Do planet zoo game developer really know what we want in planet Zoo game ???

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
Well, the forum is the only place where they MIGHT read feedback. But I'm not even sure they read this topic. They have a tendency lately, where they equal feedback with unreasoning complaining and personal attacks. And while I wasn't there during the PC days, I was here before release. And boy, they were AWESOME in reading the room and reacting to feedback, up until the second pack. Until then it's more like "we couldn't care less what you think about the company, just buy the packs every three month."
Sadly, Frontier has a monopole on zoo management games, so players like me are in a Sims kind of situation.
(But to be clear: I love the game, I want to support the game. But when I wanted Frontier to have tries on other genres I enjoy, I don't want it anymore. They lost the contact to their community and customer base. Staying in contact would also mean, reacting to negative feedback, taking it serious and acting on it).
 

random goat

random goat
Agree with the last posts in general. I don't question if they read us here in the forum, though. I'd say I'm 99% sure they do read at least these discussion threads, and everything in the feedback section. But for some reason something has changed either in the company as a whole, or in their communication department.

I do think they are a much bigger company than they were when they were working in Planco. But that shouldn't be used as an excuse. In fact, they should escape from this mentality of "bigger companies don't need to engage closely with their playerbase as long as the product is sold well". That's exactly what shouldn't be done, it is not the example to follow by any means. "They are a big company" is a poor excuse/argument, in my opinion. If they are bigger, they should still allocate their (greater) resources in a proportional way to each of their products in order to maintain the same level of attention to their games and playerbase as they did when they were not as "big". Talking about both economic and staff resources.

The difference in the level of engagement through youtube between PC and PZ I presented above is really disheartening and worrying for the future of this game. And the worst thing is that the playerbase is there. The number of sales and active players is definetely not lower than PC's, as far as steamcharts and other platforms report.
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
random goat said:
Agree with the last posts in general. I don't question if they read us here in the forum, though. I'd say I'm 99% sure they do read at least these discussion threads, and everything in the feedback section. But for some reason something has changed either in the company as a whole, or in their communication department.

I do think they are a much bigger company than they were when they were working in Planco. But that shouldn't be used as an excuse. In fact, they should escape from this mentality of "bigger companies don't need to engage closely with their playerbase as long as the product is sold well". That's exactly what shouldn't be done, it is not the example to follow by any means. "They are a big company" is a poor excuse/argument, in my opinion. If they are bigger, they should still allocate their (greater) resources in a proportional way to each of their products in order to maintain the same level of attention to their games and playerbase as they did when they were not as "big". Talking about both economic and staff resources.

The difference in the level of engagement through youtube between PC and PZ I presented above is really disheartening and worrying for the future of this game. And the worst thing is that the playerbase is there. The number of sales and active players is definetely not lower than PC's, as far as steamcharts and other platforms report.
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After posting I realised that at least on the first pages, the overy positive posts got a like from CMs, every post that is a bit more critique does not. So yes, the thread is read. But it feels even more like critical feedback is equaled to unreasonable complaining for them and that's .... no, I better don't insert an adjective here, fill it in for yourself everybody.
Just let me say, if you see your customers as "if you don't cheer for us always and everytime, we don't need you and just ignore you", then it will take your company down a dark road.

I voiced my appreciation for Frontier for a long long time. My opinion changed, when things changed, I didn't suddenly wake up and say "okay, now lets bash on them, I hate them." And in my opinion it's their job to understand the mood shift and act on it and don't cross their arms like "okay then, so we don't like you anymore as well and won't play with you!"
 

Aramar

Aramar
I think we are covering two major points in this thread.

1) Do they listen to us and know what we want in the game?
2) The lack of communication

Regarding the first point, I'm positive. I think that the last big update and DLC included many things that had been long requested, such as the new fonts, flexicolour rocks, flexicolour wood, the stickers and murals... They also added some biomas to some animals based on feedback and aslo brought a bit of diversity to the exhibits with a new design for one of them. In addition, they included some great surprises like the new waterfalls. Of course, not everything was perfect and unfortunately they kept the 4 animal model, which is the major complain, and the multiselect in franchise turned out a big disaster. So for me, the last DLC proved that they do read us and take our opinion into consideration. That doesn't mean they do everything we want, but at least they listen. We have to wait for the next DLC/update to see what they add to the game. Maybe they keep adding more of our requests and we are nicely surprised.

