Add ALL Double eng. To tech broker or stop adding them

Not making them available in some way is a disincentive to newer players, or older players considering a restart, if they're interested in doing PVP. Even if you're full on G5 engineered if your opponent is chock full of double engineered modules you're still at a significant disadvantage.
Quick question, do you frequently engage in PVP at all? Like, serious PVP, at Shinrarta? Just curious.

If you hadn't noticed though, FDEV has been phasing these dual engineered modules in slowly over time, which are unlocked via human tech brokers at stations. The novelty of this approach is appreciated by a wide number of players, myself included, who have no complaints over it at this time. The system is interesting, and adds some much needed spice into the stagnant meta of the outfitting screen through the release of some rather neat modules.

This system is in no way unique to Elite either. Collectible trading card games, such as Magic: The Gathering for instance, have what are known as promotional cards, or promotional art variants. These are released on a limited, and usually, temporally limited scale. And will sometimes be made available through a later release. Magic also features a whole host of rare and obscure oddities and collectibles from its 20+ year history, which add to the richness and organic feel of a personal individual's collection. And yet the only major barrier we find to new players is the game's learning curve.

This is beginning to turn into a wall of text, so I'll summarize, tl;dr:
If the modules are phased in over time, I fail to even understand what your argument is.
 
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I hope they follow through on the double-engineered stuff being available at tech brokers. Real life is a thing, and sometimes its just not feasible to do CGs.
 
I don't see any problem with the CG modules so far. FD have shown skill in selecting modules which are interesting ideas but not game-changers. None of them have been must-haves so far, but they've been a good way to add interest in CGs for those who don't need the credits anymore.

I don't mind whether they continue to make them available or not. I think it's right that the material cost at a tech broker should represent the effort of getting into the top whatever-percent of a CG though.
 
I think the only limited complaint I have is that modules targetted for explorers (like the DSS with an expanded radius) are "sprung" on the explorer community during a limited event they have to participate in for one week. Without any warning.

If you may recall, professional explorers are, at any given point, all over the place in the galaxy, and may not be able to return to the bubble on short notice. So I think if FD sticks to "limited edition modules" it would really be great if they gave people more warning, especially in cases of exploration modules.

The way things are now, there's a "limited edition" module out there, useful only to explorers, that many explorers don't have because ... they were out doing explorer stuff. And, as far as I know, there are no plans to bring it back. This seems silly to me.

One thing games like Monster Hunter World do for limited events is have a calendar for them posted in advance, so people can plan ahead.
 
These double engineered or Experimental Engineered rewards are the only thing of value the CG's ever had in my opinion.

I don't want them to be permanently exclusive of course, some people can't make a CG and it would suck if they could never get these items. (To say nothing of newer players or YOLO restart RPers)

Solution seems simple though right? The first time one of these modules is introduced, it's Exclusive to the CG participants for a while, but after whatever time period is appropriate, another CG is introduced which makes the module available the same way the Super FSD is.
 
The way things are now, there's a "limited edition" module out there, useful only to explorers, that many explorers don't have because ... they were out doing explorer stuff. And, as far as I know, there are no plans to bring it back. This seems silly to me.
They've brought two of the modules in permanently through Tech Brokers now. If they keep the pattern of putting the oldest ones to Tech Brokers first, the DSS will be the next one. How long that takes, sure, they're not going to announce the plans for that. But I don't see any reason to expect it won't show up at some point.

(The DSS isn't only useful to explorers - lots of inhabited space POIs it makes it a lot easier to find - and unless you map a lot of gas giants you'd never make back the time spent obtaining the double-engineered version anyway: you're saving maybe a probe per planet on average, which in the context of decelerating to mapping range and accelerating away again to map the next one, is virtually irrelevant. If they'd gone for the original plan of making probe ammo limited and synthesisable, then it would be a must have.)
 
@OP
If the double engineered modules were anything actually overpowered, then I kinda understand the concern. But they are not. They're just unique.

Take the long range high cap rails from a couple of weeks back. I got myself a pair and that's great because it just so happened to be what I needed on my reverski rail krait...
... and I promptly got rid of them in favor of normal engineered long range rails. You know why? Because the high cap mod inreases the power draw and my armored power plant didn't like that, while in prolonged combat (e.g. 2hrs in CZs or HazRes) all it does is make me synth 10ish times instead of 12ish on these two guns.

FDev carefully picks the double mods so that the result isn't OP. The only actually OP double engineered thing is the FSD v1 which is at the broker.

Tldr; this is much ado about nothing.
 
