Powerplay List of desired powerplay features.

[DemiserofD]

Fleet carriers make it easier to attack if you know they are there (setting up scouting nicely). Once they turn up, you have large vessels that need to fly outside the influence of an FC, then spool up, then jump. Having to do that is ideal for Groms, Ion Mines etc.

Connection granted, but its if the majority get this. If it works for enough people then job done, because part of the fun is having to anticipate trouble (and thus the need / gamble in ship loadout). Couple that with uncapped UM , for the majority (unless everything is really borked) it should be enough to foster those situations.

So while I do see network drawbacks, I don't agree with the rest.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say about connections, but given my connection with other players is consistently terrible, I don't think anyone else would have any difficulty achieving the same status. And if you can consistently prevent yourself from instancing with other players, then all other considerations are moot. Which I can, so they are.

You must recognize that any system that relies on consistent instancing simply will not and cannot work in this game.

The only way to provide risk is to put people in harms way.

There's no point in putting people in harm's way if it makes no difference. You're speaking of applying NPCs unilaterally across all modes, which would have a net impact of zero. It would effect all players equally, so it would make absolutely zero difference on any level.

I can't see why we'd bother wasting dev time on a feature that doesn't actually change anything.

To be clear, I have no outright problems with it other than it being a waste of time, but...I also think it would be a waste of time. So...yeah. Who cares about risk? I certainly don't. That's got nothing to do with winning the powerplay game, it's no more interesting than the physical process of picking up a chess piece and putting it down somewhere else.

The issue is you have powers who have the best passive bonuses pushed all over, and those powers also have money making bonuses that are exploited for the wrong reasons. ALD, Hudson, LYR. Those need to stop really. And since most powers will never see use of the 123 bonuses, why have them? Why not make 123 bonuses depend on position? At least then they'll see use.

I can definitely agree with this, but personally I think the best solution is just making them active for players regardless of galactic rank. None of them are so powerful they break the game.

Practically, I think the best reward for galactic ranking would actually be one-time rewards. Every four months, you could give the top 3 Powers permanent bonuses of some sort, whether they be credits or modules or something else. Then players actually care about their galactic rank, because it actually matters in the short term, and not just as a giant e-peen measuring contest. It makes it into a game you can 'win'.

People don't want abstract or game design that shoe horns something like a tournament (when you already have CQC) into proxy shadow wars like Powerplay.

It really doesn't matter what people want. What matters is what's feasible and possible and will work.

Any system that relies on consistent instancing will not work. Ever.

By contrast, an elo-based system absolutely can and will work, as demonstrated by many other games.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say about connections, but given my connection with other players is consistently terrible, I don't think anyone else would have any difficulty achieving the same status. And if you can consistently prevent yourself from instancing with other players, then all other considerations are moot. Which I can, so they are.

You must recognize that any system that relies on consistent instancing simply will not and cannot work in this game.

For you they might be bad- but its if the majority of players can get a connection that matters. I'm talking about people who just play, and I don't presume everyone is going to cheat or fiddle with things.

You also forget its about the fact its the situation and who you find, for most people that works out just fine.

There's no point in putting people in harm's way if it makes no difference. You're speaking of applying NPCs unilaterally across all modes, which would have a net impact of zero. It would effect all players equally, so it would make absolutely zero difference on any level.

I can't see why we'd bother wasting dev time on a feature that doesn't actually change anything.

To be clear, I have no outright problems with it other than it being a waste of time, but...I also think it would be a waste of time. So...yeah. Who cares about risk? I certainly don't. That's got nothing to do with winning the powerplay game, it's no more interesting than the physical process of picking up a chess piece and putting it down somewhere else.

Erm...it makes a game if NPCs act as a constant in the background, and that they force you to make choices rather than simply making it a dull FedEx mode, which Powerplay is.

If the low level gameplay (i.e. the stuff you do the most) is dull, who is going to play that? All the high level plans in the world translate into you and your fellow pledges doing it- if that part is boring then they won't do it. ED is a game about piloting skill and judgement in the end.

