Ship Interiors..... Physical Accuracy.... Do You Care

ArchEmperor

ArchEmperor
Interiors of stations, cities, outposts, ships, vehicles, ... are interesting and important for immersive game play. Especially for that RP feel and the VR experience.
There must be a unified system to produce and render it all. Not necessarily at top level graphics, rather place holders at first. But the system for the efficient, lighting fast procedural part, must be in place first.
Inconsistencies in volume, density and current structure layout could be explained by using frame shift technology to fit more into less volume.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Mav359 said:
Ship Interiors..... Physical Accuracy.... Do You Care
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I care, OP, I really do. I've brought up many an inconsistency and the problematic module system over the years, only to get flamed by the typical naysayers. 🤷

Come to Space Engineers, we have cookies and physically accurate interiors!

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[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos
I'm really not that bothered by the whole legs thing in the first place, each to their own though. If Odyssey is going to cost (making this up) £30, I'd happily pay that for an update that was all about SRVs. Caterpillar tracks, different modules for surface mining perhaps, better range of weapons.

So the ship interiors I'm really not fussed about. Having said that, I know others on here have long lusted after such things and I wouldn't vote it down (as it were) to get my wants over theirs.

It is such a weird game this, some people want inner-system stargates to jump from one planet to another, because 'it takes too long to fly there', and others are salivating at the thought of walking a few hundred metres around a ship.
 

Walter2

Walter2
Some excellent work in the videos - must have taken months. The only element the creator forgot was the magic: some components - cargo bays, fuel scoops, etc - have dimensions but no mass.

Greasetrap42 said:
I'm still watching the videos, but there appears to be a basic assumption a cargo unit volume can be based on one metric tonne of water. I thought they were just cargo units. I don't see tons or tonnes used in-game.
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If my failing memory is correct, "tonnes" was replaced with "units" in the second edition of ED.

askavir said:
I don't think accurately modelling modules is in any way important. I mean, do we really need to go inside or even see the collector limpet controller, of the shield generator? Not really. And do we really need to enter the cargo bay and re-arrange the biowaste containers?
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Agreed - there's probably a message printed on all components: Contains no user serviceable parts.

askavir said:
The only modules that might need to be represented are the SRV bay and a SLF bay. If absent, their access doors are shut, on even non-existent (just show a solid wall). Perhaps there could be a case for passenger cabins, which is probably the most complicated case, only because it's odd to have people onboard but completely hidden away.
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Commanders don't even need access to the SLF - they are flown through telepresence.
If you have to carry people, keeping them completely hidden away sounds ideal, but perhaps that's just miserable misanthropic me.
 

Chrystoph

Chrystoph
Kind of odd here, but this also invokes the ship v fighter mentality. Frontier has gone to great lengths to invoke the fighter mindset, and you don't walk around in a fighter.

To make matters worse, Frontier favors a school of design that is not actually founded in physics, but in the Lore and animations of the game. As a result, until you get to Large hulls, the designs don't Have enough space to walk around in.
 

askavir

askavir
Chrystoph said:
Kind of odd here, but this also invokes the ship v fighter mentality. Frontier has gone to great lengths to invoke the fighter mindset, and you don't walk around in a fighter.

To make matters worse, Frontier favors a school of design that is not actually founded in physics, but in the Lore and animations of the game. As a result, until you get to Large hulls, the designs don't Have enough space to walk around in.
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Yeah they do. Even though most of their shapes make them look much smaller, in fact even the Viper is already the size of the space shuttle. And almost all ships are larger than the Viper.

 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Rubbernuke said:
If its Tardis time, I'm going full Kevin McCloud and start shouting at incorrectly aligned parquet flooring and rage at the unevenly lit staircases.
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Bigger On The Inside

Is it my imagination, or will some ships literally be "bigger on the inside" with the next update that gives us two additional module slots in small ships? If nothing else, this proves my theory that modules in ED are nothing but numerical attributes, not actual volumetric space inside our ships...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk
tardis-jpg.127348
 

Turd Ferguson

Turd Ferguson
It has always bothered me that in many of the ships (even some of the big ones) when you stand up from your seat your head pokes through the roof into space.....Flintstones style.

although I’m sure there’s a perfectly good ingame “lore” reason for this (aka lazy dev excuse) having to do with 3D printing or something.

