Ships Advice on engineering my Chieftain

[Kayvan]

The damage dropoff of SR doesn't change (according to Coriolis), it's only the max range that is reduced from 4 to 2km.

Re Frags, mb I should give them a 2nd chance; I know I tried them last year and didn't hit with them, but mb I'm a slightly better pilot now. ^^
How close do you actually have to be?

--

On another note, since we also touched on FA Off in this thread. I think I'll try to get used to a different keybind setup first (swapping up/down and main/retro), as Off obv needs a very much lighter touch on the controls. Or MB I should invest in a HOTAS after all. Or dual joystick? Hard to say.

 

[Viscera]

I have huge multi in both long range and overcharged. Both equally good.

I find the long range good for hitting the smaller more agile ships, with its faster ammo speed.

Whether this is actually true, or just a false impression I get, I could not tell you, but that is what my gut tells me happens...

 

[Kayvan]

Next test cycle:
Dug out that pair of gimballed large frags I still had lying around from my failed attempt last year. Tuned them up with Hi-Cap / Screen, but only to G3 to save high-grade mats in case I don't like it. Then mounted them on my Chief and went into the Haz.

Well what can I say -- works much better than last year indeed. xD Smaller ships were just shredded, and larger ones also didn't last very long. Even taking on a Wing of larger ships went better than it used to, because the first target falls so quickly. As usual, I kept fighting until I ran (almost) out of ammo, then did the tally. This time I managed 25 ships, which is a bit less than last time with the MCs, but I have the impression it went a lot faster.

Next step would probably be trying out Fixed and/or Double Shot. I specced these to Hi-Cap for twice the endurance, because DS seems to go through your ammo supply awfully fast. But maybe it's worth it anyway? Maybe it still saves time even without synthing bc the kills roll in so fast.
Boy, now I'm really looking forward to those Pacifiers.

 

[Kayvan]

Oh and I squeezed in another test run. This time I replaced all lasers with long range railguns. The theory was to have sth for every situation -- rails for long range and cancelling SCBs, frags for point blank. DPS seemed good, with the rails alone exceeding the entire classic Laser/MC build.

In practice, terrible. I did hit with the rails reasonably well, but was running out of ammo way too fast. The first enemy was a Deadly Vulture and his shield held forever. Then a Conda, and after 2 ships half my rail ammo was gone. All in all I managed only some 6 enemies or so until all guns were dry, and it took forever too. A lousy 1.5M bounty, not even a quarter of the laser setups. :/

Saw a vid by Vindicator Jones where he ran a Chief with all fixed double shot frags, mb I'm gonna try that -- looked like fun. XD

 

[Ander_Wand]

Oh and I squeezed in another test run. This time I replaced all lasers with long range railguns. The theory was to have sth for every situation -- rails for long range and cancelling SCBs, frags for point blank. DPS seemed good, with the rails alone exceeding the entire classic Laser/MC build.
In practice, terrible. I did hit with the rails reasonably well, but was running out of ammo way too fast. The first enemy was a Deadly Vulture and his shield held forever. Then a Conda, and after 2 ships half my rail ammo was gone. All in all I managed only some 6 enemies or so until all guns were dry, and it took forever too. A lousy 1.5M bounty, not even a quarter of the laser setups. :/
Saw a vid by Vindicator Jones where he ran a Chief with all fixed double shot frags, mb I'm gonna try that -- looked like fun. XD

Feel my pain. I keep coming to the conclusion that for longer bounty hunting sessions nothing works as reliably as a couple of overcharged MC with some long range beams.
Maybe it is just a matter of practice to make every shot count with those more specialised weapons to be as effective as a standard build...
Rails are also not optimal to take shields down, thats why I want to couple them with some PA soon. Lets see how well that works.

 

[Ander_Wand]

In theory you can always use the plasma slug thing on the rails, just not sure how well that will work with the small fuel capacity of the Chieftain...

 

[Kayvan]

Well, Plasma Slug works just fine with Large PAs on the Chief, never had a problem with the fuel and I guess small/med Rails won't use more fuel. But it would kinda defeat the purpose since I'm bringing Rails in order to cancel SCBs with Feedback Cascade. Too bad you can't have multiple XFx on a module.

Long story short I guess Rails are mostly interesting for PVP where you don't need the endurance to kill 25+ enemies.
Looks like the "MC + Lasers" setup is PvE Meta for a reason.

 

[Ander_Wand]

Well, Plasma Slug works just fine with Large PAs on the Chief, never had a problem with the fuel and I guess small/med Rails won't use more fuel. But it would kinda defeat the purpose since I'm bringing Rails in order to cancel SCBs with Feedback Cascade. Too bad you can't have multiple XFx on a module.
Long story short I guess Rails are mostly interesting for PVP where you don't need the endurance to kill 25+ enemies.
Looks like the "MC + Lasers" setup is PvE Meta for a reason.

True, that is also why I haven' used plasma slugs so far. Afaik fuel consumption is equal to all those weapons regardless of class. Imperial Hammer/ APA might be different, not sure.

