So cross-faction massacre + assassination stacking is the surviving meta?

Max Bothin

Max Bothin
yesterday:

new player "Taygeta, 2 billion credits, have 30 ships, have a Cutter (after 2 days of play), have a Corvette, I am sad, because of nerf Taygeta, want FC"
me: "I have seen dozens of people like you come, grind, and leave game forever"
new player "want more credits"
me: "ok, come in wing, share mission, give credits"
new player: "ok, thank you, I will come to your system and get the money"
me....

watching the players symbol, while he was trying to leave the station with his cutter...blue...red....destroyed...

new player: "oh no! I can´t fly this new cutter very well"

me....

silence
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Max Bothin said:
yesterday:

new player "Taygeta, 2 billion credits, have 30 ships, have a Cutter (after 2 days of play), have a Corvette, I am sad, because of nerf Taygeta, want FC"
me: "I have seen dozens of people like you come, grind, and leave game forever"
new player "want more credits"
me: "ok, come in wing, share mission, give credits"
new player: "ok, thank you, I will come to your system and get the money"
me....

watching the players symbol, while he was trying to leave the station with his cutter...blue...red....destroyed...

new player: "oh no! I can´t fly this new cutter very well"

me....

silence
Click to expand...
Working as intended :LOL:
 

jonesskill

jonesskill
Max Bothin said:
yesterday:

new player "Taygeta, 2 billion credits, have 30 ships, have a Cutter (after 2 days of play), have a Corvette, I am sad, because of nerf Taygeta, want FC"
me: "I have seen dozens of people like you come, grind, and leave game forever"
new player "want more credits"
me: "ok, come in wing, share mission, give credits"
new player: "ok, thank you, I will come to your system and get the money"
me....

watching the players symbol, while he was trying to leave the station with his cutter...blue...red....destroyed...

new player: "oh no! I can´t fly this new cutter very well"

me....

silence
Click to expand...
Nice fanfic man.
LOL, kidding... i know its true, i has there... i am the station.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
This thread is all over the place :)

Re: Cross-stacking massacres - this should go, as it makes balancing so hard.
Re: Stacking massacre+ assassinations ... I'm ok with that - I'm guessing it doesn't scale as well (even if you stack 19 assassinations vs 1 19-ship massacre you presumably only get that one massacre 'for free'?)

I can kinda understand people lusting for CR when starting the game - I am perplexed though by players with multiple 20B+ CMDRs (with FCs) who complain about mining being nerfed ... what are they doing with all that money? Almost sounds pathological.

OTOH I abused 2 things this week - Metal Missions for 1B and the CG for another 1B. Then spent the rest of the week burning CR doing daft stuff, and will spend the rest on Tritium to resupply my DSSA carrier. So I'll end up back on 0 CR :ROFLMAO: (Ok, maybe its me thats pathological ;) )
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Factabulous said:
This thread is all over the place :)

Re: Cross-stacking massacres - this should go, as it makes balancing so hard.
Re: Stacking massacre+ assassinations ... I'm ok with that - I'm guessing it doesn't scale as well (even if you stack 19 assassinations vs 1 19-ship massacre you presumably only get that one massacre 'for free'?)

I can kinda understand people lusting for CR when starting the game - I am perplexed though by players with multiple 20B+ CMDRs (with FCs) who complain about mining being nerfed ... what are they doing with all that money? Almost sounds pathological.

OTOH I abused 2 things this week - Metal Missions for 1B and the CG for another 1B. Then spent the rest of the week burning CR doing daft stuff, and will spend the rest on Tritium to resupply my DSSA carrier. So I'll end up back on 0 CR :ROFLMAO: (Ok, maybe its me thats pathological ;) )
Click to expand...
Remember, the surface bases and suits and handguns in Odyssey will cost Trillions.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Factabulous said:
This thread is all over the place :)

Re: Cross-stacking massacres - this should go, as it makes balancing so hard.
Re: Stacking massacre+ assassinations ... I'm ok with that - I'm guessing it doesn't scale as well (even if you stack 19 assassinations vs 1 19-ship massacre you presumably only get that one massacre 'for free'?)
Click to expand...
Yup, both those sound sane.
 

jonesskill

jonesskill
Factabulous said:
This thread is all over the place :)

Re: Cross-stacking massacres - this should go, as it makes balancing so hard.
Re: Stacking massacre+ assassinations ... I'm ok with that - I'm guessing it doesn't scale as well (even if you stack 19 assassinations vs 1 19-ship massacre you presumably only get that one massacre 'for free'?)

