconda, i use them in conjuction with my 3 ( 1 huge+2 large) multi-cannons and i like it.

You are right, the Shock Cannon is useful only in conjunction with other weapons. And people that whine that it overheats the ship, have no idea that they can be used with even G1 Beams thermal vent and keep the heat manageable. Plus, there always exists heatsinks ...
These weapons are not to be used daily as common weapons. I have no idea when they were introduced, but they are a niched powerful weapons that paired with thermal vents or heatsinks, can make a huge difference on a miner or a trader, that are harder to put defended modules, as the module space is used for cargo.
People that whine about total damage also are missing the point that these are not for HAZ Res or CZ or other types of prolonged sessions. Lasers + plasma slugs are best for that.
These cannons are for escaping interdictions from pirates, are a means of protections for truckers. Sure, you can put frags, but these have 2.5km falloff, more than frags and multis.
For a trader with weaker hardpoints, this is the way to go. Example a T9 that has only 3 L2 and 2 L1 which are useless anyways. The L2's can be 3 shocks and L1 some beams just for heat vents and you will win every pirate interdiction. Without those, there is no weapon that can damage enough any ship, because T9 is like a whale. At least, you can point and fire, most pirates will die almost instantly.

 

[Vedmo]

Haha see...

Deio
[IMG alt="Deio"]https://d2aefvhu2f0gi9.cloudfront.net/data/avatars/m/260/260550.jpg?1603798440[/IMG]
Nov 20, 2020

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• #17

Shock cannons are not for Res. They are for assasinations. Best weapons for taking down even the strongest foe. I tried them, they eat hull like midnight snack. If you want something strong in short time, they are the best. Or for trading protection, on a Python, deadly ...

That's exactly how I use them. One of my cargo Pythons has a Large thermal vent beam on the bottom and 4 shock cannons on top. The only combat it ever sees are npc pirates. Recently had an elite Type-10 encounter, took 3 passes to to destroy it and heat was never an issue.

 

[Kamiyoda]

People demanded a nerf IIRC, then a buff. Whilst griping about having to jump for twenty minutes to get to the ruins as being an unbearably long distance to cover that only people with no life could ever do.

The endless cycle of ED.

Breaks out violin

The ciirrcle of whhiinnnneee

You are right, the Shock Cannon is useful only in conjunction with other weapons. And people that whine that it overheats the ship, have no idea that they can be used with even G1 Beams thermal vent and keep the heat manageable. Plus, there always exists heatsinks ...
These weapons are not to be used daily as common weapons. I have no idea when they were introduced, but they are a niched powerful weapons that paired with thermal vents or heatsinks, can make a huge difference on a miner or a trader, that are harder to put defended modules, as the module space is used for cargo.
People that whine about total damage also are missing the point that these are not for HAZ Res or CZ or other types of prolonged sessions. Lasers + plasma slugs are best for that.
These cannons are for escaping interdictions from pirates, are a means of protections for truckers. Sure, you can put frags, but these have 2.5km falloff, more than frags and multis.
For a trader with weaker hardpoints, this is the way to go. Example a T9 that has only 3 L2 and 2 L1 which are useless anyways. The L2's can be 3 shocks and L1 some beams just for heat vents and you will win every pirate interdiction. Without those, there is no weapon that can damage enough any ship, because T9 is like a whale. At least, you can point and fire, most pirates will die almost instantly.

They do overheat the ship faster than any other weapon, its not whining when your pointing out an objective fact.

The fastest way to win an interdiction is to just beat the minigame. Its not that hard, even in a Type-9.

This is all moot however, because when they came out I already said they are decent for slapping on a non combat ship, doesnt make any of the issues with them go away.

Its not like a weapon has to be literally useless before anyone is allowed to critique its flaws.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I've unlocked only the gimballed size 1/2/3 versions, and while fun the biggest drawback is the ammo count and heat generation. Haven't used them since, but I will give them another go on my assassination Krait Mk2, although not really sure how they could beat the G5'd triple Pacifiers I'm using on that (plus two torp racks in the medium hardpoints).

 

[Kamiyoda]

I've unlocked only the gimballed size 1/2/3 versions, and while fun the biggest drawback is the ammo count and heat generation. Haven't used them since, but I will give them another go on my assassination Krait Mk2, although not really sure how they could beat the G5'd triple Pacifiers I'm using on that (plus two torp racks in the medium hardpoints).

That reminds me, does anyone use the fixed version of these things?

 

[Deleted member 182079]

That reminds me, does anyone use the fixed version of these things?

I never bothered unlocking them after I tested the gimballed ones. Bit cheeky of FDev to make the player unlock them all separately.

 

[Vedmo]

That reminds me, does anyone use the fixed version of these things?

I unlocked fixed first and with the jitter it was too much for me. Some time later out of boredom I went back and got gimbals.

 

[N3rd Murd3r3r]

I stick these on most my trading/non combat focussed ships...sorry. As others have said, they’re not for the HAZ REZ/CZ.

