It's time for a hard look at piracy.

[Drelthar]

Well, not sure it was you, but the harpoon idea seems ripe for abuse.

It would entirely depend on how it was implemented.

All I want, is a way to stop ships that already have their thrusters down.

As they have their thrusters down when this thing is useful, it's exactly as things stand now - but you can stop things that are already helpless.
If their thrusters come online, they can pull the harpoon or whatever it is out of their ship and continue as though it didn't exist.

I'd settle for just making it so that ships come to a stop when their thrusters blow out (as they do when the power plant blows out, in case anyone wonders about "realism" in a game with friction in space )

I do wonder what abuse you were thinking of though, as I'm pretty sure whatever it is, already exists in some form.
If it's people holding you in place forever - well, welcome to shooting the thrusters just as they are coming back online - for instance.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It would entirely depend on how it was implemented.

All I want, is a way to stop ships that already have their thrusters down.

As they have their thrusters down when this thing is useful, it's exactly as things stand now - but you can stop things that are already helpless.
If their thrusters come online, they can pull the harpoon or whatever it is out of their ship and continue as though it didn't exist.

I'd settle for just making it so that ships come to a stop when their thrusters blow out (as they do when the power plant blows out, in case anyone wonders about "realism" in a game with friction in space )

I do wonder what abuse you were thinking of though, as I'm pretty sure whatever it is, already exists in some form.
If it's people holding you in place forever - well, welcome to shooting the thrusters just as they are coming back online - for instance.

Yes, it would depend on how its implemented. It could be funny if thrusters were not down and you used the harpoon and your target started dragging you along out of control

Presume it would have to break the cable if the target still had thrusters.

The whole drifting with thrusters out is annoying. Just as annoying as NPCs who continuously reboot despite having their whole ship in tatters and one more shot is sure to kill them.

 

[Drelthar]

Yes, it would depend on how its implemented. It could be funny if thrusters were not down and you used the harpoon and your target started dragging you along out of control

Presume it would have to break the cable if the target still had thrusters.

The whole drifting with thrusters out is annoying. Just as annoying as NPCs who continuously reboot despite having their whole ship in tatters and one more shot is sure to kill them.

Sounds like we agree entirely.

Nice.

 

[Rebel Yell]

A simpler version of the harpoon could be a sort of magnetic beam... there's no further "hardware" involved (so no need to "break a cord" or implement drag dynamics) I mean some kind of module (or weapon) which once fired keeps the target sheep "tied" to the firing ship for a certain amount of time.

 

[Drelthar]

A simpler version of the harpoon could be a sort of magnetic beam... there's no further "hardware" involved (so no need to "break a cord" or implement drag dynamics) I mean some kind of module (or weapon) which once fired keeps the target sheep "tied" to the firing ship for a certain amount of time.

Or just, while Thier thrusters are down.

 

[Dunkel Reynolds]

A simpler version of the harpoon could be a sort of magnetic beam... there's no further "hardware" involved (so no need to "break a cord" or implement drag dynamics) I mean some kind of module (or weapon) which once fired keeps the target sheep "tied" to the firing ship for a certain amount of time.

That would be a good idea for FSD interdictor in normal space

 

[Lennox Dantes]

All good suggestions, but frontier is more interested in making immersion breaking indestructible ships.

1. Put a 1 minute cooldown when logging off in space. 15 seconds is a joke.

2. Make rare trading more lucrative.

3. Black market sell prices are awful.

4. Quick comms would be nice.

5. Hatch breakers take cargo quicker.

6. Too many NPCs. In general. Its cheesy. Reduce all NPCs 50%

7. Raise ship rebuy costs.

8. It is immersion breaking that in the dead of space, everyone knows if I attack someone. Its stupid. Reduced fines in Med and Low sec systems.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

All good suggestions, but frontier is more interested in making immersion breaking indestructible ships.

1. Put a 1 minute cooldown when logging off in space. 15 seconds is a joke.

2. Make rare trading more lucrative.

3. Black market sell prices are awful.

4. Quick comms would be nice.

5. Hatch breakers take cargo quicker.

6. Too many NPCs. In general. Its cheesy. Reduce all NPCs 50%

7. Raise ship rebuy costs.

8. It is immersion breaking that in the dead of space, everyone knows if I attack someone. Its stupid. Reduced fines in Med and Low sec systems.

1) I used to disagree because i was mainly thinking "if you can't kill someone in 15 seconds who is running in a straight line you're not going to kill them in a minute either, so why change it?". But in relation to piracy, 1 minute isn't enough either. Assuming you can stop the target (take out their FSD, thrusters, whatever) then you've still got to get the limpets on the go. So 1 minute is also useless. Another problem is sometimes people do just need to quit, you can't stop people quitting if they need to. One option is to remove the confirmation once the timer is over, so they auto quit after that. At least people who have to jump away can relax knowing they won't be left floating in space and eventually blow up due to running out of fuel. So.... i'm actually back to thinking how changing the timer doesn't really help except in the case of where you want to kill someone rather than pirate them, in which case, i'm back to my initial thought, if you can't kill them in 15, you won't kill them in 60. Git gud

2) How is this related to piracy?

3) Pretty decent i think. 75% of value isn't it? Not bad for something you effectively get for free.

4) Yes, absoloutely. NPC comms would be fantastic, getting an NPC to submit when you have its shileds and weapons down rather than them constantly trying to run even when all it will take is one more shot for them to blow up. Its downright silly.