I can kinda understand people lusting for CR when starting the game - I am perplexed though by players with multiple 20B+ CMDRs (with FCs) who complain about mining being nerfed ... what are they doing with all that money? Almost sounds pathological.

OTOH I abused 2 things this week - Metal Missions for 1B and the CG for another 1B. Then spent the rest of the week burning CR doing daft stuff, and will spend the rest on Tritium to resupply my DSSA carrier. So I'll end up back on 0 CR :ROFLMAO: (Ok, maybe its me thats pathological ;) )
Click to expand...
I just dont see the point of destroying some aspect of the game that someone probably like just to attend some people demands.
I always agreed that combat SHOULD be the best CR/H option, but i never tought they will DESTROY every another activity to achieve this.
Mining (Specially selling) right now is a nightmare.
Delivery missions dont have any purpose besides BGS now. (And that trick to exploit the cargo and make free money, that requires a carrier)
Has always, what seems to be a good idea got FDEVED and got implemented like the EGGEXPLOIT fix. (Fixing one thing, Broke another 20 things )

Dunno, just lame.
I dont get why they dont do things right.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
jonesskill said:
I just dont see the point of destroying some aspect of the game that someone probably like just to attend some people demands.
I always agreed that combat SHOULD be the best CR/H option, but i never tought they will DESTROY every another activity to achieve this.
Mining (Specially selling) right now is a nightmare.
Delivery missions dont have any purpose besides BGS now. (And that trick to exploit the cargo and make free money, that requires a carrier)
Has always, what seems to be a good idea got FDEVED and got implemented like the EGGEXPLOIT fix. (Fixing one thing, Broke another 20 things )

Dunno, just lame.
I dont get why they dont do things right.
Click to expand...
I think it's still in flux, sadly you need a lot of patience with this game :(

Once the PWA is fixed mining will be in a better place - though it sounds like finding a market is too hard right now. And missions will hopefully be tweaked again, that seems to have gone wrong.

Still glad they're trying - the game has been out of balance for a long time.
 
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sqzbox1

S
Now that it has all been balanced I reckon they should divide all rewards for everything by 10. It's all crazy high right now and makes a mockery of trying to be a sim. It's just nonsensical.
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
jonesskill said:
Dunno, just lame.
I dont get why they dont do things right.
Click to expand...
If they did things right they would return earnings back to first year rates (this is what all the costs were balanced on, which haven't changed in 5 years). Then buff combat and mining a bit to match trading. Nobody asked for mono-mining with 1M/T commodities, the entire rare mineral thing was absurd.
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Factabulous said:
This thread is all over the place :)

Re: Cross-stacking massacres - this should go, as it makes balancing so hard.
Re: Stacking massacre+ assassinations ... I'm ok with that - I'm guessing it doesn't scale as well (even if you stack 19 assassinations vs 1 19-ship massacre you presumably only get that one massacre 'for free'?)

I can kinda understand people lusting for CR when starting the game - I am perplexed though by players with multiple 20B+ CMDRs (with FCs) who complain about mining being nerfed ... what are they doing with all that money? Almost sounds pathological.

OTOH I abused 2 things this week - Metal Missions for 1B and the CG for another 1B. Then spent the rest of the week burning CR doing daft stuff, and will spend the rest on Tritium to resupply my DSSA carrier. So I'll end up back on 0 CR :ROFLMAO: (Ok, maybe its me thats pathological ;) )
Click to expand...
Yeh I pretty much think the whole quota fill method doesn't work anyway. It doesn't make any sense firstly, is lazy secondly and thirdly cannot possibly ever be balanced without really weird limitations.

"Yes, I'll pay you 40m credits to kill 81 random targets... No, don't care which. Just has to be in that system and that faction. No, I won't pay you if you're doing it for someone else as well. Sure, just kill 81 for them first then I'll pay you for another 81 after you've done killing their random 81 targets who are the same as the ones I want you to kill.... "

Cargo quota missions = limited by cargo space
Assassinations = limited to one target specifically
Passengers = limited by cabins
Courier = limited by paying very badly (not great)
Massacre missions just make so little sense both from a lore perspective and a balancing/design perspective.

Kill lists would be better, controlled by named npc generation as you kill their allies (or generated in mission USS). Then you could stack as many as you like but every kill is uniquely registered and the odds of getting multiple hostiles actively engaging you simultaneously increases, along with the effort required to fill the order.

