Viper IV - Opinions?

[CMDR DragonHorn]

Also, I don't know if this was you or not but small ships are not training wheels (excluding vulture). Medium ships are training wheels, especially the new ones that don't even require pip management and especially these days when a single mined ore is worth more than most small ships. From medium ships you can decide whether to master FAOFF and go big ships or be a man and go small ships. Vulture, both kraits, and maybe the FAS are the training wheel ships in this game IMO because of less pip management required and excellent pitch speeds, which is the #1 thing new players look for in a ship when they want "agile." This is before they learn to use lateral thrusters. I guess "noob ship" is what they would be called in other games.

Small ships considered training wheels, because they are accessible and very cheap, which means when you blow up, it won't bite in your balance as if you blew up in your medium ship. I can easily destroy any ship in PVE, often even 1vs3 in my Eagle, but destroying brainless NPCs doesn't take any skill whatsoever. Mediums and Large ones are just more convenient, as you kill faster, can fight a lot longer and you cannot be destroyed as easily.

Lastly, nobody seriously PVP in small ships, probably because all PVPer are "noobs" and aren't really men...

Vulture is hands down the best small combat ship. Then it's the courier. Then it's a matter of opinion. But both vipers have boost characteristics that are unique out of all other ships in the game. That's not an opinion.

Just go engineer a V4 and you will see, knowing the numbers in this game is nothing compared to actual flight models.

Actually I posted my Viper IV build in that thread, and stated here (and in several other threads) that it is my absolute favorite ship in the game. Uniqueness of thrusters or flight model doesn't magically makes it better at heavy combat, which argument has erupted here about, it's simply a matter of preference and personally, I do enjoy flying it less weighted. What I'm saying is, it has its role and place in the game, it's just not hardcore combat, is all.

 

[Madrax573]

You guys seriously trying to argue math here? Viper IV is really worse in every possible way than Vulture for pure combat period.

Just check numbers (both ships fully combat with stacked SB/HRP/MRPs with Bi-Weaves and fully engineered):

• C4 thrusters vs. C5. In similar build highlighted above, sheer speed difference will be ~50m/s and boost is whooping ~150 m/s. No surprise, since higher class can handle extra weight much better that lower one. You cannot really be talking about manueverability advantage here, which such jarring difference. And again, Viper IV doesn't exactly have small or slim profile like Eagle does, f.e.
• C3 distributor vs. C5, which lets Vulture have extreme sustain fire capability for only x2 C3 hardpoints, while Viper will struggle. This transfers to possibility of over 750 DPS easily for Vulture, with crippling experimentals and you won't have to put more than 1 PIP in Weapons with that. Vipers cannot even remotely reach these numbers, no matter how you outfit them. More ammo and more damage, what's there to argue?
• Then we take hull. Fully stacked for combat, Vulture will have about ~500 hull points advantage, but that doesn't mean jack since it wins in each resist about 2000 point!
• Then let's take shield. Vulture isn't only has over 300 more raw MJ, but easy gets +1000 more points than Viper in each resist. No surprise, since we're talking only 2 Utilities vs. 4! And biggest advantage here is that Vulture will have exact same Recovery time, but about ~20 sec more Recharge. That not to mention it can go Shield Tank with Prismatics + C5 SCB while Viper IV won't have near as much module capacity for it to be in any way efficient.

Arguing marginal maneuverability at certain speed threshold feels like a joke, when it loses in speed that hard under the weight. Raw damage is the ONLY thing that matters in PVE. In PVP nobody will ever take Viper seriously, it cannot harm any G5 combat Medium ship no matter how it's build.

I mean, you can do whatever you want with ship you like, but it doesn't make this ship even remotely good for certain purposes no matter what you do with it. Some players use Dolphins or Type 9s for combat, you can do that, but you will be very limited in activities you take part in, and there are plenty of ships that do that FAR better. Ships in ED are absolutely unbalanced and have very sophisticated roles. It's obvious as a day, I don't understand how can there be an argument about it...

This entire post shows that you are simply looking at numbers and assuming that those tell you everything about how a ship performs. This is a fundamentally flawed viewpoint. If this was the case then there would only ever be the META ships flying out there and roflstomping everything in their way, which doesn't happen by the way.
I suggest you actually go out and get a decently fit V4 for 'heavy combat', learn how to fly it to it's flight profile (if you fly it like a vulture it WILL feel like a brick) then come back and give us your 'informed' opinion, which is perfectly fine if you then come back and still say you don't like it.

