Slave Carriers Update

[Winterwalker]

I think I'd assign a hit squad of ATR dedicated to the carrier's owner and squadron .. notoriety that doesn't degrade, for the forseeable?

Please explain the exact point which that line of yours was crossed. [I've read the rag article and some reddit, if there's more then I don't know it]

In a way, where that line is, doesn't matter. The point is there are things you can do to other players that regular AI might not be equipped to deal with and at some point those actions can go beyond the reasonable and become bullying or exploitation. When that happens you need a resolution and in this case FD is the arbiter. There was no way off the carrier (attacking a carrier gets you killed but I don't think gets called a crime in deep space, so you don't respawn in jail and would that be fair anyway?) and slavery of other players needs disincentvising (all players are in-lore members of the Elite Pilot's Federation).

 

[znôrt]

If you can't see the difference between a simple gank and this scheme,

seems you can't see the difference between facts and gossip. at this point i'm pretty sure half of the story is made up. don't let that stop you from blowing it even bigger and having your moral panic attack, though. you seem to bee enjoying it.

you aren't even actually trying to have a discussion on this.

i think the real discussion totally eludes you, you are too worried about being on the right side.

we could discuss how people gets emotionally trapped in these big balls of hot air. we could discuss about responsible parenting. we could discuss about using kids as clickbait. your own kids, btw, if you listen to the rumors. we could also discuss how players come up with fun and entertaining new ways to actually create gameplay. we could discuss the limits of it, even the moral aspects of it ... once we know a few facts. there are many interesting aspects of this ...

what is what you would like to discuss, apart from your imaginary moral superiority over random internet stranger me?

 

[Red Anders]

I don't really care if I get flamed on this, so...

The vast majority of people on the forum are not new to the game. If you're reading this, you've been around a while, and you understand the game mechanics.

The people getting scammed don't know how the game is played. They probably don't know about self-destruct. They may not know about the freewinder. There are a lot of assumptions being made.

Basically, if I was in that position, I'd assume I was completely screwed and would have to start over. That drives players out of the game.

In short, what the crap slavers was everything short of cool, and defending on the grounds of introducing new aspects of the game is bovine excrement. You people know better. You're clearly okay with exploiting new players. You're also probably okay with kicking kittens, too.

Gank new players in open. That's part of the game. Picking on Harmless players as Elites gets you nothing. It isn't even a challenge. It does nothing except stroke your ego by kicking said kitten. That said, that IS part of the game, so no serious issue there.

Lying to players to board a carrier, jumping them 600+ LY away and tricking them into mining... that's exploitation. That's not a game mechanic. That's deception.

Flame me all you want, but remember that right now you're acting from a position of entitlement. You know the system, you exploit the system (so do I, mining FTW), and even if you're not actually doing the slaving, it's clear that you tacitly condone it.

I don't care who you are, but it's a Richard move and you know it. Stop being a Richard. Find someone your own size to push around, and stop being a damn bully.

I was 44 when I started playing Elite Dangerous. I'd say it was around the early 90s that I learned how to use an internet search engine. That's what I condone - someone who is sat at a computer, playing a computer game, not needing to 'wonder' about these things because they have the means to remove all doubt.

(I'm assuming here that even console players own a phone. And can read.)

 

[Linnunrata]

It's a game. An open world game where you can go out and shoot and kill other people.

Just a hunch, but I'm guessing the core issue in this "scam" was the way how it went from in-game shenenigans to "off-game" herding people into PGs and dodgy discord groups. It's true that it it is incredibly silly to fall into such ruse, but on the other hand I can easily see why FDev doesn't want to endorse these behavioural patterns considering the can of worms that it entails.

 

[Sublime]

I was deceived by The Gnosis

I was deceived by ED’s trailers.

 

[Sublime]

I wonder if that's related:

Comfy Canonn Cruise

The cruise completed on the 8th of January 3308, you can no longer participate! Everyone’s invited on the Comfy Canonn Cruise, to follow in CMDR Marxanthius steps visiting each waypoint of the Canonn Challenge (and Beagle Point)! Links: Itinerary Discord EDSM Expedition Twitter @5xyXlf Email...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Because when I see "Phisto" in the cmdr name I get a tiny bit suspicious ;-)

So if something happens and this guy is unable to log in half way through his trip and needs to stop playing for a while, (or even just chooses to stop jumping his carrier) does he risk being banned over anyone he may end up stranding?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

i think the real discussion totally eludes you, you are too worried about being on the right side.

what is what you would like to discuss, apart from your imaginary moral superiority over random internet stranger me?

See there you go again. You attempt to de-legitimize any position one could take where we judge the slaver as being an unsavory character or just plain wrong, by accusing US of being the extremists on a morally superior crusade.

This is gaslighting plain and simple. I'm not an idiot so I'm not going to fall for this crap.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Is it normal to laugh out your kidneys?

It was brilliant wasn’t ?

 

[znôrt]

I'm not an idiot

let it be publicly known that i never ever called you that!

so I'm not going to fall for this crap.

you did it all by yourself, champ!