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Chrystoph

Chrystoph
Elite was originally, loosely, based off of Traveller.

If you use the Traveller ship building foundations, namely Tons which is founded in physics to equal 1m^3, a 35 ton hull gets 35m^3. Given your statement, the size of a shuttle, the whole thing is already broken.

Hey, let's move ahead anyway. Dedicated space in the ship for Hardpoints is equal to 12T. The most Mass intensive Core I could generate came to 41.55T. Subtotal 53.55T and we haven't even gotten into OI or Util. By the logic expressed above, that occupies a box 53.55m^3. According to Wikipedia, the shuttle was only 37.237 m.

Bluntly, Frontier CAN'T do this in a believable fashion because they started with an over simplified system, and, without a total rewrite, nothing they do is going to make sense.

This has bit me a couple of times personally because my Jump range changed between session and the next.

To bring this back around to interiors, how can you design an interior when you don't have standards, don't include things like living quarters and common spaces like a mess, etc in the design. Regardless of the made up claimed size, you're flying a fighter because that is how it is designed.
 
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thistle

T
Turd Ferguson said:
It has always bothered me that in many of the ships (even some of the big ones) when you stand up from your seat your head pokes through the roof into space.....Flintstones style.

although I’m sure there’s a perfectly good ingame “lore” reason for this (aka lazy dev excuse) having to do with 3D printing or something.
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Lazy insults about lazy devs aside, it's mainly down to most of the seats being raised 3 feet higher on a pedestal, which presumably drops back down before the pilot gets off. Or in some cases the seat slides back along rails if I remember rightly.
 

thistle

T
I get vertigo sitting in the seat in the Anaconda, it's so swearword high up off the floor. Like a kid who can't reach the pedals on his older brother's bike. Yes, I fell off.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
askavir said:
No need to overcomplicate things.

I don't think accurately modelling modules is in any way important. I mean, do we really need to go inside or even see the collector limpet controller, of the shield generator? Not really. And do we really need to enter the cargo bay and re-arrange the biowaste containers?

The only modules that might need to be represented are the SRV bay and a SLF bay. If absent, their access doors are shut, on even non-existant (just show a solid wall). Perhaps there could be a case for passenger cabins, which is probably the most complicated case, only because it's odd to have people onboard but completely hidden away.

Aside from that, we only need cockpit, some kind of living spaces, outside viewing areas (on ships that have them), the corridors / access areas, SRV/SLF access, external hatch for EVA (when available) and external door. It's enough to make the ships feel alive and a home, and make them actual part of the rest of the game world.

No need to reinvent the wheel, just look at the game that made 300 million freaking dollars out of ship interiors, even without having a game to put those ships in.
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100% agree with this. There is just no need to go to the hold/cargo bay. I'm happy with all of that to be abstract. Little personal things you pick up can be stored in your personal quarters.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Chrystoph said:
Kind of odd here, but this also invokes the ship v fighter mentality. Frontier has gone to great lengths to invoke the fighter mindset, and you don't walk around in a fighter.

To make matters worse, Frontier favors a school of design that is not actually founded in physics, but in the Lore and animations of the game. As a result, until you get to Large hulls, the designs don't Have enough space to walk around in.
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I have no idea how you've come to that conclusion.

This the sidewinder, the smallest ship:
Source: https://youtu.be/RfGfBX2gj2g
 

Vevvev

Vevvev
I've always wondered how the optional modules were placed in the ship. Do they stick it into the cargo scoop as apart of the internal conveyer belt system, or through the rear hatch? Does this mean the modules need assembly once inside the ship or do they unpack themselves?
 

Marcus

Marcus
I am not sure why some in the thread are saying "its impossible" when the OP (and others) posted videos showing it being done... :rolleyes:

Anyway I think the real issue isnt whether it is possible, but whether Fdev have stuck to the design standards they set out at the start of the whole process for all ships both old and new?

I do wonder where the extra slots came from that got added over time to various ships? I can only hope that they made sure they all fit inside interior spaces available when they were added.

I hope that ship interiors get added at some point, but I also wonder what gameplay activities they will support that will make the enormous amount of work required to do it worth while?
 
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