I can definitely agree with this, but personally I think the best solution is just making them active for players regardless of galactic rank. None of them are so powerful they break the game.

Practically, I think the best reward for galactic ranking would actually be one-time rewards. Every four months, you could give the top 3 Powers permanent bonuses of some sort, whether they be credits or modules or something else. Then players actually care about their galactic rank, because it actually matters in the short term, and not just as a giant e-peen measuring contest. It makes it into a game you can 'win'.

Although it sounds good, I don't think ultra long term bonuses are a good idea based on the top 3, mainly as people will go for the top 3 powers and not bother with the bottom powers (hence why the % based on position).

It really doesn't matter what people want. What matters is what's feasible and possible and will work.

Any system that relies on consistent instancing will not work. Ever.

By contrast, an elo-based system absolutely can and will work, as demonstrated by many other games.

Well it does, because they'll be the ones deciding to play it or not.

And if it works for the majority then it works well enough- which fits what FD envisioned with how the maths works.

As far as ELO, its the simplicity of saying- OK, you need to exist and work in this space between varying powers. You may come across other players or powerful NPCs. That fits exactly into what Powerplay is, which is your supporting a Power either through hauling / defending or attacking others.

It goes back to the PvE layer- get that right and the need for Open (and players being stand in NPCs) lessens. But FD have to be bold here and make it worthwhile, fun and require skills. Just making a delivery sim is the exact opposite.

 

[DemiserofD]

For you they might be bad- but its if the majority of players can get a connection that matters. I'm talking about people who just play, and I don't presume everyone is going to cheat or fiddle with things.

Sure, it's fine for now. But right now, Powerplay is irrelevant and filled with roleplayers, not powergamers. But should Powerplay ever become relevant, for example by giving it more potent bonuses or a more impactful sway on the universe, then you'll quickly get far more players like that, and at that point, the game will be dominated by whichever Power has the most players who can play uninterrupted. Some powers may just happen to live far away or have bad internet and have a natural advantage, which in turn would pressure other powers to emulate their strength, until eventually, inevitably, everyone's avoiding everyone else all over again.

And because there's essentially no way to actually check whether or not a poor connection is legitimate or not, it's not a fixable scenario.

Erm...it makes a game if NPCs act as a constant in the background, and that they force you to make choices rather than simply making it a dull FedEx mode, which Powerplay is.

This I can definitely agree with. Perhaps I just disagree with the idea for how they'd be implemented. To me, adding NPCs universally is just boring and pointless because it essentially removes the human part of the equation that's supposed to be most important in Powerplay.

I guess my point is, the hauling merits system works. It's not great, and it's not pretty, but it's player-moved, and does the job of working as a competition simulator. I'd absolutely be for making it more fun and engaging, but it's always gotta try to keep the player action on the forefront.

I could be down for some sort of system where the presence of Powerplay players in a system gradually increases the strength of the powerplay NPCs there. Maybe have it work similarly to how ranks work, so it takes exponentially more time to reach elite compared to even halfway to elite. So you'd basically be encouraging your players to fly around to all the different systems in the Power and just do an hour or two of missions in each one, and thereby drive up the local NPC strength enough to make things challenging for your enemies. In systems with a much larger presence, you'd automatically have dozens of players active, so all the NPCs would quickly get propelled to Elite rank(and difficulty) in short order, and stay there so long as the fight went on.

Although it sounds good, I don't think ultra long term bonuses are a good idea based on the top 3, mainly as people will go for the top 3 powers and not bother with the bottom powers (hence why the % based on position).

You could make the bonuses be a flat amount that gets subdivided among all the players in the Power. That way smaller powers are more encouraged to go for the top 3, and players will tend to join ascendant powers rather than ones that are already full and at the top.

Well it does, because they'll be the ones deciding to play it or not.

And if it works for the majority then it works well enough- which fits what FD envisioned with how the maths works.

As far as ELO, its the simplicity of saying- OK, you need to exist and work in this space between varying powers. You may come across other players or powerful NPCs. That fits exactly into what Powerplay is, which is your supporting a Power either through hauling / defending or attacking others.

