Upgrading, G2 or Valve Index (or something else)?
- Thread starter AirBear
- Start date
Sweet!
Spend some time in your old HMD so you will be proper blown away!!
Spend some time in your old HMD so you will be proper blown away!!
Except that it's not a good video, and Tyriel has been accused many times of Facebook bias, that's why on his video Index looks worse than Rift S (ROTFL), same for his Elite TTL. Much more trustworthy video is from MRTV, at least I can confirm that it looks like that in the Index, whereas in Tyriel's ED and DCS vids it doesn't look like that at all. Also keep in mind that through the lens videos is not at all representative of what you see, because eye sees things different than a camera. I tried to film a couple of those using both prosumer grade mirrorles camera, and a simple smartphone cam, and I can tell you these are not representative of the real thing, IMHO. Even in the video I mention, MRTV supposedly shows screendoor effect, while that's not at all indicative of what's in the headset. What can be seen on video is camera artifacting with the lens.
Aforementioned MRTV video:
You're losing the 3d audio though, because as you rotate, your central speaker becomes rear left speaker etc. It doesn't matter much if you play seated Elite, but in other games you will lose some situation awareness thanks to that.
Even better, do A-B testing ;-) Play the same setting in the old and then switch for the new
IMHO we're unfortunately at a point where there is no clear winner, and you should have three different headsets for different purposes... Index - fov, comfort, clarity, controllers + tracking, Quest2 - portability, wireless, nice controllers, Reverb - best picture quality, very good for sims. Next gen of headsets paired with latest GPUs should be awesome. I also hope they solve wireless and handtracking globally, not just for oculus - would love to flip the switches in my F/A18C or Mi8 using my hands like real pilot, without needing to pick up the controllers.
Good luck with your purchase @AirBear , it should blow you away
That is also not good video because G2 finally received better lenses, better panels and finally received 'image quality' update in December windows update so finally image is significatnly better than on movies from the middle of 2020 in pre production model.
that is great! Share your opinion after you get it
Thanks for all the help folks. I just checked the HP website and the G2 was available again with 2 day shipping. I should have it by Wednesday or Thursday
that is great! Share your opinion after you get it
That's why it's important to have forums like this one. This was very helpful, I had not really considered the Q2 until reading about it here. I was just checking the HP website today to see if there was an update on G2 availability and it showed ready to ship so 5 minutes later I had bought it. If in a week it still hadn't been available I probably would have bought the Q2. The video that's out of date showed excellent sharpness for the G2. I understand there have been some quality issues so I'll have to watch out for that. The $599 price also fit in nicely with the $600 free money from the government earlier this month .
.I have both: a quality set of headphones and a decent set 5.1s. I like my audio me, and IMO, I think ED is so much better in 5.1s than headphones.
I loves it anyway!
With the deepest respect, it sounds like you don't have 5.1s. Or you have, you haven't set them up properly because you can get 3d audio with 5.1s. Audio tech has come a long way since I was a lad and I can tell Elite uses the very best audio tech.
In case you are wondering how 5.1s do manage to get binaural like sound despite having more than bi speakers:
5.1s typically use the rear speakers, which are located at your side (not behind) at ear level to generate the binaural-like effect.
(Plenty of images showing layout on Google.)
Set up correctly, to dolby layout specs for instance, you do hear sounds above and below. You feel them too. It isn't quite as pronounced as the headphones because of the other speakers adding locations noise but it is close and in the stations you can easily track docking ships using sound and the SRV guns are above you etc
That might all be bollox and ED might not have 3D for surround but it does sound 3D to me.
Regarding positional audio, yes some games (typically those built for VR) suffer the effect you describe but I've yet to get the issue in sims.
In ED, you can look around and the engines always sound behind the chair and the SRV guns are always above you. But yeah other games don't work.
If you are interested, I made a thread on the oculus forum a year or so with a list of games which can be played in VR using 5.1s.
It wasn't very well viewed
so stopped adding to it.But it's here if you are interested.
