Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

sovapid

sovapid
Surefoot said:
Here you start off wrong. "give" is not the correct term. "rent" maybe ? "give access to the pre-alpha" would also be more complete.. and again I'm not a lawyer, and the TOS are full of traps that are much more vicious. (edit) moreover there are plenty of mentions that virtual items and even virtual money that are sold through their store are still the complete property of CiG and they can do whatever they want with them. They definitely do not "give" them to you.


If one day (I hope for you it doesnt happen but who knows) you have to defend yourself in a court of justice: DO NOT USE YOUR COMMON SENSE. Hire a lawyer. Really.
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Like all modern software, you never "own" star citizen. CIG grants you a license.

2nd sentence of the EULA.

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In the case of CIG, this is the license.

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Mole HD

Mole HD
Coloratura said:
I'd have to say yes and no on that one. If when you first paid into the game, there was no specific statement on what happened to your digital goods except that they were yours, and then several updates later there's a new EULA that says "we don't owe you anything, and everything you gave us is now a donation retroactively," if you don't click accept, you essentially forfeit your money anyway because you either don't play the game as a result, or you click accept so you can play the game and lose your digital goods anyway. So you might as well take it in front of a legal representative since they'll have strong armed you into giving them money for nothing.
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I wrote my pledge off before I got my credit card out of my wallet, especially after successfully refunding my first account...same way as I wrote my donation off to Zero-G with Hellion. Ci¬G aren't responsible stewards of funding, especially not the idiot Roberts...as Darkfyre mentioned quite profoundly. If I ever had to suffer the unfortunate displeasure of ever shaking hands with the man, I'd be counting my fingers after it.

I'm in the fortunate position that If I were too concerned about chucking that relatively small amount of disposable income away... should genuine Roberts run off to some offshore tax haven with it to buy a Freelancer shaped glass of Marguerita with lemon, I'd have kept my wallet shut. As long as you're more than aware of the negatives or possible outcomes concerning Ci¬G or Star Citizen...it doesn't present an issue.
 
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Red Martian

Red Martian
Mole HD said:
I wrote my pledge off before I got my credit card out of my wallet, especially after successfully refunding my first account...same way as I wrote my donation off to Zero-G with Hellion. Ci¬G aren't responsible stewards of funding, especially not the idiot Roberts...as Darkfyre mentioned quite profoundly. If I ever had the unfortunate displeasure of ever shaking hands with the man, I'd be counting my fingers after it.

I'm in the fortunate position that If I were too concerned about chucking that relatively small amount of disposable income away... should genuine Roberts run off to some offshore tax haven with it to buy a Freelancer shaped glass of Marguerita with lemon, I'd have kept my wallet shut.
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Oh, I agree, it's why I haven't spent a dime in a long while and plan on continuing not to do so. Especially after finding this out about ships being permanently lost which everyone on the SC forum is like "everybody knows that!" and "it's been dang clear since 2012!" (it has been neither of these because CIG is a master of dubious wording).

I love how people in the forum there are like "you have to have insurance when you buy a house," and it's like, folks, houses are real, you have to use real world assets to build them. A digital commodity doesn't require real upkeep, does not require anything other than a button press or line of code to make it last forever in-game.

It's that at this point, I wouldn't put it past CIG to have a monthly insurance subscription, because otherwise placing fake insurance on real money ships should be seen as the absurdly stupid thing it is, and getting the people in that forum to realize that (some do, and are also fighting a prevailingly oblivious crowd) is an exercise in futility.

Edit to add:
Honestly, I just want new subs to know exactly what they're getting into, because when I started playing in 2018, I did not know any of this, and it was not made clear by CIG, because I do read things, and I think CIG knows that the more vague they make their TOS/EULA, the more money they can skim off without consequence.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Mole HD said:
Ci¬G have already won a small claims law suit on exactly that basis...probably more than one, we'll never know. Once they shut the door on refunds in 2017, the constantly changing and evolving EULA...the latest one I posted a screenshot of a few pages back...will be yet another legal loophole butt-covering maneuver. Ci¬G are protecting their bases every step of the way...after all, they've now got investors on board who have sunk a few bob into Chris Roberts' online marketing venture... who'll also be making sure they're not going to lose it all to some random muppet with some Legal Aid lawyer petitioning a small claims court because they're annoyed at losing a pixel spaceship or two :)
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Ah, but the main difference is CIG are a company with lots of money and have lawyers, whereas Intrepid 3D is presumably not so rich and not a corporation.

One rule for them, another rule for the rest of us.
 

Xink

Xink
The odds of CIG actually going through with permanently disabling access to a bought for real cash ship if it gets blown up are very very low.

One, it would open them up to potential litigation and two, they'd have a PR manure storm that will hurt them financially. They'll likely just make it a super long recovery time for ships you paid real money for.

In game currency ships are completely lost, no doubt bout that. Eve does the same.

Edit: EULAs are very legally binding, though. You pay for license to use, not ownership. Yes, it has been tested in court many times by very large companies - Microsoft, to name one. The EULA cannot take away or contradict legal rights though.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
sovapid said:
CIG "won" the small claims court case against the firefly guy because the EULA mandates arbitration, not a court case.

And they didnt really "win", court said it was the wrong venue for the claim. firefly never followed up with an arbitration claim.
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As I recall, the time and place of arbitration is set by CIG as well... so good luck if you don't live anywhere near where they want to do it. Although maybe online arbitration is allowed.

Also good luck if you live outside the US, since i'm sure that complicates matters further.
 

Dementropy

Dementropy
Xink said:
The odds of CIG actually going through with permanently disabling access to a bought for real cash ship if it gets blown up are very very low.

One, it would open them up to potential litigation and two, they'd have a PR manure storm that will hurt them financially. They'll likely just make it a super long recovery time for ships you paid real money for.

In game currency ships are completely lost, no doubt bout that. Eve does the same.

Edit: EULAs are very legally binding, though. You pay for license to use, not ownership. Yes, it has been tested in court many times by very large companies - Microsoft, to name one. The EULA cannot take away or contradict legal rights though.
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I think you are grossly underestimating the emergent gameplay of insurance assessors who will investigate whether or not a jpeg is worthy of replacement, outside of the terms of LTI purchases.
 

kilvenny

kilvenny
I am very confused, it's been clear for years that if your purchased with real money (you paid vat) ship does not have LTI and its destroyed you lose it. That's what LTI covers. I could never understand why anyone would buy a ship without LTI for that reason, other than to have an unflyable JPEG collection for their hangar.

I have been looking forward for years to when Sovapid glitches into someone's hangar and destroys their vintage collection once and for all.
 

Xink

Xink
🤣🤣 Yeah, that's what they've said.

But CIG are not stupid (when it comes to making money). They're not going to hurt them selves financially by causing paid for real cash ships to disappear, for whatever reason.

Why would anyone pay $200+ for a ship that when it gets blown up it goes poof? Imagine having it blown up by a bug.. They'll just make it annoying when it does, they love doing that.
 
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