Bounty idea for gankers

[Screemonster]

The problem is that there's no way to detect "unprovoked".

If you get blown up while in a clean ship by another CMDR, then they could be blowing you up for the lulz, they could have intended to pirate you and accidentally fired too much when you ran, they could have intended to pirate you and you responded to their comms with "what are you gonna do, shoot me?", they could be supporting the anarchists in that system and saw you bounty hunting and would like to gently encourage you to go play elsewhere for a while...

I know ganking is a problem, but these draconian punishments that people keep proposing for people that play the game differently to them create even bigger problems, often to the extent of punishing entirely intended parts of the game.

There are like twenty thousand systems in the bubble, we don't need to screw up the entire game's crime and punishment system even more than it already is over the actions that take place in like five of them.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Not really. My Corvette can tank a whole Nav point normally before I bow out and its like skating on butter. The idea came from my experience of stacking several pirate lord / transport / being wanted and having said lords drop in at once. It was crazy and intense.

I'm just thinking about how political assassination missions sometimes go. Honestly though, I do like the idea (another actual consequences for crime idea in the game that might make you think a bit before doing something) and I'd rather have that than what we have currently. In my experience the game can struggle a bit with that much going on.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Not really. My Corvette can tank a whole Nav point normally before I bow out and its like skating on butter. The idea came from my experience of stacking several pirate lord / transport / being wanted and having said lords drop in at once. It was crazy and intense.

I had that going on once. I dropped onto a wingmate who was losing shields against a tough pirate to help them, and was immediately followed by a parade of pirate lords chasing me! It was glorious chaos, big ships popping, sys sec buzzing all over. All ended well.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Being prepared for Open / its open thoughts aside:

Rather than a bounty (which would be gamed I expect- although these days with mining and other profits I don't know) how about being able to deploy a spec ops / Captain level NPC as a revenge based Amazon gift card? The NPC would act like the in system pirate lord spawns, so as the attacker flies about they'll pop in / drop into instances randomly. The only way to stop them is to either zero your notoriety or destroy them- and if each point of notoriety equals one mega buffed NPC having a cloud of ten top end NPCs is going to be quite exciting.

NPCS could be like "I little present from CMDR TinfoilAsp" or something.

For the ganker it adds danger, because I expect they'd be rocking large bounties and would give them something to think about and add inconvenience / complications.

Caveats would be that the option is unavailable if you yourself have notoriety, Powerplay and that it possibly costs some credits if that commander is destroyed by that NPC.

You stole my idea. No wait, I incepted it, that feels better (blazing my own trail... I also scan planets that are already discovered).

 

[Dillon Fallon]

The problem is that there's no way to detect "unprovoked".

If you get blown up while in a clean ship by another CMDR, then they could be blowing you up for the lulz, they could have intended to pirate you and accidentally fired too much when you ran, they could have intended to pirate you and you responded to their comms with "what are you gonna do, shoot me?", they could be supporting the anarchists in that system and saw you bounty hunting and would like to gently encourage you to go play elsewhere for a while...

I know ganking is a problem, but these draconian punishments that people keep proposing for people that play the game differently to them create even bigger problems, often to the extent of punishing entirely intended parts of the game.

It's a complete non-starter anyway. Anything that involves transfer of something from one player to another that involves blowing up other players is open to exploits. It probably wouldn't matter anyway given one of my ships has 500 million on it in bounties. If blowing up a Cutter added a billion to it, I'd just eventually strip and clean the modules, sell the ship and buy a new one.

The 2 million cap a bounty hunter gets from player kills isn't going anywhere without significant reworking of the game anyway so it's all a bit moot.

 

[Screemonster]

It's a complete non-starter anyway. Anything that involves transfer of something from one player to another that involves blowing up other players is open to exploits. It probably wouldn't matter anyway given one of my ships has 500 million on it in bounties. If blowing up a Cutter added a billion to it, I'd just eventually strip and clean the modules, sell the ship and buy a new one.

The 2 million cap a bounty hunter gets from player kills isn't going anywhere without significant reworking of the game anyway so it's all a bit moot.

I'm pretty sure that at high notoriety levels if you're using a big ship and clubbing weak ones, the bounty values per kill can start getting higher than a lot of cheap ship rebuys anyway. Like a basic exploration-fit DBX that you're going to see a new player flying in Deciat as babby's first explorer ship is going to have a rebuy of less than a million.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm just thinking about how political assassination missions sometimes go. Honestly though, I do like the idea (another actual consequences for crime idea in the game that might make you think a bit before doing something) and I'd rather have that than what we have currently. In my experience the game can struggle a bit with that much going on.