5) Hmm... i don't think they are particularly slow. I suppose their "hack" time could be increased, although its only about 5 seconds isn't it?

6) What? For piracy more NPCs are needed! It can get a bit tedious sitting around in SC waiting for a likely target to appear.

7) What does it matter? Credits are out of control. Double or triple the costs, it won't impact people much.

8) Why is it immerson breaking? Ships have comms. When you attack the defender transmits to the local security that it is under attack by your ship. Also why reduce fines? Again, credits are pretty meaningless these days. Wait! Are you a bad boy pirate who actually pays their fines? Wow....

 

[Drelthar]

2) How is this related to piracy?

You could hang out in systems people would potentially sell rares in, or, follow people from rare selling systems using a wake scanner, and pirate them for their rare goods.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You could hang out in systems people would potentially sell rares in, or, follow people from rare selling systems using a wake scanner, and pirate them for their rare goods.

Ah, i see. Yeah, it might help, but as long as LTDs and other minerals are more profitable i don't see a big increase in rares traders, and if they make rares as profitable as the other stuff then that just makes the whole situation with the economy worse.

 

[hooperjp]

PLEASER FIX THIS

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I find it quite funny that since this thread was raised, piracy has gone from a high skill, below average pay activity, but still something that would make some credits, to something that isn't worth doing unless you really like firing hatchbreakers at ships.

Which I do, TBH. It's never a way of earning credits at a decent pace compared to anything else though.

 

[Brrokk]

Wow, necro!

 

[dekot]

Wow, necro!

Is it necro if the problem was never fixed?

 

[Tividar]

Give the functionality to Hatchbreaker limpet controllers. Target the Hatch subsystem and you get cargo. Target a destroyed Drive subsystem and the limpet brings the ship to a halt.

 

[Drelthar]

Give the functionality to Hatchbreaker limpet controllers. Target the Hatch subsystem and you get cargo. Target a destroyed Drive subsystem and the limpet brings the ship to a halt.

If the ship has no thruster power, yeah

 

[Brrokk]

To fix piracy it's necessary to fix ganking.

All the recommended responses to being interdicted (Rinzler's video; anti-gank Academy) focus on escaping as quickly as possible, not waiting to hear any piratical demands. The reason is simple: a ganker build can destroy you in seconds.

Creating weapons which immobilise a ship for piracy will also immobilise it for exploding. Even if equipping the immobiliser means you can't also carry destructive weapons, a gank wing will easily solve this by having one immobiliser build and the rest exploder builds.

To make piracy work well, it has to be the case that an interdicted ship loses nothing by pausing to listen to demands, and this requires that ganking (destroying with no in-game reason) is completely stamped out.

This could be done, but the cure might seem worse than the disease. The best idea I can come up with is that, if you have notoriety, it doesn't decay and you pay a huge fine as soon as you dock anywhere (including on your own carrier). If you can't pay the fine, your ship is taken instead and you get a stock sidewinder. With that in place I think pointless exploding would stop and it would become fairly safe to stop and bargain with pirates.

<Edit> Well, I have one off-the-wall idea. What about a tractor beam with the following properties:
1. The target ship cannot charge FSD or use thrusters or weapons.
2. Any damage taken by the target ship is transferred to the pirate ship!
3. If negotiations break down, the pirate has to turn the beam off before he can deploy his hardpoints.

 

[ohforf3]

I do love the idea of a tractor beam/tow cable. It would not only be good for pirates to restrain the ship they are looting but also for rescue and salvage operations.

Tow an NPC to a station for a reward or when you come across a wrecked ship being able to haul it back and sell for scrap. Needless to say the super cruise speed and jump range of your ship would be severely nerfed while doing so. It would also be good for someone else's suggestion for guardian tech with Odyssey as you explore ruins on foot and open the hanger in the ruins so your ship can grab and tow the wreck home for repairs.

As to complaints about black market prices. Normal stolen goods should be worth less than their legal counterpart since it is a trade off for people buying them no questions asked. Contraband and classified items(trade secrets, military plans, and prototypes) should be high value since there is no legal method of getting them and your being paid for the risks of bringing them in.

 

[ethelred]

Stakes wise a PvP encounter doesn't offer much to the pirated party, there's no incentive to submit and stick around ( especially when you can menu log).

If traders could buy "goods and data" insurance that might mitigate it a little.

I love the "harpoon but can't shoot" modules for quick cargo Xfer but the obvious issue is the obvious exploits this could introduce.

With the danger of logging always present one radical way could be to abstract the whole process into a new un-quitable mini game that results in a fixed % of cargo being xferred to the pirate, but both ships ending in separate instances so piracy never equals destruction.

Both traders and pirates could then access modules to give bonuses to this minigame to improve their chances. Does make it a bit hands off though :-(

Finally, pirated cargo should be worth a load more to encourage the activity - but even more than this, in game leaderboards of PvP tonnage stoken, where the pirated vessel is not destroyed , as well as top minigame winning traders should be a thing.

 

[noruzenchi86]

- The Cargo Hatch needs to release all cargo at 0%. It can be very difficult to hit on a rolling target, this should be rewarded.

Totally agree. I've heard there's a technique to stop a ship involving Packhounds. Not something I've unlocked yet, but maybe one day I will.

Packhounds beg to differ. You can quite literally just throw them against whatever subtarget you want to annihilate and get your entire target's cargo stash.

You have bound keys to cycle your target's subtargets, right?