As for the communication issue, I think that's the big problem because we are in the official forum. It is obvious that for some reason they have decided to reduce the communication level to the mininum. I joined the forum between SA and Australia packs, so I don't know how it was before. However, I remember that when the Aquatic Pack came out, Chanté said that they wanted to be more active again and do more live streams like when she joined Rudi on one of his videos. Unfortunately, that never happened. I don't complain about them not communicating about the future of the game, but I get disapointed when they ask us to share our feedback and use the issue tracker and then we don't hear anything back. I keep using the issue tracker, but my issues seem useless because nobody clicks on them and in time they expire. I have reported or supported issues about translation mistakes or game bugs, but I'm still waiting for an answer. I've also sent my game files by email for issues such as the animals having no climbing space when their habitat is full of things to climb or the underwater feeder nor being reachable by the keeper (issues that more people have complained about, including the famous youtubers). And then they promised some things, like more diving animals or a fix for the multiselect in Franchise, but after 2.5 months, we don't get more info about it.

As long as the new DLC/update brings good content, I'll be happy about the game because I will think that despite feeling abandoned for months, the truth is that they are working hard on our feedback without leting us know. However, if the new DLC/update is not up to our expectations, then I'm afraid the interest for the game will drop dramatically.
 

WingardiumLevicoaster

Volunteer Moderator
WingardiumLevicoaster
On my experience in the past, I know that they do take requests on the forum into account, but there are many reasons why they might not be able to fulfill them, they also do not want to over promise, as backlash from that can be damaging. They don't always share reasons as sometimes it might not be appropriate to. Also I suspect that pandemics and working from home is making everyone's job harder. I know in my own job and life I find life is much more difficult now, and I achieve a lot less then I would have done in normal times, and many others at my company and friends I speak to feel the same. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that those at Frontier go through this too which might effect engagement.
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
Working from home might be an excuse for some things, but definately not for all.
"Hey guys, we are sorry there wasn't an anniversary update. We appreciate you as much as all our players, but due to reason X and Y we weren't able to give you a full update. We definately aim for a bigger anniversary next time."

"Hey guys, we heard your feedback regarding lack of animals. We are / are not working on more animals in the future because of A and B."

"Hey guys, we know that this bug is still around. We are / aren't aiming to fix that in the next update (but in an upcomming), we need X details from you / your save files."
can be typed from home as well. Keeping up with community trends can be achieved from home as well, even if official streams can't. Many of us can keep up with what's going on in the community next to another job.

Do they know that building swamps is a current trend? Why did users have to point out JustGoton was on the news with THEIR game? Did they catch that some users are doing live cams from their zoos now, that produces tons of more hours of content = advertisment forn their game? Why not simpy hop into the thread that was asking for the zoos out of the pack trailers and answer if they will share them in the future or why they don't? All that is simple engagement that doesn't really cost much time, but would still be better than only posting updates and "BUY OUR PACK!" call to actions.

No one is asking them to stream out of their bedroom :D
 

NL_Mutso

NL_Mutso
Swjosdotschka said:
Sadly, Frontier has a monopole on zoo management games, so players like me are in a Sims kind of situation.
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That's not entirely true, every dev can decide to make one of those. Frontier is just the first company in years to try it again.
Zoo games aren't an overly popular genre, it does have a following. Small but very dedicated.

paul78 said:
Bottom line is if planet coaster or jwe gets a much expected sequel and the game or games get a big anniversary celebration it looks extremely bad.
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Sorry, I think that's a bit overreacting. Don't think a few upset members on this forum should determine that "rule".
Maybe based on such feedback, they should never do anniversary updates ever again for their games just to avoid this discussion :D (so changing the narrative that PC/JWE were the exception)
Btw, Elite didn't get an anniversary update either.


My experiences with a gaming forum: Usually only the official announcement part is used by the dev but the forum is usually meant for the community to discuss the game.
They do address major bugs but engaging with the public is basically done during the promotion stage of a game and after that it's done.
It's rare to see devs do this differently and i think the reason why a lot of people don't have any issues with the communication.