Small ships considered training wheels, because they are accessible and very cheap, which means when you blow up, it won't bite in your balance as if you blew up in your medium ship. I can easily destroy any ship in PVE, often even 1vs3 in my Eagle, but destroying brainless NPCs doesn't take any skill whatsoever. Mediums and Large ones are just more convenient, as you kill faster, can fight a lot longer and you cannot be destroyed as easily.

Lastly, nobody seriously PVP in small ships, probably because all PVPer are "noobs" and aren't really men...

Actually I posted my Viper IV build in that thread, and stated here (and in several other threads) that it is my absolute favorite ship in the game. Uniqueness of thrusters or flight model doesn't magically makes it better at heavy combat, which argument has erupted here about, it's simply a matter of preference and personally, I do enjoy flying it less weighted. What I'm saying is, it has its role and place in the game, it's just not hardcore combat, is all.

Small ships being considered 'training wheels' is an often misguided concept and has been proven time after time that in ED it doesn't follow such a 'progression'

Serious PvP is ED is a tiny portion or a tiny portion of the Playerbase. Taking that as a yardstick is seriously mucking up your perception of how things actually perform. When I first started PvP'ing in ED I flew a V4. Got jumped by lots of people trying to kill me... yeah didn't happen and it wasn't even well engineered at the time. No it wasn't 'formal' organised PvP but actually going out there and getting fights with known PvP'er who should have murdered me.

I looked at your viper build and it shows that you have very little idea of how to build the ship to it's strengths for any form of heavy combat.

This is my all laser CZ clearing build. https://s.orbis.zone/bF31 I can stay there all day long and clear up every ship that comes into it. I think you need to refresh your memory on what numbers to look at and how builds actually work in ED my friend.

Anyways have fun and fly dangerously o7


EDITED for bad spelling

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

You guys seriously trying to argue math here? Viper IV is really worse in every possible way than Vulture for pure combat period.

Just check numbers (both ships fully combat with stacked SB/HRP/MRPs with Bi-Weaves and fully engineered):

• C4 thrusters vs. C5. In similar build highlighted above, sheer speed difference will be ~50m/s and boost is whooping ~150 m/s. No surprise, since higher class can handle extra weight much better that lower one. You cannot really be talking about manueverability advantage here, which such jarring difference. And again, Viper IV doesn't exactly have small or slim profile like Eagle does, f.e.
• C3 distributor vs. C5, which lets Vulture have extreme sustain fire capability for only x2 C3 hardpoints, while Viper will struggle. This transfers to possibility of over 750 DPS easily for Vulture, with crippling experimentals and you won't have to put more than 1 PIP in Weapons with that. Vipers cannot even remotely reach these numbers, no matter how you outfit them. More ammo and more damage, what's there to argue?
• Then we take hull. Fully stacked for combat, Vulture will have about ~500 hull points advantage, but that doesn't mean jack since it wins in each resist about 2000 point!
• Then let's take shield. Vulture isn't only has over 300 more raw MJ, but easy gets +1000 more points than Viper in each resist. No surprise, since we're talking only 2 Utilities vs. 4! And biggest advantage here is that Vulture will have exact same Recovery time, but about ~20 sec more Recharge. That not to mention it can go Shield Tank with Prismatics + C5 SCB while Viper IV won't have near as much module capacity for it to be in any way efficient.

Arguing marginal maneuverability at certain speed threshold feels like a joke, when it loses in speed that hard under the weight. Raw damage is the ONLY thing that matters in PVE. In PVP nobody will ever take Viper seriously, it cannot harm any G5 combat Medium ship no matter how it's build.

I mean, you can do whatever you want with ship you like, but it doesn't make this ship even remotely good for certain purposes no matter what you do with it. Some players use Dolphins or Type 9s for combat, you can do that, but you will be very limited in activities you take part in, and there are plenty of ships that do that FAR better. Ships in ED are absolutely unbalanced and have very sophisticated roles. It's obvious as a day, I don't understand how can there be an argument about it...

Quoted for truth. I mean I get they like the Viper but that doesn't change reality.

 

[Madrax573]

Quoted for truth. I mean I get they like the Viper but that doesn't change reality.

Truth or fact?

Numbers are just numbers. How those numbers actually get used is the important factor. Many of the posts above show that and offer evidence to show that numbers are not applied in the way certain people think they are.

I like both ships (V4 and Vulture) and have spent many hours in both. But the 'truth' quoted above simply isn't in this case 'truth'... but mere opinion and conjecture based on a glance at numbers rather than the application in practice.