List of games supporting surround-sound speaker setups
Hi all I hope DaftNDirect won't mind but I took his idea and made a thread dedicated to VR gamers who wish, or are forced to use surround-sound speakers. Surround-sound setups require their games to have a fixed 'soundstage' for their sound to be accurately positioned for their speakers...
most of the OK games in the list wouldn't be 3D, just surround.
Absolutely!.
Even better, do A-B testing ;-) Play the same setting in the old and then switch for the new
IMHO we're unfortunately at a point where there is no clear winner, and you should have three different headsets for different purposes... Index - fov, comfort, clarity, controllers + tracking, Quest2 - portability, wireless, nice controllers, Reverb - best picture quality, very good for sims. Next gen of headsets paired with latest GPUs should be awesome. I also hope they solve wireless and handtracking globally, not just for oculus - would love to flip the switches in my F/A18C or Mi8 using my hands like real pilot, without needing to pick up the controllers.
Good luck with your purchase @AirBear , it should blow you away
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Same here man, pulled the trigger just now. I've been trolling the purchase of a VR headset for a long time. I would already have an index if it weren't for the 8 week shipping wait (headset and controller bundle still shows that on Steam).Thanks for all the help folks. I just checked the HP website and the G2 was available again with 2 day shipping. I should have it by Wednesday or Thursday
We can both cry in our beer if the G2 is a disappointment.
Heh, I had Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theater DT2200 from Creative Labs since 2001 until they finally gave up on me a few years ago
Pricey but best bang for the buck back then, EAX supporting and whatnot... and yes I had them set up properly. So properly that waifu was snapping at me for their stands and cables all the time ;-))) She was very happy when they finally died ;-)))I only meant that for VR games, the off ear audio is indispensable in my opinion. It sadly doesn't work with 5.1 speakers if you use roomscale. I supposed it could be made to work, but it would be an edge case requiring lots of CPU cycles which can be better used for frames. In sims where you sit at your desk - not so much, but in a shooter like onward, you'd lost the direction of shots for example.
It's highly unlikely, unless you plan to play shooters in roomscale or anything that requires good tracking. It seems that tracking of the G2 controllers is really hit and miss with more miss. Stick to Elite, or throw the controllers in the trashcan and invest in frankenreverb using Index controllers ;-)
Once you have seen stuff at 100% in the G2 you can't go back.
I was running 4 HMDs up until the arrival of the G2 (Pimax 5k+, Valve Index, Rift S, HP Reverb G1). Now they are all back in their boxes ready to sell.
The G2 has some issues sure but its the best consumer HMD to date - I always dreamt of VR this good back in the days of the DK2.
If you are only running a 2080 be sure to either switch to 60hz (its acceptable in Elite I've found) or enable WMR motion reprojection if you are gunning for 90hz.
I would strongly advise buying a 3080/3090.
You don't want too have to lower the final render resolution in WMR for SteamVR at all. The default 100% is roughly 9 megapixels (1.5x native physical resolution) and it looks incredibly beautiful but requires colossal rendering power.
I was running 4 HMDs up until the arrival of the G2 (Pimax 5k+, Valve Index, Rift S, HP Reverb G1). Now they are all back in their boxes ready to sell.
The G2 has some issues sure but its the best consumer HMD to date - I always dreamt of VR this good back in the days of the DK2.
If you are only running a 2080 be sure to either switch to 60hz (its acceptable in Elite I've found) or enable WMR motion reprojection if you are gunning for 90hz.
I would strongly advise buying a 3080/3090.
You don't want too have to lower the final render resolution in WMR for SteamVR at all. The default 100% is roughly 9 megapixels (1.5x native physical resolution) and it looks incredibly beautiful but requires colossal rendering power.
Man, I remember the Cambridge SW. Two white cubes sounded great...it's been a long time.
My first few games will be Elite, MSFS, Subnautica, and some racecar sims (P Cars 2, suggestions welcome). There's really no FPS games in VR that I want to see, except maybe Alex...probably need the frankenreverb for that. Right now I'm into VR for the visuals, not so much jumping around with my arms flailing about.