It goes back to the PvE layer- get that right and the need for Open (and players being stand in NPCs) lessens. But FD have to be bold here and make it worthwhile, fun and require skills. Just making a delivery sim is the exact opposite.

Simplicity isn't always a good thing. The current model, while simple, actively discourages actual pvp on just about every level. The haulers run from the defenders, the defenders run from the attackers, and the attackers really don't even want to kill the defenders, just keep them away from the haulers.

That's just fine for a small part of the game, but for the entirety of powerplay, I find it quite strange that there's essentially no integration for actual fair pvp. I'll agree that it's technically unnecessary - pvp has been irrelevant for almost a decade and it probably wouldn't particularly hurt anything if it stayed irrelevant for a decade more - but some players really want to have a meaningful reason to kill one another, and this would provide that reason.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Sure, it's fine for now. But right now, Powerplay is irrelevant and filled with roleplayers, not powergamers. But should Powerplay ever become relevant, for example by giving it more potent bonuses or a more impactful sway on the universe, then you'll quickly get far more players like that, and at that point, the game will be dominated by whichever Power has the most players who can play uninterrupted. Some powers may just happen to live far away or have bad internet and have a natural advantage, which in turn would pressure other powers to emulate their strength, until eventually, inevitably, everyone's avoiding everyone else all over again.

And because there's essentially no way to actually check whether or not a poor connection is legitimate or not, it's not a fixable scenario.

Its filled with people who play Powerplay- not roleplayers. You have to play it to get it to work, regardless. The only real roleplaying I've seen in Powerplay is when Utopia started prepping and expanding places for 'reasons'- like Maia, Takurura, Jaques. But in doing so you compromise your power (although in one case its a sound strategic move).

And a lot of powers (or at least the ones I've known) have a broad mix of player locales so it evens itself out. Its not like a power is one power per continent, and that they play to an objective (pretty much the end of the cycle).

This I can definitely agree with. Perhaps I just disagree with the idea for how they'd be implemented. To me, adding NPCs universally is just boring and pointless because it essentially removes the human part of the equation that's supposed to be most important in Powerplay.

I guess my point is, the hauling merits system works. It's not great, and it's not pretty, but it's player-moved, and does the job of working as a competition simulator. I'd absolutely be for making it more fun and engaging, but it's always gotta try to keep the player action on the forefront.

I could be down for some sort of system where the presence of Powerplay players in a system gradually increases the strength of the powerplay NPCs there. Maybe have it work similarly to how ranks work, so it takes exponentially more time to reach elite compared to even halfway to elite. So you'd basically be encouraging your players to fly around to all the different systems in the Power and just do an hour or two of missions in each one, and thereby drive up the local NPC strength enough to make things challenging for your enemies. In systems with a much larger presence, you'd automatically have dozens of players active, so all the NPCs would quickly get propelled to Elite rank(and difficulty) in short order, and stay there so long as the fight went on.

The choice is either players being NPCs, or NPCs being players. Hauling merits should work because people and NPCs are there to stop you and provide obstacles for you to overcome.

To get NPCs at that level, you have to utilise the parts of the game that have that risk- navs, SC, away from stations etc. In that PvE thread I posted earlier it does this by copying missions and pricing in danger- the more you move, the more NPCs are after you and the harder they are. If you do it this way you invert PvP and then its a group of you V some angry NPCs and other players when they come along.

The drawback to your method is that spawns are set to certain quotas and I'm not sure if they can be tweaked (other than with NPC potency).

You could make the bonuses be a flat amount that gets subdivided among all the players in the Power. That way smaller powers are more encouraged to go for the top 3, and players will tend to join ascendant powers rather than ones that are already full and at the top.

Thats a good idea, as long as 5C was in check (which is doable) and rampant expansion was decoupled from something like CC (mainly as people might expand regardless to be #1 when expansion has to be done carefully). The danger will always be people playing for the trinket (which in itself is not bad, as long as that play is guided down the 'right' path).