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

This entire post shows that you are simply looking at numbers and assuming that those tell you everything about how a ship performs. This is a fundamentally flawed viewpoint. If this was the case then there would only ever be the META ships flying out there and roflstomping everything in their way, which doesn't happen by the way.
I suggest you actually go out and get a decently fit V4 for 'heavy combat', learn how to fly it to it's flight profile (if you fly it like a vulture it WILL feel like a brick) then come back and give us your 'informed' opinion, which is perfectly fine if you then come back and still say you don't like it.



Small ships being considered 'training wheels' is an often misguided concept and has been proven time after time that in ED it doesn't follow such a 'progression'

Serious PvP is ED is a tiny portion or a tiny portion of the Playerbase. Taking that as a yardstick is seriously mucking up your perception of how things actually perform. When I first started PvP'ing in ED I flew a V4. Got jumped by lots of people trying to kill me... yeah didn't happen and it wasn't even well engineered at the time. No it wasn't 'formal' organised PvP but actually going out there and getting fights with known PvP'er who should have murdered me.

I looked at your viper build and it shows that you have very little idea of how to build the ship to it's strengths for any form of heavy combat.

This is my all laser CZ clearing build. https://s.orbis.zone/bF31 I can stay there all day long and clear up every ship that comes into it. I think you need to refresh your memory on what numbers to look at and how builds actually work in ED my friend.

Anyways have fun and fly dangerously o7


EDITED for bad spelling

Viper IV was my first ship I got in this game, and throughout hundreds of hours I've stuck with it. Obviously outfitting it out for every possible role, when didn't have credits or mats for something better. Tried more than dozen of builds total because I've tried to find place for it, and one I'm stuck with is the role this ship works alright with, but again, any medium ship would be far more efficient than Viper IV for the same tasks, and I fully acknowledge it. Your perception of my build being one for heavy combat is very strange, since I've clearly pointed out it's just a Scout, and even if I didn't, anyone who know a thing or two about builds would instantly see it?...

PVP is the definitive test of how ship performs in combat. And yes, there's meta, and it is extremely strict. People enjoying and flying different ships doesn't make these ships good for things people using them for.

Clearing CZ is technically possible in a small ship, but time it will take will be crippling, which transfers into winning said CZ. In small ship you make almost no difference to your side, especially if side is losing. Medium/Large ship CZ clearing speed is vastly quicker, and again, it's not any test of skill, as you fight with game AI, that can't properly fight at all.

If you are so sure that your Viper IV is so strong, want to test it against my PVE Krait II and see how well it does? Or pretty much anyone's medium combat built ship? If you really so sure numbers don't matter and only "flight skills" do, right?

 

[Madrax573]

Viper IV was my first ship I got in this game, and throughout hundreds of hours I've stuck with it. Obviously outfitting it out for every possible role, when didn't have credits or mats for something better. Tried more than dozen of builds total because I've tried to find place for it, and one I'm stuck with is the role this ship works alright with, but again, any medium ship would be far more efficient than Viper IV for the same tasks, and I fully acknowledge it. Your perception of my build being one for heavy combat is very strange, since I've clearly pointed out it's just a Scout, and even if I didn't, anyone who know a thing or two about builds would instantly see it?...

PVP is the definitive test of how ship performs in combat. And yes, there's meta, and it is extremely strict. People enjoying and flying different ships doesn't make these ships good for things people using them for.

Clearing CZ is technically possible in a small ship, but time it will take will be crippling, which transfers into winning said CZ. In small ship you make almost no difference to your side, especially if side is losing. Medium/Large ship CZ clearing speed is vastly quicker, and again, it's not any test of skill, as you fight with game AI, that can't properly fight at all.

If you are so sure that your Viper IV is so strong, want to test it against my PVE Krait II and see how well it does? Or pretty much anyone's medium combat built ship? If you really so sure numbers don't matter and only "flight skills" do, right?

LOL wow you got really butthurt there

You posted the build and then refered to it again while talking about how bad it was at combat. Yes your build is bad at combat but that's your builds fault not the ship.

PvP is most certainly NOT the definite test of ship performance, this is a very closed minded viewpoint imo, if it was then my Cobra IV and Keelback's would not have survived the numerous gank attempts on them as by your reasoning they don't stand a chance... PvP is as directly stated by the term 'Player' vs 'Player' it not called Ship v Ship is it?