You'd obviously need to test it because as you say sometimes stuff goes wrong.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Hi All, i had a thought; wouldn’t it be an idea to raise the bounty on ships that attack other players unprovoked to the amount of the rebuy of the destroyed ship? This gives the ganked player some sense of justice, makes life more intense for the ganker and gives bounty hunters a little extra for their effort? I don’t know if this has been proposed earlier, the thought (after being destroyed again for no reason) just crossed my mind.
Opinions? Take care, 07

I've seen bounties on players in the billions (one of my own ships has a BGS/RP related bounty in the nine digits), credits are not going to deter the determined given the game's credit pipes are broken left right and centre, and as such any perceived sense of justice for the ganked player would be rather hollow I imagine.

Not to mention that when I get ganked and my ship explodes, what I immediately ponder about isn't how the game should punish the ganker, but how I failed to let it happen in the first place. There are ways to avoid it, even in a non-engineered paper ship. If you have doubts I'm more than happy to give pointers.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Lets look at this the other way.

If you make repeated claims for car accidents, then your premium goes up. Lets have it in the game that the more rebuys you face, the more you pay for the rebuy. That way, you might take more care when playing.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Well, ok, but some players go in for arranged fights, or consensual PvP at least. Lets say I kill 10 CMDRs in a week, they were all perfectly ok with it, I'm going to get punished for it?

Turn crimes against me Off

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

I've seen bounties on players in the billions (one of my own ships has a BGS/RP related bounty in the nine digits), credits are not going to deter the determined given the game's credit pipes are broken left right and centre, and as such any perceived sense of justice for the ganked player would be rather hollow I imagine.

Not to mention that when I get ganked and my ship explodes, what I immediately ponder about isn't how the game should punish the ganker, but how I failed to let it happen in the first place. There are ways to avoid it, even in a non-engineered paper ship. If you have doubts I'm more than happy to give pointers.

For me, yes we're "old" enough and ugly enough to take it all on the chin. The person you want to help is the new CMDR whose open play experience is killed by a bad early experience that prejudices their view of the mode from then on.

I was surprised at how safe open was when I started playing. But there are plenty who had a different experience that, due to some unlucky set of events, or sensitivity, were tipped the other way and miss out on the "best" () mode.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Lets look at this the other way.

If you make repeated claims for car accidents, then your premium goes up. Lets have it in the game that the more rebuys you face, the more you pay for the rebuy. That way, you might take more care when playing.

This amounts to a call for any kind of realistic consequence to aggressive PvP action. There are lots of options. In fact any "ganker" worth their salt really wants consequences - they want the game to respond to them, and provide "meaningful gameplay" for PvP. Currently only players respond (erratically, via revenge, thrown toys, or whatever else), which has to do in lieu of anything else.

 

[Screemonster]

Not to mention that when I get ganked and my ship explodes, what I immediately ponder about isn't how the game should punish the ganker, but how I failed to let it happen in the first place. There are ways to avoid it, even in a non-engineered paper ship. If you have doubts I'm more than happy to give pointers.

This is a huge thing, it's actually been covered in a few articles about open world PvP systems and the various takes on it - generally speaking, punishment is completely ineffective at both deterring ganking and at making those that get ganked feel better about it, and at worst it can be weaponised to trick someone else into receiving the punishment.

If some explorer returns after six months out in the black and decides to return to the bubble specifically by plotting a route to Jameson Memorial in open, and some memer in a frag mamba yanks and obliterates him halfway between the star and the station, then no amount of punishment will bring that six months of exploration data back. The ganker could literally be banned from the game forever and the explorer would still have all that work up in smoke. The ganker could literally have an aneurism and die on the spot from laughing so much and fall out of their chair and crush the family's beloved dog, and their mother could be so bereaved from the news that she never recovers from the loss of her child while their father descends into a spiral of alcoholism that ruins his job and leads him to an early grave as well, and none of this horrific, tragic chain of events would improve the explorer's situation.

 

[Viscera]

A bit off the original dead horse flogging, but that is one i have never understood.

You keep all the mats you gather on ship death

Yet

You lose exploration data?

 

[varonica]

Hi All, i had a thought; wouldn’t it be an idea to raise the bounty on ships that attack other players unprovoked to the amount of the rebuy of the destroyed ship? This gives the ganked player some sense of justice, makes life more intense for the ganker and gives bounty hunters a little extra for their effort?

So I've just been ganked on returning to the bubble, lost over a billion in exploration data and I get a sense of justice because the ganker has to pay 50m because he destroyed my Phantom? Hang on, let me think.....nope, still going solo with that much data!