Don't forget the double engineered surface scanner which is still unobtainable.
How the f is that OP in any way??? If you have any brain and take 5 minutes to practice, you will nail any planet within efficiency target without any engineering and standard engineering makes it a breeze. Double engineering doesn't save you any significant amount of time (you don't spend nearly as much time DSSing as you do on pretty much any other activity), it doesn't unlock anything otherwise impossible to achieve. Out of the last 50 planets I scanned with my not even G3 engineered scanner I failed to achieve the efficiency bonus on just one and only because I couldn't be bothered to fly around the planet to nail the last probe, something I couldn't do from where I approached only because the planet had a MASSIVE ring system. And even then all I lose is what? A hundred thousand credits? Oh geez what a loss, that's like 1/5th of a single void opal o_O .

The FSDv1 on the other hand is OP because it bumps your jump range to a level unobtainable without it to a ship with class 5 FSD. This means there are some worlds that you physically can't get to without it (in a ship with class 5 FSD). It also shaves off significant amounts of travel time, something that an explorer easily spends the vast majority of their time on.

No, the double engineered DSS is not op. It's a gadget.
 
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It trivializes surface scanning significantly, in so far that on most scanworthy worlds, only 2 up to 4 probes are needed
I repeat, how is that OP?

Most scanworthy worlds require 6 probes and I always nail the target unless I literally refuse to be bothered. Sometimes it's 7 probes.
You're going to take 5 seconds. I will take 12 seconds, maybe 15 seconds in case of a 7-probe world. There is no brain required, I immediately know where to shoot by just reading the target count, it's only a matter of waiting for the DSS to resupply the last two probes.

Amazing, that gives you 7-10 seconds of your life back per scanworthy world.
Considering how scanwrothy worlds are not in every system and how incomparably more time you spend jumping, FSSing and supercruising, this is an absolutely miniscule, insignificant bonus.
 
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This system is in no way unique to Elite either.

But it is new to Elite. All old CG rewards were universal at end of CG or just for decoration. Its easy to see why people get annoyed that they missed out due to exploring or RL or that someone else now has an advantage over them that they cant get right now, that shouldn't be hard to understand.

If all the rewards were not weapons and just scanners and probes not many people would care, if they are perceived to be OP weapons then its natural people will not like it. Luckily apart from the Rails they haven't been OP and luckily we all hope that at some point they appear in the Tech Broker anyway, but atm the time for them to appear universally is causing some people to get upset. Rightly or wrongly it is happening.

Personally Id rather have a decal and put everything else into Engineering or Tech Broker* thats it but its something they are trying out so at least they are trying something, but balance and perceived balance is everything in an MMO. If they dont appear in Tech Broker at some point then I wouldn't turn the fan on is all I'm saying. New players are starting every day, new players will join for Odyssey, this sort of thing will create salt as if you paid earlier you win. Atm I assume they know that and have a plan for it....

*If the CG hits Tier X Y or Z then the Tech Broker will now offer double engineered ABC module / weapon etc - universal rewards that still encourage participation in that actual CG and if there's a way to do it a discount for CG participants for limited period as a bonus, or reward bonus mats for %s to discount the cost G1 for top 100% up to G5 for top 10%.
 
I repeat, how is that OP?

Most scanworthy worlds require 6 probes and I always nail the target unless I literally refuse to be bothered. Sometimes it's 7 probes.
You're going to take 5 seconds. I will take 12 seconds, maybe 15 seconds in case of a 7-probe world. There is no brain required, I immediately know where to shoot by just reading the target count, it's only a matter of waiting for the DSS to resupply the last two probes.

The idea of the probe limit was to introduce challenge to mapping worlds, there's a monetary reward attached to succesfully mapping a world in the probe count, it's got nothing to do with how long it takes. I have never failed to scan in under the limit on my main account although I haven't worried to much on my Alpha account, I do have an engineered DSS though so it's pretty easy. If it is made so easy you can never fail then they may as well remove the mini-game altogether and just make mapping bodies use one probe because now there's no point in requiring multiple probes. They should also remove the monetary bonus as well since everyone can get it with no effort.
 
HOLD ON, are you calling the CG rails OP?? Why would you say that??

Simply because most of the PVP players and gankers (in game and on the forums and in this I defer to them) say they are and I haven't seen any comments bar the one above about the Krait build specifically that says any different. Happy to be wrong if you can point me to the threads / posts but then I would question why we have double engineered in the first place if they are just an advertising gimmick that doesn't offer any advantage at all and potentially mislead players about what they are getting. Balance and perceived balance is everything in an MMO.

I haven't used mine yet, (Im PVE only bar CQC) one is still 'hot' and not even cleaned, still deciding whether I will ever use it as broke the original CG T&Cs which I just hate but thats a different story, but I know the DSS has saved me hours already waiting for the next probe to load and is definitely an 'advantage' over the old G5 one for me and my game.
 