I clear CZ in my Viper 4, Cobra 4 and DBX all the time in quite handily fashion. I've even timed myself on other occasions vs my mamba and krait builds and the difference in clear times is only a few %. If you think it's got nothing to do with skill then you are simply not paying attention. If it had nothing to do with skill as it's just against the NPC's why do so many people (in medium and large ships) still complain about combat being too hard...

I'll happily test your krait in my viper 4. Come and find me
Number DO matter but the are NOT the ONLY thing that matters as if it was then, like I mentioned above, my Cobra IV/Keelbacks (2 widely hated ship) would be dead in the many attempts I've had on me. Feel free to try some yourself if you can find me. I'm usually around GD140 or Archelous mucking about in slow, fat, bad combat ships fit badly.

 

[Oytis57]

You guys seriously trying to argue math here? Viper IV is really worse in every possible way than Vulture for pure combat period.

Just check numbers (both ships fully combat with stacked SB/HRP/MRPs with Bi-Weaves and fully engineered):

• C4 thrusters vs. C5. In similar build highlighted above, sheer speed difference will be ~50m/s and boost is whooping ~150 m/s. No surprise, since higher class can handle extra weight much better that lower one. You cannot really be talking about manueverability advantage here, which such jarring difference. And again, Viper IV doesn't exactly have small or slim profile like Eagle does, f.e.
• C3 distributor vs. C5, which lets Vulture have extreme sustain fire capability for only x2 C3 hardpoints, while Viper will struggle. This transfers to possibility of over 750 DPS easily for Vulture, with crippling experimentals and you won't have to put more than 1 PIP in Weapons with that. Vipers cannot even remotely reach these numbers, no matter how you outfit them. More ammo and more damage, what's there to argue?
• Then we take hull. Fully stacked for combat, Vulture will have about ~500 hull points advantage, but that doesn't mean jack since it wins in each resist about 2000 point!
• Then let's take shield. Vulture isn't only has over 300 more raw MJ, but easy gets +1000 more points than Viper in each resist. No surprise, since we're talking only 2 Utilities vs. 4! And biggest advantage here is that Vulture will have exact same Recovery time, but about ~20 sec more Recharge. That not to mention it can go Shield Tank with Prismatics + C5 SCB while Viper IV won't have near as much module capacity for it to be in any way efficient.

Arguing marginal maneuverability at certain speed threshold feels like a joke, when it loses in speed that hard under the weight. Raw damage is the ONLY thing that matters in PVE. In PVP nobody will ever take Viper seriously, it cannot harm any G5 combat Medium ship no matter how it's build.

I mean, you can do whatever you want with ship you like, but it doesn't make this ship even remotely good for certain purposes no matter what you do with it. Some players use Dolphins or Type 9s for combat, you can do that, but you will be very limited in activities you take part in, and there are plenty of ships that do that FAR better. Ships in ED are absolutely unbalanced and have very sophisticated roles. It's obvious as a day, I don't understand how can there be an argument about it...

Sorry but you got it wrong,I've never said that Viper MKIV is better than Vulture,I said that Viper IV is a "capable" Combat ship and does its own job,the other guy said it flies like a brick wich is not,it's all about that,I can face T10 and destroy them in a Hi CZ with a Viper IV,three in a row,probably my Vulture will come out half strength after the second,both have their advantages and disadvantages,both are capable.

 

[Hoshizoku]

I can face T10 and destroy them in a Hi CZ with a Viper IV,three in a row,probably my Vulture will come out half strength after the second,both have their advantages and disadvantages,both are capable.

Now you lost credibility X,D
Vulture cant keep up with t10 but Viper can X,D
Theres nothing more easy to kill than a T10 in anything. Those things just float around ready to get sniped at. But your reaction also makes alot of sense as well now..
Well enjoy your ships Cmdrs

 

[Viscera]

I really enjoy tbe Viper Mk4.

I do not fly fa off at all.

I have learnt how to fly with juat fa on, and the V4 is still a very manouvrable ship, more so than many others.

It has a very good flight style once you learn how to utilise it.

There are many ways to skin a cat, and the Viper MkIV is a cat that can be skinned in many different ways.

 

[Northpin]

Clearing CZ is technically possible in a small ship, but time it will take will be crippling,

No, not really.

I went out to Colonia to help in Carcosa wars (this autumn)
I flew a biweave Vulture with 2 large gimbaled beams - i could chain high CZ all day long getting fast clear runs.
The secret is in picking the right targets, going for PP (never for the hull) and keeping under 500m from the target.