Simplicity isn't always a good thing. The current model, while simple, actively discourages actual pvp on just about every level. The haulers run from the defenders, the defenders run from the attackers, and the attackers really don't even want to kill the defenders, just keep them away from the haulers.

That's just fine for a small part of the game, but for the entirety of powerplay, I find it quite strange that there's essentially no integration for actual fair pvp. I'll agree that it's technically unnecessary - pvp has been irrelevant for almost a decade and it probably wouldn't particularly hurt anything if it stayed irrelevant for a decade more - but some players really want to have a meaningful reason to kill one another, and this would provide that reason.

No one wants PvP like that, because its staged and forced. We are not talking PvP as in 1:1 stuff (as in CQC) but actual co-ordinated actions that require swing roles, punching through obstacles etc. This is what the NPCs should be emulating but can't, and that players can do- setting up these situations to happen. Uncapped UM, unified fortification direction, lower BGS footprint- all making more places where friction is going to occur.

 

[DemiserofD]

No one wants PvP like that, because its staged and forced. We are not talking PvP as in 1:1 stuff (as in CQC) but actual co-ordinated actions that require swing roles, punching through obstacles etc. This is what the NPCs should be emulating but can't, and that players can do- setting up these situations to happen. Uncapped UM, unified fortification direction, lower BGS footprint- all making more places where friction is going to occur.

Again, it doesn't really matter what players want, if what they want is technically impossible.

In any situation where players are fighting over meaningful rewards, they will use any means at their disposal to win, and Elite's connection architecture makes this impossible to prevent. You're essentially relying on the good morals of the people involved, but that's going to let you down every time. The fact bots have been consistently complained about for quite some time should be more than enough evidence of this.

If the choice is between this form of pvp or nothing, which would you rather have? Because that's the choice you've got, like it or not.

 

[Arkadi]

Wait, what?! Who said powerplay would gain some dev-attention?

I. can't. believe.

Really? This' some elaborate hoax, isn't it?

Maybe they'll change some pixles on the UI some time, but some real development going into it? Did someone really mention something like it? Don't give me false hopes please!

 

[Half-Lock]

All the bonuses need work (most are useless these days, like ammo costs), but the idea of 123 bonuses is poor if most powers will never use them. To make Powerplay really tempting, they have to be near universal and offer something nice.

I'm not sure what you mean by universal, but lets honest: For the most part (even with myself, who makes use of the PP for my Inara logs and follows Galnet like its Space House of Cards), there's one ranking per Power and its III. The other sets of bonuses are so specific to the BGS that anyone that isn't in one of the big squadron-houses that they're relatively negligible.

I'm not denying it wouldn't be possible for me to settle on a faction for my squadron (which wouldn't make any sense for what I'm doing and is a hypothetical, at best) and pick up possibly 2 other CMDRs and we might start swinging the BGS in our direction, but at the end of the day, the PP bonuses are linked to the BGS which is designed in a way that makes the 6 billion people in a specific system matter- in the sense that your relationship to the power and its benefits to you is directly tied to the numbers your bringing to the table.

As much as that essentially limits my ability to make use of the Powers and the benefits I'd derive, due to my gaming choices, it is still my choice to do something specific and accept the challenges inherent. I've always found the BGS/PP to be as interesting as they are and haven't viewed any increase or decrease in incentives or disincentives to be something that would really make BGS/PP more interesting.

It's either an interesting aspect of the game for its strategic and coordination-driven requirements- which was discussed earlier in the post, and carries with it a variety of possible improvements to keep such work in-house- or its a Module mini-game, which is how I've seen it often used.

Without a robust PvE layer in Powerplay it has.....nothing. The BGS player factions work because that is driven by the whole game (missions and activities). Powerplay is driven by whatever happens between you picking up PP cargo or getting a merit. Its this empty time that is one of Powerplays major problems- you can take off, SC and land in total safety because the game is erroneously set that way, and NPCs can do nothing to stop you. Its this repetitive boredom where nothing changes that makes Powerplay a job you do then play the game, rather than you playing Powerplay itself.