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And word about the tracking - i had no issues with WMR controllers at all with playing shooters.
Its good to invest NiZn rechargable 1.6V battery pack - people on reddit claims its improving a tracking a lot. Personally i not used it in past and had no issues with previous WMR's and now i bought that for G2 and also have no issues, however i noticed the batteries stays charged noticable longer.
Its good to invest NiZn rechargable 1.6V battery pack - people on reddit claims its improving a tracking a lot. Personally i not used it in past and had no issues with previous WMR's and now i bought that for G2 and also have no issues, however i noticed the batteries stays charged noticable longer.
Hehe!Heh, I had Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theater DT2200 from Creative Labs since 2001 until they finally gave up on me a few years ago
I feel that pain.
My waifu is very supportive because she is a gamer. I worry about the Neighbours as don't want to annoy them too much. It is a treat when I get the 5.1s out for my sims. Probably why I am so fond of them.
However, I wouldn't dismiss 5.1s based on your experience with your DT2200. I looked them up.
Cambridge SoundWorks Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT2200 - speaker system - for PC Specs
Cambridge SoundWorks Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT2200 - speaker system - for PC overview and full product specs on CNET.
www.cnet.com
Umm.... Mate, you can't compare modern 5.1s to those. That's like judging VR having only used the DK1! They're pretty much desktop speakers with a bass amp. I am using a similar spec 2.1 set for my desktop. I can therefore see why you are excited by the G2's decent headphones.
I have the Logiteck z901s, the best I was 'allowed' for the house:
Logitech Z906 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers System
Shop Z906 Speakers. Features THX certified, 500 watts RMS, Dolby Digital / DTS decoding, supports multiple inputs, digital coaxial, optical inputs, and more
www.logitech.com
I would call the z901s acceptable. Certainly not 'enthusiat', they're not digital (unless DD or DTS, so essentially analogue only for games). They are defo equivalent to using a G2.
But the z906's five satellite speakers are 67 watts each - that's four times more power than the DT2200's bass amp! And they probably push out more bass because of the tech they use.
Also, the DT2200's satellites aren't 'full-range' either. Back in the early 2000s, these speakers were mainly used for clicks and atmospherics, echos and such like. Nowadays satellite are full-range, you listen to your EDM them, with the bass amp used more for enhancing rumbles than actual sound.
If you get a chance, check some decent 5.1s out. Your misses might not be so pleased though!
Yeah. I agree.
For sims/cockpit games, I do personally think 5.1s are the way forward. To the point I become skeptical if people disagree
However, roomscale. No.
In that post of mine, that no-one looked at, my top rating was OK. Positional audio works correctly in 'surround', only if you have the speakers in a square configuration and you stand in the middle. Plus ideally have the centre speaker above you (turned down to 75%) because that's where speech is usually focused.
But yeah, you need to stand in the middle, not a problem for me because I live in a little box but it's hardly roomscale.
Headphones defo better.
I hear ya (pardon the pun), and I've checked decent logitech ones at a friend, can't remember the name now but they were I think before yours. Logitech discontinued them because frankly they were too good
The current offerings are called "nerfed version" of the ones I'm thinking of.Living in a block of flats, one should be mindful of the neighbours too... Cannot go all crazy on audio here and the best I can count on is buying a good quality soundbar, maybe with satellite subwoofer
The reason I am excited with "decent" Index / G2 audio is that it's much better suited for VR and I'm playing roomscale a lot. I also appreciate that I retain awareness of my surroundings, for example can hear dog walking into the room or if wife wants something from me (although she manages to scare me from time to time, the "isolation" can be that good despite them being off-ear. I wouldn't use them to listen to the music for example. But from all VR systems I've used (and I've tried many of them), Index / G2 audio is IMHO best for VR in general. Not having physical cups over your ears / plugs in ear canals contributes to immersion in my case.