Get close, heatsink, spam trigger, other ship dies quickly. You can get through about 3/4 ‘elite’ level targets that harass you on missions etc before arriving at station for a restock.

Maybe not the most effective weapon, but they look different/cool, encourage a modest amount of skill, a slight change of tack and aren’t the beam/multi PVE meta.

IMHO anyway.

 

[cyberus]

For anyone still wondering why Shock Cannons feel anemic (specifically the Class 3 ones, per the thread title)...

View attachment 197816

... that's why.

Really? Large multie‘s dish out 14 and 10k? Last time I have checked my NPC did die from boredom waiting my multie’s to spin up before they start actually firing. All those fancy numbers can go down the toiled in evasive npc combat situations.

 

[CMDR The Riz]

And people that whine that it overheats the ship, have no idea that they can be used with even G1 Beams thermal vent and keep the heat manageable. Plus, there always exists heatsinks ...

Thermal Vent, heatsinks and Low Emissions Powerplants can indeed help mitigate the thermal problems with Shock Cannons; in my view, however, a weapon shouldn't rely on Engineering or a utility slot to reduce the Thermal Load to make it usable. (Looking at you, Gauss Cannons... and Imperial Hammers... )

I am fine with weapons that have drawbacks - just not ones that cripple the weapon from the start, of which the Shock Cannon has several.

These weapons are not to be used daily as common weapons. I have no idea when they were introduced, but they are a niched powerful weapons that paired with thermal vents or heatsinks, can make a huge difference on a miner or a trader, that are harder to put defended modules, as the module space is used for cargo.

Shock Cannons were introduced as part of the 3.0 update back around the Summer of 2018. I tested them extensively in the 3.0 Beta and posted my initial findings in the February of that year. That thread can be found here.

I have recently created a spreadsheet to compare Shock Cannons to their Kinetic counterparts; it can be found here. (As with any data I generate, feel free to double-check my numbers. Keep in mind that they represent ideal conditions.)

The graphs in the spreadsheet show that Shock Cannons currently have too many drawbacks to be a compelling choice even against their stock peers, and especially when hardpoints are limited in both number and size.

As a general TL-DR for the spreadsheet, Shock Cannons have:

1. The second highest DPS of all Kinetic Weapons
2. The highest Heat Per Second of all Kinetic Weapons
3. The highest Distributor Draw Per Second of all Kinetic Weapons
4. The lowest Potential Damage of all Kinetic Weapons*

*Gimballed Smalls actually have slightly more Potential Damage than Stock Gimballed Small Multicannons - by 6.4 MJ.

People that whine about total damage also are missing the point that these are not for HAZ Res or CZ or other types of prolonged sessions. Lasers + plasma slugs are best for that.

I use REZ sites and Nav Beacons as targets are plentiful and come in various configurations for testing purposes. The data presented in the spreadsheet above holds regardless of the activity in question. I am glad that a number of players have found a use for Shock Cannons - my aim here is to make them better

That reminds me, does anyone use the fixed version of these things?

Sheepishly raises hand

I've used both variants. Fixed are very good on ships with good hardpoint convergence; Gimbals are good on ships like the Mamba. Here's a Shock Cannon Mamba build I tested a few weeks ago:

Not my best flying and my accuracy could be better, but it gets the point across. Needs a heatsink, but I'd probably run out of those before I run out of Shock Cannon ammo. The build that I used in this video can be found here.

Really? Large multie‘s dish out 14 and 10k? Last time I have checked my NPC did die from boredom waiting my multie’s to spin up before they start actually firing. All those fancy numbers can go down the toiled in evasive npc combat situations.

Yes, actually. However, that is raw potential damage and doesn't account for your target's resistances. Or evasiveness.

 

[Deio]

Nice video It's good to see those in action. I have tested them out of curiosity in a HAZ res agains deadly Anacondas, Put 3 L3 in my Anaconda and some lasers, any Anaconda didn't stood a chance, they could use a heat reduction from fdev ... I am thinking of them putting in my mining Cutter, as I only am left with the 4H and 2L for guns and need to maximize the damage on only 3 hardpoints, having no PP weapons, the rest are for deep cores. That is if they will ever fix the PWA ...
They would be used to escape interdictions, a Cutter is always interdicted by a deadly Anaconda and/or deadly T10, at least I alyways was, even as harmless, Elite has a sense of humor, or the devs. If I managed to kill the Anaconda with the 3 hardpoints, poof, a wing formed from a deadly Anaconda and a T10, because the game has a morbid sense of humor, if a NPC can't kill you, more will come, stronger. That's why I need maximum damage in 3 hardpoints and I found no other better combination to deal huge damage in short amount of time. PA are good, tried them, but not when you have more than 1 big ship after you. A T10 can't be missed with PA's, my poor aim hits them every time and I have a thing with the T10, I was destroyed by one, so when I see a wanted T10, he gets it.