Utility Slot Missiles

[DemiserofD]

For some builds, specifically the ones that don't stack large amounts of shields, you can end up with excess utility slots to spare and little to use them on. More than 2 point defense is generally useless, ECM is generally useless, more than 2 chaff isn't worth having, and heat sinks are of relatively low utility for any build that doesn't run hot or use exorbitant amounts of power.

At the same time, seeker missiles are generally only used for utility purposes; IE, for drag munitions, or for 1-5 shots to kill external modules.

Which gave me a great idea! Why not introduce a line of independent missile types that go into utility slots instead of standard hardpoints?

These could have reduced overall ammo totals compared to dedicated hardpoints, serving as utility boosters rather than as outright dps.

Here's a few examples of possibilities:

Tarpit Missile(12 missiles per utility slot) - Deals 50 damage, and activates the Drag Munitions effect. (basically a C0.5 homing missile)

Havoc Missile(3 missiles per utility slot) - Briefly(3-6s) disrupts the engines of anything within its large(~500m) splash radius, sending them tumbling helplessly. Does thermal damage.

Imp Missile(5 missiles per hardpoint) - An anti-shield missile; does some thermal damage, and for 10 seconds after hitting its target, the target is forced to behave as if it has zero pips to shields.

Screamer Missile(30 missiles per hardpoint) - A pod of 30 dumbfire semi-automatic missiles. Fire as fast as you can press the button, dealing 30 damage each.

 

[Captain Willard]

Except they are utility slots, not hard points.
Yes I'm being difficult.

 

[here_it_comes]

I really like that you really want under-performing weapons to be useful, but the issue isn't the weapons specifically. It's the totality of ED ship combat mechanics . . . and shield bloat. MASSIVE SHIELD BLOAT.

 

[varonica]

Except they are utility slots, not hard points.
Yes I'm being difficult.

Does that mean I can use all my hard points as utility slots since I'm not using them as weapons? Also, can I put limpet controllers in them, that way I can have have multiple limpet controllers and depending on what fire group I have active I can use a different limpet controller!

 

[DemiserofD]

I really like that you really want under-performing weapons to be useful, but the issue isn't the weapons specifically. It's the totality of ED ship combat mechanics . . . and shield bloat. MASSIVE SHIELD BLOAT.

Well, the Imp missiles would help with that!

And the presence of an effect like that would drive players to bring anti missile defenses, meaning less boosters, meaning less shield bloat across the board! Win/win!

 

[here_it_comes]

I do like the idea of a Drag-like effect for Shields.

 

[Chrystoph]

Except they are utility slots, not hard points.
Yes I'm being difficult.

Actually, you aren't; hardpoints are called Hard points because they are the locations in the ship's framework that have been reinforced to address the stresses of weapon fire. The suggestion made by the OP would literally rip holes in the ship because the Utility slots are Not designed to deal with those stresses.

Real World example: a 25mm Auto-Cannon generates 10,000# of recoil per round. A piston in the gun absorbs 3,000# and the other 7,000# are transferred to the gun mount. Think about what would happen if that force were not properly absorbed. The same is true of missles.

 

[EvoBeardy]

Well, the Imp missiles would help with that!

And the presence of an effect like that would drive players to bring anti missile defenses, meaning less boosters, meaning less shield bloat across the board! Win/win!

Unless you're a ganker in a Corvette and you've just made someone slow down to a crawl whilst they're spiralling out of control, with no shield regen and 180dps (for a total of 900) x4 assuming one heatsink, which is 720dps (assuming 6 clicks per second) for a total of 3600 damage in 5 seconds without even firing an actual weapon.
Even if you were limited to a single one of these each per ship, doesn't that all seem a little OP with the effects?
And again you'd be putting the smaller ships even further away from their larger counterparts (and ships with less than 6-8 utility slots) than they already are. Unless of course you used all four utility slots against larger ships. However you stipulate "excess utility slots", and mostly the larger ships (aside from FDL/Mamba) will typically be in this scenario, larger ships can easily mount a PDT or two and not have a problem against these, essentially furthering the ship disparity and usage cases.

Maybe just have a tractor beam in one utility which emits a frequency that allows all subsequent hits to penetrate the shield with 0 resistance and another utility with a Piledriver tipped in enzyme so you can just hold the target still and pummel it.

In all seriousness, and I'm all for ideas which open up versatility, even if not stacking shields in your build, is there any reason you don't put low rated boosters in and build resistances without compromising regen too much?

As above, the drag-like effect for shields does seem like a cool idea though.

Speaking of which, the Clipper needs an extra 1 or 2 Utility slots and a Huge Hardpoint.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Which gave me a great idea!

Basically power creep.

Not a great idea.

 

[DemiserofD]

Actually, you aren't; hardpoints are called Hard points because they are the locations in the ship's framework that have been reinforced to address the stresses of weapon fire. The suggestion made by the OP would literally rip holes in the ship because the Utility slots are Not designed to deal with those stresses.