I'm guessing that I am that friend and you mean Logitech Z-5500. I use them to this dayI hear ya (pardon the pun), and I've checked decent logitech ones at a friend, can't remember the name now but they were I think before yours. Logitech discontinued them because frankly they were too good
For "computer speakers" they are good. But of course not compared to actual decent speakers that you hook up to an AVR.
Yeah!I'm guessing that I am that friend and you mean Logitech Z-5500. I use them to this day
My mate up the road has those too. Had them ages, still good and he has no desire to replace them. I think he paid £400 odd new? Does that sound right?
In fact, those bad boys are the reason I have my z906s. I wanted a set of 5500s myself but I didn't want second hand.
I don't think the z906s are quite as good as the Z-5500s, but the 906s did cost quite a bit less new, so what do you expect? And frankly, we can't tell the difference. We've tried. But it's not a fair comparason because we game at his, then come here and game here. Not the best way to compare. Frankly we both can't (unwilling to) turn them up much beyond 60%, so can't give either systems a fair run. They're both nuts at that volume!
And yeah, both sets are, like I said above and as you imply, far from being enthusiast quality!
Absolutely defo!
And over-ear headphones like G2 are objectively more comfy than on-ears, regardless of how light the on-ear headphones may be!
Here's my thoughts: I think...
5.1s > headphones:
- Beat-saber - just sounds so good
- Pistol whip - just sounds so good
- Elite Dangerous - just sounds so good
- AC - you know the deal...
- DR/DR2.0
- ETS2/ATS
- Aerofly2
- DCS
Headphones > 5.1s:
- everything else
Checked my FedEx tracking on the G2, it should be here by tomorrow (1-28) evening. Which works out well since the wife leaves tomorrow morning for 4 days to visit a friend 5 hours away. No having to explain what the new toy is
Question: I've been watching G2 setup videos on YouTube. Since I already have the WMR Dell headset I have the WMR for Steam VR software, Steam VR, and of course Steam all installed. It's been a week or two since I used the Dell headset but usually I start ED from my Steam Library and then use the dropdown menu to select VR vs. normal mode. Since the G2 is WMR compatible should I need to install any other software or drivers?
Question: I've been watching G2 setup videos on YouTube. Since I already have the WMR Dell headset I have the WMR for Steam VR software, Steam VR, and of course Steam all installed. It's been a week or two since I used the Dell headset but usually I start ED from my Steam Library and then use the dropdown menu to select VR vs. normal mode. Since the G2 is WMR compatible should I need to install any other software or drivers?
IDK about WMR, but check @drkaii 's excellent EDProfiler. It's perfect for switching settings to/from VR and a bunch of other useful stuff.
forums.frontier.co.uk
EDProfiler - A New Display Switcher/Robust Settings Profiler/Switcher/Detector!
Hi, A display switcher (many other functions). It's does a lot more, see below. We are now in build 4! Download here: http://www.drkaii.com/tools/edprofiler/ Updated to include all the important Odyssey settings, and functionality. Things should work just like they do in the game and there...
Thanks, I used that app a few years ago when I first got my Dell headset. Need to take another look at it. I remember being a bit overwhelmed by the settings.
QUOTE="VR StarLightPL, post: 8922086, member: 126232"]
IDK about WMR, but check @drkaii 's excellent EDProfiler. It's perfect for switching settings to/from VR and a bunch of other useful stuff.
forums.frontier.co.uk
[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="VR StarLightPL, post: 8922086, member: 126232"]
IDK about WMR, but check @drkaii 's excellent EDProfiler. It's perfect for switching settings to/from VR and a bunch of other useful stuff.
EDProfiler - A New Display Switcher/Robust Settings Profiler/Switcher/Detector!
Hi, A display switcher (many other functions). It's does a lot more, see below. We are now in build 4! Download here: http://www.drkaii.com/tools/edprofiler/ Updated to include all the important Odyssey settings, and functionality. Things should work just like they do in the game and there...