 

[Deleted member 182079]

For me, yes we're "old" enough and ugly enough to take it all on the chin. The person you want to help is the new CMDR whose open play experience is killed by a bad early experience that prejudices their view of the mode from then on.

I was surprised at how safe open was when I started playing. But there are plenty who had a different experience that, due to some unlucky set of events, or sensitivity, were tipped the other way and miss out on the "best" () mode.

We all started as noobs at some point, and I think it depends on the individual's general attitude towards loss in the game how they want to handle it.

I used to get ganked almost immediately after I unlocked ShinDez - back then the system was very busy with wings of gankers all the time, so every single trip to Jameson's was basically a death parkour run. Sometimes I managed it, other times I didn't - but I always tried to understand what went wrong and learned from it, and this has made me become a better pilot as a result. I actually went ahead and made Jameson's my home station, to run missions out of, and would often test certain (non-combat) builds to see if they can withhold a player attack while still keeping their utility. It's absolutely possible as long as one doesn't min-max - if you prefer that you either accept the occasional loss (my T9 hauler/miner is shieldless, I still fly it in Open and if I get blown up it's my own fault for taking that risk, but I enjoy the buzz I get from doing so) or you switch modes which is perfectly fine.

There's this particular rather well-known ganker, he must've gotten me dozens of times in the past, including when I was flying a Beluga in a random system (pure chance he came across me tbh) and he used the fact I had various mine launchers fitted for defence against me. As a result, rebuy aside, I lost half a dozen passenger missions that I was almost done with after jumping hundreds of LY across the bubble, and it did take me a minute or two to process this - but it was my fault because I didn't fit the ship correctly, and applied the wrong flight maneuvers as well. However, I learned another bunch of valuable lessons during that incident, including how useless mines are for defensive purposes at least.

Fast forward to today and I still come across him in the usual ganker hotspots, but he and others don't even engage me anymore (depending on the ship I fly, of course) because I learned to fly evasively and build my ships in a way that makes it very difficult for him to destroy them before I wake out, or dock.

 

[Vetinari]

Makes sense that the insurance company would go after the party at fault for the whole cost of replacing the ship, they do now.

I think the difficulty is the 'unprovoked' bit. In some cases I have read about, a skilled player can fire shots right near a CMDR but not land one. That CMDR then feels they are being attacked and responds with shots of their own, those shots land. It then appears that the 2nd CMDR started the fight.

Start it from the 2nd Cmdr destroyed or only if with Notoriety present.

Well, ok, but some players go in for arranged fights, or consensual PvP at least. Lets say I kill 10 CMDRs in a week, they were all perfectly ok with it, I'm going to get punished for it?

Crimes Off means no penalties, like now. Anarchies however....would the Ins Company charge the victim more for driving 'off-road' which wasnt covered in the standard policy? Maybe a 10-20% rebuy in Anarchies?

 

[Mcleansc]

I agree, kind of. Leave the bounties the same, but on top of the usual response to a murder, the insurance rebuy should immediately be footed by the offender so the ganker pays the rebuy, not the victim. It could be deactivated in CG's, CZ's, PP and RES's to maintain player interaction.

I like the role playing aspect of pirates. I like the added threat that a PVP ship supporting anarchy appears and I gotta run when bounty hunting in a RES. But if you've been ganked in an exploration ship by a player with a bespoke PVP build (I don't care how engineered your DBX is, you aren't surviving a FDL attacking you) then it's no fun.

If someone decides to bully defenceless ships the victim shouldn't be punished more than the offender. If you're baited into attacking a ship and don't want a hefty fine, don't destroy it. If you accidentally destroy a ship then you deserve the fine for carelessness. Pirating and accidentally blow the ship up? You're the one carrying out an illegal activity on a law abiding Cmdr, if you blow their ship up in the process of robbing them, guess what, you deserve the fine. I think a fine instead of a bounty is effective because it means rich gankers can just continue, but the victim isn't left out of pocket.

Does GTA not have something similar? If you destroy a player's owned vehicle you pay whatever the car costs? Or their insurance costs? I think that's a perfectly fair system.

 

[alexzk]

I want to remind everybody that gankers excuse their self saying "It is is Dangerous, so if u fly open bla-bla-bla". However, they do not have any danger. So if they want some danger, let it be given - no rebuy. Ship lose is permanent.

If you made some kill by accident, happens - just jump out to safe, make whatever it takes to clean that 1 kill in your name and never be provoked again. All MMOs which punish PK have provocations as well. In most cases you can run away and clean your name.

 

[Bigmaec]

This will propably end as well as the last thousand threads on this topic.