As I covered in the previous paragraphs, I happen to think there is a robust PvE layer. The PP/BGS relationship is sort of inherent to the way the game is put together and, just like in the real-world of political intrigue- which is what the PP layer is simulating- the numbers (BGS aggregates) are effected by and affect the PP and the resulting PvE-NPC layer. There's a comment below that will pick up on this.

Practically, I think the best reward for galactic ranking would actually be one-time rewards. Every four months, you could give the top 3 Powers permanent bonuses of some sort, whether they be credits or modules or something else. Then players actually care about their galactic rank, because it actually matters in the short term, and not just as a giant e-peen measuring contest

Not a bad idea at all

Although it sounds good, I don't think ultra long term bonuses are a good idea based on the top 3, mainly as people will go for the top 3 powers and not bother with the bottom powers (hence why the % based on position).

Not a bad counter-argument

If the low level gameplay (i.e. the stuff you do the most) is dull, who is going to play that? All the high level plans in the world translate into you and your fellow pledges doing it- if that part is boring then they won't do it. ED is a game about piloting skill and judgement in the end.

I don't know if I agree with this entirely; low-level gameplay (ie mission running and grind) is kinda dull- Every video game in history that has a grind-factor runs that risk. The reason I put up with the dull is because when I get bored I can jump to the next thing I want to be doing in my space-ship, which is why I play Elite Dangerous. The game isn't billed as an action game, but there are definitely ways to improve those sequences when that is what you want and, in my contingently final opinion, all the current game-features are built in the same way.

It goes back to the PvE layer- get that right and the need for Open (and players being stand in NPCs) lessens. But FD have to be bold here and make it worthwhile, fun and require skills. Just making a delivery sim is the exact opposite.

I don't know if either of you are PC players and what the massive body of PC players are doing when it comes to group/solo/open play, but I generally play in Open and in PS4, with occasional pokes back into my original PC/Mac account, which is only generally capable of exploration and the occasional interaction in un-crowded space. I think your suggestion that the PP is a bit of a delivery-sim is fair, to a certain extent. It's the mini-game (the equivalent of FFVII's Chocobo breeding and races) for Aisling pledges; I'm pretty sure the Hudson guys have to chase people around and then submit bounties.

If your suggestion is that FDEV should up the ante when it comes to the strategic AI of NPCs, rather than backing it down, I wouldn't be against that. Again, with my intentional foot-binding of my current relationship with the game and the subsequently small BGS/PP footprint, it would inherently make my experience more difficult, but that's the type of thing that I create within the space due to my decisions in-game.

Powerplay is irrelevant and filled with roleplayers, not powergamers. But should Powerplay ever become relevant, for example by giving it more potent bonuses or a more impactful sway on the universe, then you'll quickly get far more players like that, and at that point, the game will be dominated by whichever Power has the most players who can play uninterrupted. Some powers may just happen to live far away or have bad internet and have a natural advantage, which in turn would pressure other powers to emulate their strength, until eventually, inevitably, everyone's avoiding everyone else all over again.

This argument is starting to resemble the "All politics is local politics" argument that gets bandied about whenever politics dudes begin to rail against overemphasis on national politics. It's a bit of a sluggish mechanic; there are like 600,000,000,000 citizens in the galaxy or something right, and 9 people at the heads of the galactic-political contest? The challenge of PP, within game, wouldn't be particularly interesting if every single pilot could run 15 missions and take down Arissa. Best, and most hilarious, example of the PP/BGS/CMDR relevance I can think of is when one of the PP-RPers playing Hadrian saw his name on GALNET as a potential terrorist. I mentioned in a previous post that the idea that individual CMDRs relationships with the rest of the community and NPC AI could be effected by their skill level and decisions would be an interesting late-game function; I think I said something to the effect of implementing statistical thresholds on kills or something that would immediately shift the NPCs to a different level or something.