Wait, there is a PVE meta? Thought everybody just uses what floats his boat. Still have to find a convincing reason to use any lasers other than thermal vent beams though...

 

[Kayvan]

Well I guess I should have put it in "", ofc PvE is a lot more forgiving and flexible than PVP ^^ but it kinda is what most people use.
And I kinda enjoy looking for combos that not everybody uses but still work... Guess that's also part of why I prefer Chief over FdL ^^

 

[Homerzilla]

In theory you can always use the plasma slug thing on the rails, just not sure how well that will work with the small fuel capacity of the Chieftain...

I did that, and even with ( on purpose ! ) extra fuel tank ; not a great idea, you can see literally, the fuel levels going down, faasaast !

This work nice ONLY on big ships - I use Imp 3 rails in my Vette, but man,, the Vette have a decent tank - even so, I was forced to add a SECOND fuel tank in order to stay more than 1 h on ResH....

 

[Ander_Wand]

I did that, and even with ( on purpose ! ) extra fuel tank ; not a great idea, you can see literally, the fuel levels going down, faasaast !

Yeah, that was my guess too

This work nice ONLY on big ships - I use Imp 3 rails in my Vette, but man,, the Vette have a decent tank - even so, I was forced to add a SECOND fuel tank in order to stay more than 1 h on ResH....

Think something like a Phantom or Krait 2 would also do quite well, they got huge tanks to start with. Don't you think?

 

[GloatingSwine]

I tried plasma slug PAs, but ultimately rearms are cheap and fast and the more damage you do the less you have to do them.

 

[Homerzilla]

Yeah, that was my guess too

Think something like a Phantom or Krait 2 would also do quite well, they got huge tanks to start with. Don't you think?

not enough big.... the Vette has a 5c /32 tons) - that is - double ! - and in 2 occasions almost I run out of fuel ! Once I docket - no joke here ! - using only vapors, the tank was at zero before reaching the station ( my luck was I was at some sl distance ! ) - and that was in 1/2 hour and 3 rails with plasma slugs.... With the second tank I can stay 1,5 - 2 hours at will and still get back with a quarter tank.... But that is my limit anyway, since that it takes to spend 128 limpets in a Vette build for materials harvest. You will get, anyway, over 100 kills in that time.
Once I put 3 rails with plasma - LOOOL ! - in the FdL - a dozen of shots later I was almost dry !
Since then, my rule become : plasma rails = only big ships.

 

[Ander_Wand]

not enough big.... the Vette has a 5c /32 tons) - that is - double ! - and in 2 occasions almost I run out of fuel ! Once I docket - no joke here ! - using only vapors, the tank was at zero before reaching the station ( my luck was I was at some sl distance ! ) - and that was in 1/2 hour and 3 rails with plasma slugs.... With the second tank I can stay 1,5 - 2 hours at will and still get back with a quarter tank.... But that is my limit anyway, since that it takes to spend 128 limpets in a Vette build for materials harvest. You will get, anyway, over 100 kills in that time.
Once I put 3 rails with plasma - LOOOL ! - in the FdL - a dozen of shots later I was almost dry !
Since then, my rule become : plasma rails = only big ships.

Erm... both the Kraits also have 5C fuel tanks. I don't have one of the large class ships yet, so I thought they have even bigger tanks actually.

 

[Ander_Wand]

I have now also tried my chieftain for the first time with 3 PA's along with the 3 Rails.. Quite like them already, feels very rewarding... if you can connect your shots. My brain is just having some real issues adapting to the two sets of completely different weapons, the delayed shooting of the rails, and the instant, but after 5 shots reloading action of the PA's.

But even with my mediocre aim, this really shines against those big targets, no more endless banking and blazing away at the shields. Not so much against the small stuff though, atm an eagle poses more threat to me then an anaconda.

 

[Homerzilla]

I have now also tried my chieftain for the first time with 3 PA's along with the 3 Rails.. Quite like them already, feels very rewarding... if you can connect your shots. My brain is just having some real issues adapting to the two sets of completely different weapons, the delayed shooting of the rails, and the instant, but after 5 shots reloading action of the PA's.

But even with my mediocre aim, this really shines against those big targets, no more endless banking and blazing away at the shields. Not so much against the small stuff though, atm an eagle poses more threat to me then an anaconda.

When you manage a build with equal success against big, slow and hard targets AND small, agile ones, you meet the ideal point for that ship. Mine build is a mix of LR beams and 4 frags with OC. It Is very rewarding and tons of fun involved.

 

[Kayvan]

Played some Haz tonight with my Laser/MC setup. So ofc normally I want to take the shields out with Lasers only and then switch to MCs. But on high-rank targets or any who prove to have Banks, it's better to screw ammo saving and pump in everything you got. That way I managed to "cancel" a few SCBs by knocking out the shield before the bank had finished charging -- and that saves a lot of hassle. Granted, that way I only managed some 16 targets with one load, but a damn lot of them were really damn durable (Deadly Gunships and stuff).