Real World example: a 25mm Auto-Cannon generates 10,000# of recoil per round. A piston in the gun absorbs 3,000# and the other 7,000# are transferred to the gun mount. Think about what would happen if that force were not properly absorbed. The same is true of missles.

Sure, but many missiles by design don't put any stress on the vehicle they're attached to. They have an open back end of the launcher, like a bazooka. If a person can hold and launch a rocket, so can a big honking spaceship!

In fact, that's arguably the biggest benefit of a rocket. It doesn't require the reinforcement or overbuilt structure of a cannon.

 

[Northpin]

Missiles in utility slots?
I'm already picturing a T10 with reverb cascade torpedoes in all hardpoints and a mix of seekers and dumbfires in the utility slots

 

[DemiserofD]

Unless you're a ganker in a Corvette and you've just made someone slow down to a crawl whilst they're spiralling out of control, with no shield regen and 180dps (for a total of 900) x4 assuming one heatsink, which is 720dps (assuming 6 clicks per second) for a total of 3600 damage in 5 seconds without even firing an actual weapon.

To be fair, it's not like you can't achieve those numbers already with frag builds and the like. Only those builds don't run out of ammo in 5 seconds. Utility missiles would remain firmly in the realm of utiltiies, if only because of the ammo limits.

 

[Ethaidan]

So, is this a regularly scheduled recycling of your previous missile suggestion? Which suggestion will you be recycling next?

 

[DemiserofD]

So, is this a regularly scheduled recycling of your previous missile suggestion? Which suggestion will you be recycling next?

Whichever one seems most topical

To be fair, I do refine and enhance the ideas with each iteration!

 

[here_it_comes]

I'm already picturing a T10 with reverb cascade torpedoes in all hardpoints and a mix of seekers and dumbfires in the utility slots

I approve.

 

[Chrystoph]

Sure, but many missiles by design don't put any stress on the vehicle they're attached to. They have an open back end of the launcher, like a bazooka. If a person can hold and launch a rocket, so can a big honking spaceship!

In fact, that's arguably the biggest benefit of a rocket. It doesn't require the reinforcement or overbuilt structure of a cannon.

Trust me, there is still recoil from a shoulder mounted rocket, but I take your point.

If it is nothing but a fixed mount with a Light AntiTank Weapon (LAW) rocket attached, sure, I could see using the mechanism. I would point out that such a weapon would be more effective against Odyssey than Horizons.

If, on the other hand, you want something with tracking, you're back to a Mounting point that isn't designed for a weapon of any significant size. I say that to preclude mention of the Point Defense installations, which are not anti-shipping weaponry.

Bluntly, even "paper ships" shields are capable of absorbing MegaWatt laser hits a time or two, and, unless you want to apply "magic limpet" bypass of the shields, Utility mounts shouldn't be able to support a missle capable of being effective in anti-shipping combat.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Does that mean I can use all my hard points as utility slots since I'm not using them as weapons? Also, can I put limpet controllers in them, that way I can have have multiple limpet controllers and depending on what fire group I have active I can use a different limpet controller!

With heavy armor and hull reinforcment modules can I porcupine my entire ship with lasers? But I need to add an extra power plant in an unused Internal slot. And an extra power distributor might be good too.

 

[DemiserofD]

If, on the other hand, you want something with tracking, you're back to a Mounting point that isn't designed for a weapon of any significant size. I say that to preclude mention of the Point Defense installations, which are not anti-shipping weaponry.

Actually, the tracking really shouldn't be any more cost prohibitive. Most modern dogfighting missiles have the tracking entirely encased within the missile itself, and the missile itself is ejected from the jet briefly before launching, meaning the total strain placed on the aircraft is functionally zero.

 

[Fake Newts]

heat sinks are of relatively low utility for any build that doesn't run hot or use exorbitant amounts of power.

Showing a startling unawareness of how useful heatsinks are here: they zero gimbal cones down to nothing if they don't drop you from the radar entirely, they break missile locks and make them impossible to reaquire for the duration, they provide a buff to your WEP capacitor allowing you to fire for longer. They are pretty much the most universally effective countermeasure, whereas chaff and PD are hard counters to one thing each (and the latter not even particularly effective at that). The only reason not to take them is because you can only carry 4 per launcher, whereas a single chaff launcher will last a lot longer. If you have 'spare' utility slots though, absolutely take heatsinks.

 

[Chrystoph]

Actually, the tracking really shouldn't be any more cost prohibitive. Most modern dogfighting missiles have the tracking entirely encased within the missile itself, and the missile itself is ejected from the jet briefly before launching, meaning the total strain placed on the aircraft is functionally zero.

With the caveat that you are referring to, after launch, I agree with you. However, I was referring to tracking while still on the pylon. Specifically, the idea that the weapon would be an addition to a tracking platform. The nearest example already in the game would be a Wake Scanner or Kill Warrant Scanner, but with a weapon hanging off of it.

I would also point out that the combat environments are not synonymous because you are comparing fighter technology to "ships" that measure equivalent to actual warships. The proper comparison should not be an aircraft mounted Air to Air missile, but, rather, a cruise missile such as a Harpoon.