Really fun flying that Vulture.
And having those large hardpoints with a clear upper fire arc is a really big advantage since for gimbals it allows flying evasive and off-boresight shooting

Which is also the main disadvantage for the Vipers with those underbelly mediums :/

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Clearing CZ is technically possible in a small ship, but time it will take will be crippling, which transfers into winning said CZ. In small ship you make almost no difference to your side, especially if side is losing.

Not true at all.
I exclusively fly small combat ships and there's nothing I can't do with it...wing assassination missions can be tough though.
I can solo clear a high CZ in a small ship faster than some people can do in a Corvette. Just over 7mins in a small ship.
It really boils down to weapon loadout and ToT.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

LOL wow you got really butthurt there

You posted the build and then refered to it again while talking about how bad it was at combat. Yes your build is bad at combat but that's your builds fault not the ship.

PvP is most certainly NOT the definite test of ship performance, this is a very closed minded viewpoint imo, if it was then my Cobra IV and Keelback's would not have survived the numerous gank attempts on them as by your reasoning they don't stand a chance... PvP is as directly stated by the term 'Player' vs 'Player' it not called Ship v Ship is it?

I clear CZ in my Viper 4, Cobra 4 and DBX all the time in quite handily fashion. I've even timed myself on other occasions vs my mamba and krait builds and the difference in clear times is only a few %. If you think it's got nothing to do with skill then you are simply not paying attention. If it had nothing to do with skill as it's just against the NPC's why do so many people (in medium and large ships) still complain about combat being too hard...

I'll happily test your krait in my viper 4. Come and find me
Number DO matter but the are NOT the ONLY thing that matters as if it was then, like I mentioned above, my Cobra IV/Keelbacks (2 widely hated ship) would be dead in the many attempts I've had on me. Feel free to try some yourself if you can find me. I'm usually around GD140 or Archelous mucking about in slow, fat, bad combat ships fit badly.

I don't want to pile on here, but I just checked out his build posted earlier in this thread, and yeah, that explains a lot of the misconceptions. smh

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Truth or fact?

Numbers are just numbers. How those numbers actually get used is the important factor. Many of the posts above show that and offer evidence to show that numbers are not applied in the way certain people think they are.

I like both ships (V4 and Vulture) and have spent many hours in both. But the 'truth' quoted above simply isn't in this case 'truth'... but mere opinion and conjecture based on a glance at numbers rather than the application in practice.

I think you're a skilled pilot that just loves the Viper. Or at least you love to boast about your skill while insulting others, but I digress. (saying people are "butthurt" really man? This ain't 4-Chan)

Why didn't you simply challenge his facts - and they were facts - with those of your own? He spoke the truth, he gave the facts, and you're trying to shirk away with this silly "well uhh, that's HIS truth not the facts". Who are you, Joe Biden?

We get it, you love the Viper 4! That's great, I'm not about trying to convince you that you can't love what you love. But I hated the Viper, and that's my "truth", so if we can't go by hardcore on-paper facts and stats, why are YOU so right and I and others so wrong? I mean....if there's no objective way we can judge ships, who are YOU and others to tell me I'm not right??

 

[Deleted member 182079]

This thread (at least some posts in it) really showcases the post-truth world we live in, one in which personal opinions are overruling facts. SAD.

 

[Vedmo]

Why didn't you simply challenge his facts - and they were facts - with those of your own?

First off, please do not confuse this post with me trying to state a Viper MKIV is an objectively better combat ship than a Vulture, or vice versa for that matter.

His facts may have indeed been facts, I honestly didn't bother creating builds to fact check them, but they didn't seem outlandish so I will assume they are true.

One could just as easily though compile a list of "on paper" shield, speed, hull, armor, PD, thruster, utility slot, or whatever else advantages the Asp Scout, Asp Explorer, Keelback, Type-7, Orca, Beluga Liner, and Type-9 hold over the Viper MKIV (or even over the Vulture) and claim they had just proven any one of those was a factually better combat ship (and maybe for some any one of those ships does work better for combat).

How it all comes together in practice to work for whatever pilot is using it is the only relevant gauge of the effectiveness of a combat ship, and I am sure many pilots have learned over time what looks mathematically superior on a ship building site or spreadsheet, once put into practice, sometimes needs some (mathematical downgrades) changes in some areas so the ship in whole performs better for them.

I feel rather confident from my own experiences and those that have been voiced by others over the years though, that the MKIV is in fact at least a capable combat ship, which the fact presenter you quoted clearly stated was not true.

