Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

You know, if I had spent hundreds of dollars on a spaceship in a pig's breakfast like SC, I'd be trying to convince myself that I had NOT flushed the money down the toilet. 'course, I'd have to be really careful, 'cause my wife would skin me alive, were she to find me drooling over a spaceship in a not-even-fully-released game costing as much as a decent graphics card. My wife respects my hobbies, and does not nag when I buy something I really want, but such fluff? That's a different story. I'd get a first-class bollocking, and understandably so.

I get the reasoning behind this. LIVE THE DREAM! It's just it's not a dream, it's a poison chalice -- or, more pedestrian, and therefore entirely the style of CRobberts, a mug of cold coffee, liberally laced with horse laxative, and some cigarette butts in it...

To each their own, I get that. However, comparing SC to other games has one tiny, almost inconsequential flaw: SC goes through backers' money like a glutton through a buffet, and there is not nearly enough to show for this largesse being ed at the wall. Comparing it to the makers of Cyberpunk is, in my book, close to unethical -- the CP dudes had used THEIR OWN CASH, they did NOT milk faithful backers, some to the tune of thousands of bucks.

"A fool and his money are soon parted." I understand that, but that does not mean it's ethical, or fair. I am a bit naive myself, I like to believe it when somebody tells me something, and therefore, I get acerbic when people take advantage of others -- as CI is doing. "Pledge," my hairy backside.

The CP guys have one definite advantage over CI: They have delivered games, and they have shown that, while their games are buggy at release, they can and will clean them up nicely. CI has to do that, and I fail to see how, given the constant, foolish feature creep.

 

[LittleAnt]

CI has to do that, and I fail to see how, given the constant, foolish feature creep.

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

 

[Mole HD]

With luck, his son will be able to play the Star Citizen beta by the time he goes to college

 

[Zieman]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

"We knew it was impossible so we faked trying it and made backers pay for that" - CiG

 

[Mole HD]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

It's not impossible in the slightest since most game development studios do it on a weekly if not daily basis... whilst only Ci¬G are making it look so difficult and protracted it may well as well be

 

[LittleAnt]

A nice sneak and steal vid. Love it when the guy doesn't kill and do it's parade at the end

 

[Tippis]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

That doesn't apply to CI¬G simply because they lack the general knowledge and competence to know what is and what isn't possible; what has a known solution and what doesn't; what is actually a problem that needs to be solved and what isn't. They just… well… don't know, aside from maybe that Chris knows he wants to see something he saw in a movie once.

A more accurate version would be more along the lines of “they did know know it was possible, so they didn't do it” or possibly “they didn't know what was possible, so they focused on shoe lace textures.”

Dunning-Kruger is not a virtue.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

Oh, yes, given CRobberts flawless, perfect record, this will be no problem at all -- oh, wait... Let me rephrase this for you: "They chose to ignore the obstacles and problems, promised a whole lot, went ahead and mucked it up."

Seriously, your quotation makes zero sense in this context. Much as I admire Samuel Clemens Longhorn -- Letters from Earth is one of my favourites -- in this given context, it is simply not true. Years and years & hundreds of millions spent, and no end in sight -- not to forget SQ42, which some dude had supposedly played through in 2016... yeah, right.

Furthermore, this saying does simply not apply to something as enormous as programming a hugely complex MMO. Fact is, unless you have true experts working on this, led by somebody who actually understands enough to when to take a direct role and when to stay out of things, there can be no success. SHOULD they ever succeed, I'd happily give them my money. However, it really, really does not look like that. More's the pity, 'cause after this, kickstarter projects like this will be treated with great suspicion. Especially since CRobberts already absolved himself (sic!!) of all guilt. Says a lot about him.--

 

[Viajero]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

Not sure that applies here though. I am pretty sure that by now Chris Roberts and CIG’s management team probably know full well it will be indeed “impossible” to deliver as sold/promised.

 

[VR Golgot]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

 

[Skizomeuh]

"They did not know it was possible so they did it in the most nonsensical way, and struggled"
FTFY

 

[Agony_Aunt]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

Its fine CIG trying to do stuff other might deem impossible (or stupid or already done but CIG pretend it hasn't been done before). But as long as it is on backers money they needed and continue to need to be honest about what they can achieve. However, their desires regarding what they want to deliver and by when do not mesh with the marketing.