The comment above from Swjos:
- Don't think any dev needs to answer to something a random member wishes on this forum and certainly don't have to apologize for something they didn't comment/promise/announce. The last part would be just ridiculous.

- Commenting they are working on animals, mean they promise something. (if something happens, they can pull the plug on any game anytime!). A company reputation can easily be damaged permanantly with broken promises. Lionhead Studios (Peter Molyneux) was known for that.
And confirming that they aren't working on more animals, imo not the best way to sell a game.
Some CM feedback (4m depth/hitbox) hasn't been received that well on this forum, don't think such feedback would help either.
Can't even imagine the backlash if they announce we will receive 50 extra animals at most or announce aviaries will not be included.

- Bugs/issues, I agree on that one. More insight in the trending issues would be great.

- The last paragraph is a bit confusing imo, why the need for that level of engagement? That's a very unusual and exceptional request.
 

Ashen Shugar

A
Swjosdotschka said:
Working from home might be an excuse for some things, but definately not for all.
"Hey guys, we are sorry there wasn't an anniversary update. We appreciate you as much as all our players, but due to reason X and Y we weren't able to give you a full update. We definately aim for a bigger anniversary next time."

"Hey guys, we heard your feedback regarding lack of animals. We are / are not working on more animals in the future because of A and B."

"Hey guys, we know that this bug is still around. We are / aren't aiming to fix that in the next update (but in an upcomming), we need X details from you / your save files."
can be typed from home as well. Keeping up with community trends can be achieved from home as well, even if official streams can't. Many of us can keep up with what's going on in the community next to another job.

Do they know that building swamps is a current trend? Why did users have to point out JustGoton was on the news with THEIR game? Did they catch that some users are doing live cams from their zoos now, that produces tons of more hours of content = advertisment forn their game? Why not simpy hop into the thread that was asking for the zoos out of the pack trailers and answer if they will share them in the future or why they don't? All that is simple engagement that doesn't really cost much time, but would still be better than only posting updates and "BUY OUR PACK!" call to actions.

No one is asking them to stream out of their bedroom :D
Click to expand...

I always found it odd that a tech company would blame WFH as a reason not to work. I previously was a financial backer in the Project Cars game. This was developed by a team that worked remotely. We had access to daily builds of the WIP game. So simply the excuses don't wash.

To this day i am still trying to figure out what the community managers do cause it does not appear that they interact with the community in any meaningful way, so why so many?

At the release I had a bug with not being able to log into the bug reporter. After struggling to find a way to actually bug report on the bug reporter, I eventually was kind of directed to a place to report the issues. This ended up with support blaming me and closing the ticket several times. There were others experiencing the same issue at the same time. I gave up out of pure frustration, I was venting this frustration on a streamers discord when a community manager actually took notice. They got the issue fixed but never reached out to me. It was just magically fixed. But yes their support put the blame on the customer. If any of these events happen in my team they would be dismissed.
 

LN

LN
Ashen Shugar said:
I gave up out of pure frustration, I was venting this frustration on a streamers discord when a community manager actually took notice. They got the issue fixed but never reached out to me. It was just magically fixed.
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Question, how did you know it was that CM that helped you out?
 

WingardiumLevicoaster

Volunteer Moderator
WingardiumLevicoaster
I meant every single person working from home without proper spaces or set ups in a pandemic where you are isolated and people are dying around you. Or family members you are worried about could die. Or I'll family members which might not have much time left you are forbidden to see. No proper work from home set ups. For example in my case. I have one monitor not two which I need to be most productive but I don't have space, I have a tiny desk, noisy neighbours that play music all morning and their children scream and stamp in the ceiling above me all afternoon. I'm isolated alone, my WiFi can be poor. In the UK children are at home currently too as schools are closed, so those with children are having to homeschool and deal with many distractions. Many younger team members of tech companies live in house shares and basically sleep and live and eat in the room they are currently working in. It's not a normal work from home situation.
 

