A potentially great game ruined by spite, incompetence and mediocre performance and poor AA

[Zinegata]

Don't like Odyssey? As for a refund.. it is the only thing that gets the message across to Frontier that they should try harder.

People are already having trouble getting a refund.

How to refund Odyssey DLC ? :: Elite Dangerous General Discussions

I made the mistake of pre-ordering Odyssey (yeah, i know.... stupid move, lesson learnt) I tried playing the game and the game doesn't start. Horizons works perfectly. Odyssey crashes. I want a refund. I asked 3 times now and it was denied because I played 733.25 hours. That is over 30 days...

steamcommunity.com

People are up in arms not because they're entitled gamers. They're up in arms because some literally can't run the game based on the specs released one day before launch. These are not minor pet peeve issues. They are "I can't play the game period" issues.

The people in denial that this launch is a dumpster fire, frankly, are acting like Ponzi Scheme victims. Contrary to what you'd think, con victims don't get mad at the person who stole from them. Instead, they try to hide the fact they were conned and continue to cling to the illusion of success and being part of a "great" deal / game. That's why there are so many "Haha, I can run the game, you can't" posturing posts.

They know for a fact they didn't get a great product. But admitting that is too embarrassing so they try to pretend it's the greatest thing ever instead.

That this mentality is so prevalent in many Elite discussions should frankly inform people on what kind of marketing campaign Fdev was running.

 

[Lone_star]

People are already having trouble getting a refund.

How to refund Odyssey DLC ? :: Elite Dangerous General Discussions

I made the mistake of pre-ordering Odyssey (yeah, i know.... stupid move, lesson learnt) I tried playing the game and the game doesn't start. Horizons works perfectly. Odyssey crashes. I want a refund. I asked 3 times now and it was denied because I played 733.25 hours. That is over 30 days...

steamcommunity.com

People are up in arms not because they're entitled gamers. They're up in arms because some literally can't run the game based on the specs released one day before launch. These are not minor pet peeve issues. They are "I can't play the game period" issues.

The people in denial that this launch is a dumpster fire, frankly, are acting like Ponzi Scheme victims. Contrary to what you'd think, con victims don't get mad at the person who stole from them. Instead, they try to hide the fact they were conned and continue to cling to the illusion of success and being part of a "great" deal / game. That's why there are so many "Haha, I can run the game, you can't" posturing posts.

They know for a fact they didn't get a great product. But admitting that is too embarrassing so they try to pretend it's the greatest thing ever instead.

That this mentality is so prevalent in many Elite discussions should frankly inform people on what kind of marketing campaign Fdev was running.

Yeah, I mean idea that expecting a good product that actually works makes one "entitled" is so absurd. Gaming culture is so weird - I do not understand why so many gamers basically thank companies for feeding them poop sandwiches.

 

[INSTG8R]

Don't like Odyssey? As for a refund.. it is the only thing that gets the message across to Frontier that they should try harder.

Personally I did not even buy it yet.. because I am not impressed by the FPS aspect of it (I've played FPS games since Duke 3D.. so I don't need yet another one).

I was a bit sad Horizons is not getting the new planetary tech, new lightning and new UI ... but ... after seeing all the complaints here on this forum. I am HAPPY that Horizons is staying as it is. If anything, I hope it stays like that forever.. or until Odyssey fixes all its issues.

Some of bought it directly from Frontier back in back in 2014 and don“t have the Steam refund policy to lean on. I bought this from Frontier in February, shame on me but I’m stuck with it and I’m playing it despite its issues that I will continue to be vocal about.

 

[FightingFirst]

Personally I think it shows a disregard for the community to release the game in this state. What is worse it shows a disregard as well for the devs that made this game, who have put in the hours and will want a good finished product to reflect their effort and hard work. Upper management is squarely where the blame rests here unless there has been some massive communication problem in the company which I think is unlikely. This game is no where near release ready. Of the missions I did yesterday near half bugged out and I had to abandon. These ranged from not being able to land on planet and get out to no more enemies spawning but the mission said I needed to kill 0/0 enemies but wouldn't let me complete the mission. Then we get onto performance too. It is unacceptable to release a game in this state. We have paid good money for this and should expect the game in a good state. If the Upper management had any respect for either their dev team and their customers they would apologise for this management error and take steps to ensure this does not happen again.