 

[VR - wickfut]

it went from in-game shenenigans to "off-game" herding people into PGs and dodgy discord groups.

So these people invited other players to a discord group? What was dodgy about it?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

let it be publicly known that i never ever called you that!



you did it all by yourself, champ!

Never said you did. But you must think I'm an idiot if I'm going to allow you to get away with manipulating things so that we are actually the bad-faith party here and not slavers and liars.

 

[Lootus Maximus]

i really cant believe people were banned for making the game more interesting. not cheating or botting but using in game lore and making it real

 

[Rat Catcher]

Isn't it telling about the Game if "emergent Gameplay" always seems to involve

• mangling others
• killing others
• extorting others
• screwing others over

I don't know, looks like a clear pattern to me
Tells alot, doesn't it?

This Game appears to require some form of detox....

An interesting view on the gameplay options available to us - may I offer a slightly less ominous counterpoint?

I'd guesstimate that in the last 6 months at least all of my in-game 'interactions' with other humans has been entirely cooperative, from simply joining in with squadron mates in a CZ / Magaship Scenario, or going out 12K Ly to bring another player 'home', transport a bunch of total strangers to & from Colonia in one of my FC's or just go and 'fuel rat' one of my own FC's and take an in-game 'friend' along for the ride...

Of course, I do make a point of looking for these interactions as they add something positive to the game for me!

Anyone can do 'stuff' along the same lines as I do, it is a valid 'choice' as much as any other playstyle.
(Or, of course, those others may just blow up ships because it is fun - we are all different)

 

[znôrt]

Never said you did. But you must think I'm an idiot if I'm going to allow you to get away with manipulating things so that we are actually the bad-faith party here.

i never even meant you having bad faith. i just think you got a) carried away by a quite nebulous story and b) have taken a stance that presumes other people are bad.

honestly, it's a bit laughable, but be my guest. bad faith? well, unless you start to actually burn heretics or gouge people's eyes out in the name of good, just rant away! XD

 

[VR - wickfut]

Never said you did. But you must think I'm an idiot if I'm going to allow you to get away with manipulating things so that we are actually the bad-faith party here and not slavers and liars.

Slaver = giving someone a completely optional ultimatum in an open world game which has them actually playing a part of the game but for less imaginary space credits.

This is why it's so pathetic

 

[Red Anders]

I have been playing less than a month, so I think that qualifies me as "new", yes? I believe the "slavers" weren't in the wrong here, they stayed within the game mechanics and found a creative way to do this. I wrote a longer comment already, but the short versions is:

1. If you're dumb enough to fall for this kind of thing in the first place you that's on you. If a "free ship" with a 2ly Jump Range wasn't a red flag you've not been paying attention even a little. "But the windowless van said 'free candy', how was I supposed to know?"
2. The "freewinder" (I like that term) and "Self-Destruct" were items I learned about on day-1 by checking out ship screens for information/functions, and reading the descriptions. Also there's a TON of resources online, 15 seconds on Google will get you the info even if you're only looking in the general direction of "What if I explode?".
3. Slavery is already a part of the game (Imperial Slaves), so morally there's no leg to stand on there - abstracted NPC's vs. players dumb enough to be tricked into a version of it doesn't really seem different to me.
4. It was innovative and inspiring in terms of how truly open the universe is, seeing it punished is more of a deterrent to those of us that do want freedom to try new ways of play - the morality of that should be up to us to decide as individuals so long as it's not actual cheating (e.g. Combat Logging).

Finally, if anyone kicked my cats, I'd be in real jail for what I'd do to them. No one messes with my kittens!

I agree with your points, in particular the final one, and also like the Lev Arris profile pic, loved Privateer 2 even though it was FMV-heavy. Had some great ship designs.

 

[Linnunrata]

So these people invited other players to a discord group? What was dodgy about it?

The content of those discord groups were (allegedly ) dodgy, but that wasn't my point - my point was the manipulation in the scam wasn't "roleplayed" in the in-game "dangerous dog eat dog world", but breached the fourth wall by involving game mode and off-site duping. And that is, in my interpretation, what FDev thought went too far.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

i never even meant you having bad faith. i just think you got a) carried away by a quite nebulous story and b) have taken a stance that presumes other people are bad.

honestly, it's a bit laughable, but be my guest. bad faith? well, unless you start to actually burn heretics or gouge people's eyes out in the name of good, just rant away! XD

I love how you just assume everyone has read that story. I don't patronize that website. I only read it after I heard about it here on the forums to see what the fuss was about with that article. What really sealed it for me was the guys interview with The Pilot. That removed all doubt about his intentions.

But I guess what really bothered me about your approach on this is making the claim that those who simply feel that lying and manipulating others for personal gain is wrong - has something wrong with them in the head or something. Or that we're trying to be some angelical figures on a soapbox or something. That felt like gaslightning clearly. Because it's a perfectly normal, rational, and mainstream view to hold that those things are wrong ethically.

 

[Sublime]

Honestly, things like this just make me want to start ganking. This game is dying.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Nicholas Cage will participate in literally anything these days.

By ‘these days’, I presume you mean his entire career?