On the defensive side I haven't regretted getting rid of my own SCB and slapping in a second GSB instead. Still haven't lost my shields since, and whenever it gets close (rarely happens) I just boost away with FAOff briefly and let them recharge. The Chief is not a shield wonder by any means, but for Haz they work. (Also, I think I get hit a lot less often, since I am better at dodging now.)

 

[Homerzilla]

Played some Haz tonight with my Laser/MC setup. So ofc normally I want to take the shields out with Lasers only and then switch to MCs. But on high-rank targets or any who prove to have Banks, it's better to screw ammo saving and pump in everything you got. That way I managed to "cancel" a few SCBs by knocking out the shield before the bank had finished charging -- and that saves a lot of hassle. Granted, that way I only managed some 16 targets with one load, but a damn lot of them were really damn durable (Deadly Gunships and stuff).

On the defensive side I haven't regretted getting rid of my own SCB and slapping in a second GSB instead. Still haven't lost my shields since, and whenever it gets close (rarely happens) I just boost away with FAOff briefly and let them recharge. The Chief is not a shield wonder by any means, but for Haz they work. (Also, I think I get hit a lot less often, since I am better at dodging now.)

That's wise, to scrap the SCB - after you deplete the charge, is only dead weight in your ship AND a blocked internal. On the other hand, GSB ( I use 3 of them in all my "war ships" and not only ! ) - are "4 life" and with an AMFU you can repair them in just 1-2 seconds ; A ship like Cheffy needs any extra shield can gather ( I give up my chaff in order to add one more SB !) so now I stand happy at almost 1600 on shields. All the "work" a SCB can do is equivalent of 2-3 minutes of "out of fire line" for my bi-wave. Worst case scenario I loose a ring maximum 2 but in the next 2-5 minutes my shields are back at 100% with 4 pips in PD.

I only need good shields in order to get "glued" in the Condas/Vettes six, after that I just stay there, pumping frags non-stop and out of the main guns angle, and I take only minimal damage from turreted weapons.
And anything in range of 1400-1500 or more it more than enough to deal with small/medium ships at will, and those do not come near me with full shields - I run 3 LR beams with TV and my ship "freeze" after only 3-5 seconds of fire, so the NPCs have a hard time to target, and when they come near, in the frags range, usually they are naked - with no shields - and there the frags hits do the killing hits.

 

[Kayvan]

4 GSBs, hmmm... Yeah the thought started forming in my head last night, but I didn't do the calcs yet. I should easily have the power now I guess. Do you bring HRP/MRP at all?

I generally bring 4 shield boosters and don't bother with chaff - I'm doubtful I can ID gimballed weapons in time and it's one less thing to pay attention to.

Also I'm considering experimenting with Drag Munitions, particularly to facilitate aiming with Fixed, only problem is I don't know what to ditch for it. The Corrosive MC is a +25% damage boost once shields are down, but swapping out another laser may make me too ammo-dependent.

 

[Ander_Wand]

That's wise, to scrap the SCB - after you deplete the charge, is only dead weight in your ship AND a blocked internal. On the other hand, GSB ( I use 3 of them in all my "war ships" and not only ! ) - are "4 life" and with an AMFU you can repair them in just 1-2 seconds ; A ship like Cheffy needs any extra shield can gather ( I give up my chaff in order to add one more SB !) so now I stand happy at almost 1600 on shields. All the "work" a SCB can do is equivalent of 2-3 minutes of "out of fire line" for my bi-wave. Worst case scenario I loose a ring maximum 2 but in the next 2-5 minutes my shields are back at 100% with 4 pips in PD.

GSB = Guardian Shield Booster? if yes I dont really see the use in that tbh. If you are running a bi-weave setup the number to look at is the shield regen time, the shorter the better imho. If you want huge shields go prismatics/ a-rated. My chieftain only has 650 shields, but regenerates those in 1:28 minutes. I rarely lose even those 'small' shields, and if I do, they are back up in the blink of an eye. I think the resistances are very important in that as well.
The more raw shield MJ the higher the regeneration time, which ultimately defeats the purpose of using bi-weaves.

4 GSBs, hmmm... Yeah the thought started forming in my head last night, but I didn't do the calcs yet. I should easily have the power now I guess. Do you bring HRP/MRP at all?

See above. I have 2 MRP and 4 HRP in my chieftain atm. Though ideally you want 3, which leaves you at 94% module protection instead of 84%. Afaik external modules only get half of the protection from the MRP, which is especially relevant on the chieftain because of those huge exposed thrusters. Think I will adjust my build a bit, to be able to fit a 3rd.

Sure it is also a matter of preference, if you plan around never losing your shields in the first place, than GSB might be ok to use. But then you would be better off in a shield tank FDL anyway.
My chieftain can lose its shields and take a lot of incoming fire with only miniscule module damage until the shields are back up. The MRP soak up most the damage.