So, it would be fine for CIG to say "hey, we want to do all this, and we don't know whether we can do it, but give us money and we will try, we don't know how long it will take" when in reality the marketing is all about "we can do it and give us money to make it happen and it will be ready in 2-3 years tops"

 

[Ian Skippy]

 

[StuartGT]

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” - Mark Twain

"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it" - Winston Churchill

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Strange person... hasn't even bought a ship

https://twitter.com/x/status/1330977061322764288

On the other hand, at least the merch actually exists!

Sometimes you have to crop an image to highlight what's really happening...

 

[Tippis]

…oh, and if you want to go with the “eight years” nonsense for one, you should probably go for the full twenty-three for SC, since that would be the comparable moment in the process.

 

[VR Golgot]

This one is such a peach of a quote

So it's forcing us also as developers to actually have hard deliverables to the community, so we can't fake it. So a lot of times, with development with the publisher, you sort of say 'Oh yeah we made a vertical slice'. But no one with the publishers is actually like looking at your code and seeing that you completely, like, gummed it up together at the back to make your milestone. Which is, that's a very typical developer trick. Whereas this, when you deliver to the community, yeah, you can't get away with it. It's got to work on their machines. So I sort of feel like it's helping our... us as a developer focus on actual deliverables, in shorter periods, that are more focused without as much functionality. Because sometimes with a game it can be completely over-awing with everything you've got to put into it so it's always better, this is the whole idea with agile and scrum, where you take smaller deliverables and sort of sprint towards them. But, but that only really works if the deliverable is real. So this is kind of an attempt to make the deliverable be a proper real deliverable.

Sits very nicely alongside this one:

"Unlike with a publisher, you can't pull the wool over their eyes because it's the real people who are going to be playing it," Roberts noted. "If you're a publisher you can visit me and I can show you the milestone, but you have no idea if behind the scenes I've got it jury-rigged or whatever. Whereas with the real community, there's no way."

And also TheAgent's delicious gossip

The last time we demoed the game, it was heavily scripted. [QA] had been playing it for hours and hours, getting the right route [and content]. The investors wanted it live, so nothing pre-recorded like we are used to sending. Everyone got really quiet when [they] asked if they could play it themselves and not follow the script at all. Almost immediately after the controller was handed over, they crashed. [Someone in the meeting] nervously laughed. I think that was the day we lost a lot of confidence with our investors and they started really looking at our progress.

And the fact that Chris has clearly been merrily carrying on this dev tradition with every Citcon demo and SQ42 slice to date... right in front of the backers' eyes

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

So still earlier than SC?

I think Ant's point that he was making before everyone in this thread (as expected) jumped on him whirling their handbags at him like ladettes at closing time is they're both projects which have had a protracted development, with considerable capital invested and are both (in their respective present states) buggy as hell.

In my opinion (and I've dug a virtual foxhole in preparation for the lengthy bombardment I'm going to receive in the form of a lengthy MBTFritz treatise), what we see of CP2077 now should be compared to SQ42 (when it finally gets released), as they're both single player games.

When we see multiplayer CP2077 content, I think comparisons with SC will be more suitable. Till then the comparisons between a large scale MMO and a single player game make no sense.

As a sidebar, regarding the buggy nature of CP2077's release, I think everyone's forgotten the state of several games at release that we now hold in high regard, for example No Mans Sky or the mainstream gold-standard of 10's gaming that is Skyrim.

 

[Zieman]

when it finally gets released

Shouldn't that be "if it ever gets released", when talking about SQ42 ?

 

[Tippis]

I think Ant's point that he was making before everyone in this thread (as expected) jumped on him whirling their handbags at him like ladettes at closing time is they're both projects which have had a protracted development, with considerable capital invested and are both (in their respective present states) buggy as hell.

No. Art's point is that if you totally ignore actual facts relating to SC and to, oh, everything he's ever tried to compare SC against, it is possibly to paint CI¬G's continued and invariably horrible incompetence as something completely normal, so let's do that and live in a fantasy world where everything sunshine and lollipops and SC the bestest impressivest thingest ever(est).

Except, doing so would be idiotic, so let's not. And let's not try to smooth over the infinite failings of SC by trying to go off-topic at every opportunity in the hope that this will magically make SC good. Somehow.

It's a pathetic attempt at whataboutism and red herrings to cover up the huge mess that is the topic of the thread, and that is not the same thing as having a point. It's really just trolling.