Simply because most of the PVP players and gankers (in game and on the forums and in this I defer to them) say they are and I haven't seen any comments bar the one above about the Krait build specifically that says any different.
Logically, what's the advantage of the CG rails? 100% more ammo at the cost of 50% more power draw, 40% higher reload and 30% higher mass.
Ok so now let's look at synth cost for Rail ammo (40 shots) - 2 iron, 1 vanadium. It's literally the cheapest ammo synth in existence.
It takes me 15 seconds to reload 40 shots on all 5 rails and having a full stock of iron and vanadium allows me to do it 30 times in a row (150 synths).

There's nothing OP about the CG rails, they're merely convenient and only if you can suffer the extra power draw, mass and reload. I know I struggled on my Krait with an Armored PP until I actually got rid of them in favor of normal Long Range rails.

Happy to be wrong if you can point me to the threads / posts but then I would question why we have double engineered in the first place if they are just an advertising gimmick that doesn't offer any advantage at all and potentially mislead players about what they are getting. Balance and perceived balance is everything in an MMO.
Every single game has vanity stuff in it and these weapons really are that. The double modification combinations are literally the LEAST impactful combinations possible.
I would instantly riot on the forum if I learned that there's e.g. a multicannon with any combination of Efficient, Long/Short Range, Overcharged and Rapid Fire mods that I cannot get. That would be OP as all hell.
High Capacity would be OP if there wasn't synthesis.
High Capacity might be considered powerful if synthesis was really expensive, like using multiple G3-4 mats.
But the way it is, in the context of Rails and their cheap-as-hell synth - it's just a convenience bonus with a few notable drawbacks. That's it.
I haven't used mine yet, (Im PVE only bar CQC)
I use 5 rails on a reverski Krait for PVE and there's literally nothing I can't do with pretty much no effort at all - High CZs, HazRes, Threat7 Pirate activity. Elite-level wing assassination missions are the only thing that gives me any challenge, by which I mean that I might lose 50% of my shields if I'm sloppy about it.
Your point being?
I know the DSS has saved me hours already waiting for the next probe to load and is definitely an 'advantage' over the old G5 one for me and my game.
If DSS saved you "hours" waiting for probes to load, then (considering how miniscule percentage of your exploration time you actually spend scanning and how your improved DSS shaves only 10 seconds per world) you must have spent weeks exploring. And I don't mean weeks of a couple of hours per every other day, I mean literal weeks of non-stop staring at a mostly-black screen with bright dots and "discovering" virtual worlds for virtual money.

You sir could become fluent in two foreign languages if you only spent that time learning them instead.

I'm not saying you shouldn't play the game you enjoy, by all means do so. I'm doing the same. Everybody needs to relax. But don't call this double engineered gadget an "advantage" because it saved an hour of your time, of which you wasted hundreds of hours doing the exact same thing just because you like doing it :ROFLMAO: .

Complaining that someone else has the double-engineered DSS that you can't get is like complaining that they have an overpowered, one of a kind magnifying glass that allows them to count the balls of couscous on their plate 3% faster than you...
🤯
The idea of the probe limit was to introduce challenge to mapping worlds, there's a monetary reward attached to succesfully mapping a world in the probe count, it's got nothing to do with how long it takes. I have never failed to scan in under the limit on my main account although I haven't worried to much on my Alpha account, I do have an engineered DSS though so it's pretty easy. If it is made so easy you can never fail then they may as well remove the mini-game altogether and just make mapping bodies use one probe because now there's no point in requiring multiple probes. They should also remove the monetary bonus as well since everyone can get it with no effort.
What exactly is your point here? That all pointless activities should be removed?

How about this - get rid of the DSS entirely. I mean not from the game, from your ship. You will still travel the galaxy and discover all the beautiful (virtual) places there are to be discovered, you simply won't get your name slapped on the planet under "first scanned" and you will not get a few million credits per system.
Note that by not bothering to DSS you also save time on SC, which (across hundreds of systems and planets therein, many of which on secondary stars, hundreds of thousands of Ls away) amounts to quite a bit. I would argue that if you take the time you saved on not bothering to DSS and spend it on doing pretty much anything instead (mining, passenger missions, whatever) you will end up having more money in comparable time. Significantly more money.

You DSS because you want to achieve something and it is the investment of time and effort that makes it an achievement, while crying that somebody else can shave a few seconds off the same non-competitive activity is just being jealous ;)
 
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while crying that somebody else can shave a few seconds off the same non-competitive activity is just being jealous

This is not productive.

Limited edition items targeted for the subset of the playerbase that can't come back to the bubble on a moment's notice because FD does not announce weekly events in advance is simply bad game design.
 
This is not productive.

Limited edition items targeted for the subset of the playerbase that can't come back to the bubble on a moment's notice because FD does not announce weekly events in advance is simply bad game design.
With that I totally agree :) . That's the reason why I am hesitant to leave too far from the bubble.

To clarify - I don't have the dreaded OP DSS and I don't give a damn. I wasn't around when it was given away, しょうがない, life goes on. But I don't intend to miss out on anything I can put my hands on ;)
 
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