 

[TheChosen]

I've noticed it is mostly a 'modern gaming' trend. I've been playing games since the arcades in the 80s .. and if you released a bugged/broken game back then, you would be out of business pretty soon.

Eventually , it is the fault of the players. They pay for non-working games as long as they get an 'early access pass'. Then they pay for a bugged/broken game at full release. Sure , some complain but at the end of the day the developer makes a LOT of money. And who in the world is going to stop doing something if it keeps being profitable?

This won't stop anytime soon until the players themselves stop buying unfinished products.

Elite is my all time favourite game (I've been playing it since Commodore 64) .. but no .. I will not support this practice. When FDEV puts forward an optimized, bug free, working game.. sure.. I will happily buy it even if I don't enjoy the FPS aspect of it. I'd rather buy ARX for Horizons now than Odyssey.

 

[Cervantes01]

It doesn't excuse anything - but it does explain it.

Nothing will change whilst people continue to purchase and pre-order games which are half-finished, contain gambling mechanics, and other such nonsense. And that behaviour isn't showing any signs of changing - at all.



It is when people keep buying and pre-ordering them.


When you run a publicly-traded company, you have to deliver on your promises to your shareholders first and foremost. Otherwise, you`ll find you've lost control of your company, and your personal fortune has nosedived.

You can't deliver publicly to your shareholders by releasing bad products, unless you want those shareholders to wind up on the bones of their arses skint along with your own personal fortunes nosediving. Short term gains can often equal long term pain when next years share price dives because less people are buying your products because you've damaged your own brand. That's usually the point when directors and chairmen get replaced.

 

[Cervantes01]

I've noticed it is mostly a 'modern gaming' trend. I've been playing games since the arcades in the 80s .. and if you released a bugged/broken game back then, you would be out of business pretty soon.

Eventually , it is the fault of the players. They pay for non-working games as long as they get an 'early access pass'. Then they pay for a bugged/broken game at full release. Sure , some complain but at the end of the day the developer makes a LOT of money. And who in the world is going to stop doing something if it keeps being profitable?

This won't stop anytime soon until the players themselves stop buying unfinished products.

Elite is my all time favourite game (I've been playing it since Commodore 64) .. but no .. I will not support this practice. When FDEV puts forward an optimized, bug free, working game.. sure.. I will happily buy it even if I don't enjoy the FPS aspect of it. I'd rather buy ARX for Horizons now than Odyssey.

You don't buy smaller potatoes from the greengrocer that promised you big ones and then didn't deliver. You shop somewhere else instead.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

Then why don't you learn, and stop pre-ordering and playing on release? This cycle won't stop until we as customers put a stop to it. Unfortunately, people are sooo keen to part with their money on a wild goose chase, that is not going to happen. Look at Scam Citizen if you need examples. As for CP it wasn't that bad as people made it out to be, played 50 hrs of it before I got bored with it. I will return to it sometime, maybe. It was simply overhyped - and this is exactly what is happening here. Odyssey was overhyped and underdelivered. I'd say a standard release, consistent with the track record. When I look back at my 5-years-younger self who was overjoyed when Horizons released... I could save myself so much disappointment and lost hope

I didn't preorder anything. I'm a console player, and I can at least thank the PC folk for their head start of picking apart the technical issue of this beta release. As for CP2077, see my prior post on what that game did to CDPR's stock, reputation, and profit. It was as bad as people made it out to be. Probably the worst launch of a game in the last decade.

I'll never fault people for doing what they want to do with their own money. However, it is not above the realm of imagination to want a release of a game that asks you to pay money for it, and releases in an unoptimized, almost unplayable extremely buggy state. Watching Obsidian Ant's latest video you could tell that he was trying very hard to be polite about the state of the game currently, and could barely find any positives other than hoping things will be fixed faster than FDev's usual patch speed when it comes to bugs. And there's a lot of bugs. A lot.