CZs should be based on victories and sub objectives.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Ydiss said:
Kill lists would be better, controlled by named npc generation as you kill their allies (or generated in mission USS). Then you could stack as many as you like but every kill is uniquely registered and the odds of getting multiple hostiles actively engaging you simultaneously increases, along with the effort required to fill the order.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but even there Combat is weird in that you can also choose who else is around - so even with a kill list if you bring along 3 wingmates and heal beams it will be a different experience to doing it solo in an Eagle.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Bigmaec said:
Remember, the surface bases and suits and handguns in Odyssey will cost Trillions.
Click to expand...
Well, they will if people keep trillions in their bank balances :)

(I really hope fdev learn from the FC fiasco - don't set prices based on pathological behaviours. I still hope that after all the balancing they drop the FC price and give everyone a refund - maybe that will make the Scrooge McDucks reassess their life choices :) )
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Factabulous said:
Yeah, but even there Combat is weird in that you can also choose who else is around - so even with a kill list if you bring along 3 wingmates and heal beams it will be a different experience to doing it solo in an Eagle.
Click to expand...
You're right. I'll keep this short.

Before wings = desperate for fdev to add wings
After wings = desperate for fdev to add stuff for wings to do
Since then = fdev probably need to improve on their quickly hashed together reward structure for said content

FDev did a great job filling those needs initially and I get why they kept the rewards basic. But it's not good enough and is far too rewarding.
 

jonesskill

jonesskill
metatheurgist said:
If they did things right they would return earnings back to first year rates (this is what all the costs were balanced on, which haven't changed in 5 years). Then buff combat and mining a bit to match trading. Nobody asked for mono-mining with 1M/T commodities, the entire rare mineral thing was absurd.
Click to expand...
I remember that not long time ago people only mine the 500 tons/ore to unlock Selene and 50 bromelite to unlock Turner, i dont think that returning NEAR to this will be a good idea.
There are more expensive things to buy now, this explains the new income rates, at the old 10mi/h rare trade someone will need at least 500H just trading rares to buy a FC, imagine then to fuel it...
Completly out of the reallity.
 

PerchyPanther

P
I'm curious to find out if all the posters who are looking for nerfs to credits to provide balance are already wealthy enough to own fleet carriers?

That's where the real imbalance lies in this game.

I've been playing the game 2-3 hours a day for about a year, haven't really participated in any gold rushes to speak of but have worked my way up through the various ships / careers to the point where I'm now more interested in more end-game activities. I enjoy mixing it up though, a little combat, a little trucking maybe some mining.

A fleet carrier would greatly assist me in long range exploration, bgs activities, powerplay, community goals, all that good stuff....but i'm still 3 billion short and many of the avenues for making up that cash are being shut off. I don't need more ships, I've engineered all the ones I do have, I don't need more materials. At this stage of the game, I need cash to take it to the next level. I don't want to do it in a day but I don't want it to take months either.

The balance seems to be tipped towards either the early game noobs or the extremely vocal, already super rich.

What about the guy in the middle? Looks like it's a six week pirate killin' grind fest for me before I can actually play the game I want.
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Actually, I'd suggest the kill lists for wings need to force you to use the mission USS points. That way the content can be controlled. And yup, that means sending in more adds for more players.

Maybe even force all kill list missions to uss points. And I think mission points should self sustain. Kill what's there, more arrive in response but it gets harder over time. Until you've got to leave (or not if you're bad***).

But definitely this... If I'm massacring your allies anywhere (hazres included), you should be responding with appropriate force. If I'm doing it with 3 friends, ramp that force up by 3.

The total lack of consequence for the slaughter is another issue.
 
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Factabulous

Factabulous
Ydiss said:
Actually, I'd suggest the kill lists for wings need to force you to use the mission USS points. That way the content can be controlled. And yup, that means sending in more adds for more players.

Maybe even force all kill list missions to uss points.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I see why, but I like the flexibility of finding targets in different places. I'd certainly do less assassinations if I always had to visit the USS rather than hanging out at a Nav Beacon / supercruising around slowly etc. I can't help think the main payout should be associated with the target itself, rather than with the missions.

It's complicated - if fdev make the game flexible then people will find unintended ways to play (like cross-stacking). And that isn't a problem unless it becomes the meta and highlights something that seems bugged. And even that arguably isn't a problem unless it is unbalanced as well. Uh, software is complicated :)
 
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