Do NOT try to build Viper IV for combat, it really can't fight.

It really can fight.

 

[goemon]

there are also a couple of hardfacts which are not represented in many stats.

size/hitbox. viper mkIV has one of the smallest, additional to a very small profile upfront. combined with its strong and agile lateral thrusters, which allows you to face the target at almost all time. vulture is a great ship, but it simply has a greater height, actually it is in all dimension 1,5 that long, high and wide.

flight characteristics sanderling has explained so well (and stress tested during racing) - few cmdrs look at those. I'll add especially behaviour with different pips to eng. e.g. my conflictzone dbe is build to be run with 4 pips to eng, as it is one of the ships winning massively from pips to eng (I'm pretty sure that's why fdev gave it a class 4 distributor). the vulture is a ship which has 90% of its manouverability with 0 pips to eng - it's literally a ship which neither really wins or looses from active pips management. it's a great ship for a lazy or efficient or unexperienced commander.

 

[Northpin]

size/hitbox. viper mkIV has one of the smallest, additional to a very small profile upfront. combined with its strong and agile lateral thrusters, which allows you to face the target at almost all time. vulture is a great ship, but it simply has a greater height, actually it is in all dimension 1,5 that long, high and wide.

This ^^

The targets i hate most in a CZ are Vipers. Both types
My targets of choice are: Eagle, Asp (both), Vulture - eazy kills in a high cz

 

[dekot]

Small ships considered training wheels, because they are accessible and very cheap, which means when you blow up, it won't bite in your balance as if you blew up in your medium ship. I can easily destroy any ship in PVE, often even 1vs3 in my Eagle, but destroying brainless NPCs doesn't take any skill whatsoever. Mediums and Large ones are just more convenient, as you kill faster, can fight a lot longer and you cannot be destroyed as easily.

Lastly, nobody seriously PVP in small ships, probably because all PVPer are "noobs" and aren't really men...


Actually I posted my Viper IV build in that thread, and stated here (and in several other threads) that it is my absolute favorite ship in the game. Uniqueness of thrusters or flight model doesn't magically makes it better at heavy combat, which argument has erupted here about, it's simply a matter of preference and personally, I do enjoy flying it less weighted. What I'm saying is, it has its role and place in the game, it's just not hardcore combat, is all.

Only one guy here has said the V4 is a better fighter than the vulture. That's his opinion, I don't know why you're applying it to everybody else. You even quoted my post saying that the vulture is the best small combat ship. This is getting dumb, the only people here saying the V4 is sluggish and bad at combat are the ones who obviously haven't tried it. You say it used to be your favorite ship? I say it was one of your first ships that you had when you first started playing and you weren't skilled enough to appreciate it. Everybody goes through that, when I first got the game, I looked up the catalogue of available ships, picked a FDL and was massively disappointed when it didn't instantly destroy everything. Some ships require time, vulture is an example of a ship that doesn't require any time at all. The V4's strengths become obvious when you start relying more on lateral movement and stuff. A lot of dueling pvp'ers (not automatically the best pilots) tend to just joust, boost turn with FAO, and it becomes a matter of aiming, fps style, to see who wins. There is more movement when it's a fight between teams and generally the more skilled pvp'ers do that and they generally set up their fights so they usually pick asteroid fields and stuff where movement matters more. For the 99% of pvp fights you find in the wild in this game, you will win if you were the one seeking the fight.

My point is that pvp is not the epitome of skilled flight. The epitome of pvp is just a meta FDL, 80% of dueling pvp'ers use the FDL, if not more. If you base ship viability on what pvp'ers use, that invalidates virtually every ship in the game apart from a FDL.

As for medium ships, those are the ships that ALL new players fly. You don't ever see new players in small ships, they're always in chieftains or kraits or vultures or any other medium ship that is very easy to fly. The only people I know who fly small ships are the ones who choose to do so and they do so because they prefer the flight models. With the boosted economy we have nowadays, even the most green player can be in any medium ship in no time at all.

 

[GunnerBill]

Flies like a brick without wings. Pointless.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Sorry I'm late, but I threw this together at work. This one is way chonkier, has a bump shield that acts as module reinforcement,and might eat a missile to save your hardpoints. If you're looking to balance resists, use your smallest HRP to do so. You get the same resistance benefit from a small HRP as you would a large, but you don't miss out on as much raw hull.

Change the weapons as you feel necessary. Probably wouldn't suggest relying on missiles for your main damage output, OP.