IMO, downplaying the issues right now is worse than being angry at people who preorder a game expecting it to, you know, actually work as advertised. Sometimes outrage is needed to light a fire under the management of these games, but downplaying it cuts the voice of the gamers that want to inflict enough negativity to push for change in the product they buy. You say this release is consistent with their past offerings, but point your finger at your fellow gamers rather than the million dollar company asking you to fork over another $40 for a game that has microtransactions, and that's happy with delivering the sad status quo because half their fanbase thinks is this fine and the other half doesn't.

It's mind boggling.

 

[Techmonkey]

We feel $40 is too much for a product hundreds of people worked on for two years,

Usually before spending money for any product I make my decision on how good the product is and if it's functional and finished. I don't give a damn how long and how many people it took to make it. It's the concern of the manufacturer / developer not mine.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Usually before spending money for any product I make my decision on how good the product is and if it's functional and finished. I don't give a damn how long and how many people it took to make it. It's the concern of the manufacturer / developer not mine.

As you notice it ultimately is your concern, whether you 'give a damn' or not. It's a cool sound byte, but at some point gamers are going to have to accept less or give more. You may not care about reality, but it's still there.

 

[fus roh potato]

You don't buy smaller potatoes from the greengrocer that promised you big ones and then didn't deliver. You shop somewhere else instead.

If anyone sells you small potatoes after promising big ones, you hurl them back at their face at 90 kph do you understand

 

[Techmonkey]

As you notice it ultimately is your concern, whether you 'give a damn' or not. It's a cool sound byte, but at some point gamers are going to have to accept less or give more. You may not care about reality, but it's still there.

Are you talking about the reality CD Project had to experience?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Are you talking about the reality CD Project had to experience?

Yes, I am sure they greatly lament earning the most money on a game release ever. It has to be difficult, wondering in which of your five new yachts not to care about what a bunch of angry nerds yell on the internet. We sure showed them whats what!

 

[TheChosen]

You don't buy smaller potatoes from the greengrocer that promised you big ones and then didn't deliver. You shop somewhere else instead.

Except.. gamers just don't that.. They happily bought Cyberpunk 2077 and now they bought Odyssey .. then they'll buy something else again.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Except.. gamers just don't that.. They happily bought Cyberpunk 2077 and now they bought Odyssey .. then they'll buy something else again.

Heck, even witcher 3 is back in the Steam top seller lists, together with CP2077.

 

[Linnunrata]

Gaming culture is so weird - I do not understand why so many gamers basically thank companies for feeding them poop sandwiches.

Agreed, I mean, poor service is poor service and it deserves to be called out. Though gaming culture is certainly also a culture of extremes considering how often you can see individuals making a life mission to crap on some product instead of just walking away.

 

[Techmonkey]

Well they will need all the money for the law suits coming their way.

 

[Linnunrata]

Yes, I am sure they greatly lament earning the most money on a game release ever.

I think it is still factual that especially the console release debacle wasn't good PR nor sound business decision in the long run. Though it is absolutely correct that CDPR banked a lot from CP2077 and their reputation won't be forever tainted by the mess (I'm sure their next game will sell very well as well), I feel like it is something that they can afford because they are industry heavy weights.

 

[Lone_star]

People bought Cyberpunk because CD project (deservedly) has a great reputation. The Witcher 3 is one of the best computer games ever made. It would easily be a finalist for the best game of the last 10 years.

We'll see how much Cyberpunk tarnishes their reputation. If they follow through on supporting it well post release they'll probably be mostly fine.

 

[Techmonkey]

Agreed, I mean, poor service is poor service and it deserves to be called out. Though gaming culture is certainly also a culture of extremes considering how often you can see individuals making a life mission to crap on some product instead of just walking away.

It's not gaming, it's the internet giving people a way to voice their opinion. Before that it was the pub where people used to crap on car brands now you have forums and social media