DarthQuell

DarthQuell
WingardiumLevicoaster said:
I meant every single person working from home without proper spaces or set ups in a pandemic where you are isolated and people are dying around you. Or family members you are worried about could die. Or I'll family members which might not have much time left you are forbidden to see. No proper work from home set ups. For example in my case. I have one monitor not two which I need to be most productive but I don't have space, I have a tiny desk, noisy neighbours that play music all morning and their children scream and stamp in the ceiling above me all afternoon. I'm isolated alone, my WiFi can be poor. In the UK children are at home currently too as schools are closed, so those with children are having to homeschool and deal with many distractions. Many younger team members of tech companies live in house shares and basically sleep and live and eat in the room they are currently working in. It's not a normal work from home situation.
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Sorry to hear that. It's a horrible situation. Here, last week we had to deal with a drastic cold front. People didn't have power or water for days. So, we had 2 things to deal with. These are difficult times
 

Birini

B
This issue is it’s easy to observe the player base is shrinking. That’s a true-ism. The bigger question is why. Frontier can only tweak a few things and there are probably as many opinions as there are players. Planet Zoo does so much right you hope they can find the secret ingredient so more games that let you focus on design will be made.
 

paul78

paul78
I’m sure the pandemic has caused some chaos for frontier. Which is a shame because it seems like they really had the ball rolling before the pandemic. So worst case scenario you stretch this game out for a few more years. Honestly there’s no reason to rush this type of game. This is the type of game you can work at and spread content over a long period of time. The worst thing about the game is pathing. Which honestly i don’t even acknowledge anymore eventually you just get used to it. @Birini I think there’s a lot of reasons for declining players ranging from the game isn’t near as easy as zt2 in terms of gameplay and the player gets frustrated and gives up. I’ve personally read this many times on various forums. Another is this game tends to take up a lot of time to really make your zoo pop. Building, terraforming, layouts, ect all take time. I only really play on the weekends. Some are upset with the lack of communication and the quantity and speed of content produced. And even tho there’s many more reasons I think another is people who aren’t huge zoo sim players just simply moved on and got bored with the game. Don’t let steam numbers fool you tho there’s a lot bigger player base playing then we think.
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
paul78 said:
Don’t let steam numbers fool you tho there’s a lot bigger player base playing then we think.
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Plus, the players that DO play actually love this game very much and would probably buy anything and everything to step it up. And while I agree that PZ needs a lot of time (as I said in another thread, it's basically a seperate hobby), I don't think that this results in people drifting away. I still think Sims is a similar game when it comes to time commitment and the player base of creative players is huge. However, even the most creative player needs some "play only" time. And with my expirience in Unity (30+ species, aging at 4 times slower, money, CC and all management aspects turned on) there isn't too much to do. So personally, as a player who prefers playing sandbox in every game, I'd say we need more management features. If we had those, even the causual players who enjoy popping down some beautiful workshop items and then just play would come back to the game.

Maybe optional challenges, similar to those in JWE would be nice. And as I said: more complicated, hard to manage animals with more personality.
 

Bearcat9948

Bearcat9948
To answer the original question this thread asked: in short, yes.

I think that the CMs do a pretty good job of communicating with us when we give feedback on bugs or glitches, changes in the UI or gameplay we want to see etc. They can't comment on things like "Oh, will we get such and such species" etc. for obvious reasons. I do think that generally speaking, the development team is well aware of what we want to see from them.

I'm anxious to see what's going to happen with the first dlc of Year 2, because overwhelmingly the largest request or complaint (depending on how you view such things) is that we aren't getting enough animals in the dlcs. I've said this time and again, and I'll continue to hammer this point across, but there simply isn't enough species diversity in this game to keep me interested in playing it. Like, we need to start getting 6 habitat animals at minimum going forward. 4 animals keeps new people occupied for maybe a couple of weeks and then the game gets stale again. We saw this trend start with the South American pack, it got very, very bad with the Australian pack, and even the Aquatic pack that by far added the most to the game was also affected.
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
Personally only having 4 animals was even most noticeable with the Aquatic pack, as there are so many animals that could have been added without huge changes.
With South America I mostly missed the monkeys and lemurs, but I am hopeful they might make it into another pack, maybe with improved climbing and swinging.
 
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