I could be down for some sort of system where the presence of Powerplay players in a system gradually increases the strength of the powerplay NPCs there. Maybe have it work similarly to how ranks work, so it takes exponentially more time to reach elite compared to even halfway to elite. So you'd basically be encouraging your players to fly around to all the different systems in the Power and just do an hour or two of missions in each one, and thereby drive up the local NPC strength enough to make things challenging for your enemies. In systems with a much larger presence, you'd automatically have dozens of players active, so all the NPCs would quickly get propelled to Elite rank(and difficulty) in short order, and stay there so long as the fight went on.

I thought that's how it does work.

You could make the bonuses be a flat amount that gets subdivided among all the players in the Power. That way smaller powers are more encouraged to go for the top 3, and players will tend to join ascendant powers rather than ones that are already full and at the top.

I don't necessarily think that the bonuses themselves have to be changed- again, they're deeply entwined in the BGS mechanics, which is the point- but a new layer of reward tiers distributed in that way, where the pilots pledged to larger powers have smaller distributions of the rewards could definitely produce an interesting set of decisions for pilots.

That's just fine for a small part of the game, but for the entirety of powerplay, I find it quite strange that there's essentially no integration for actual fair pvp. I'll agree that it's technically unnecessary - pvp has been irrelevant for almost a decade and it probably wouldn't particularly hurt anything if it stayed irrelevant for a decade more - but some players really want to have a meaningful reason to kill one another, and this would provide that reason.

Again, the PvP integration within the Powerplay has never not been an available function. I've been told by numerous pilots that they make the decision to play in group or solo mode to avoid the PvP and that's sort of their own deal with their own game. It sort of is what it is. There's been some chatter about overweighting the PP/BGS that occurs in the open being a bit of a remedy to what some people see as an abnormality in the way the system works but its sort of a six-to-half-a-dozen situation: If people don't enjoy getting ganked and griefed and the PvP players are just deciding to gank and grief everybody then either ED loses players to the dreaded rage-quit or they scarf down the donuts and get as fat as the PvP guys are forcing everyone to be, which is just a bit of an overweighting of the PvP community and- to walk it into the politics simulation of the PP- requiring of another set of mechanics to prevent that overweighting from becoming the sole mode of play in a 600,000,000,000 person galaxy.

I don't think FDEVs failed to appropriately balance the availability of PvP as a tool within the PP/BGS system.

No one wants PvP like that, because its staged and forced. We are not talking PvP as in 1:1 stuff (as in CQC) but actual co-ordinated actions that require swing roles, punching through obstacles etc. This is what the NPCs should be emulating but can't, and that players can do- setting up these situations to happen. Uncapped UM, unified fortification direction, lower BGS footprint- all making more places where friction is going to occur.

I think that would be a great addition to the NPC AI, to be perfectly honest. The wolf-packing is already present, but for FDEV to peek in and steal some of the techniques used by the PvP squadrons and wings for use in AI wouldn't be a horrible idea.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Again, it doesn't really matter what players want, if what they want is technically impossible.

In any situation where players are fighting over meaningful rewards, they will use any means at their disposal to win, and Elite's connection architecture makes this impossible to prevent. You're essentially relying on the good morals of the people involved, but that's going to let you down every time. The fact bots have been consistently complained about for quite some time should be more than enough evidence of this.

If the choice is between this form of pvp or nothing, which would you rather have? Because that's the choice you've got, like it or not.

I'd rather have what I described because from playing that exact game in Open its great. The times in open when these things have happened were the best for me, have that all the time (or have mode specific parts of Powerplay)? Game on. The very worst Powerplay can be is identical hauling runs with nothing happening.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm not sure what you mean by universal, but lets honest: For the most part (even with myself, who makes use of the PP for my Inara logs and follows Galnet like its Space House of Cards), there's one ranking per Power and its III. The other sets of bonuses are so specific to the BGS that anyone that isn't in one of the big squadron-houses that they're relatively negligible.

What I mean is, for the most part (bar some flavour) the bonuses are shared between powers- some powers (like Denton, Mahon) have near useless bonuses (rares price increase, reduced ammo costs) while others have really excellent ones (LYR doubling data income, Archon Delaine negates fines and bounties). What is needed is a set of common bonuses instead, based on position (or some other means) and use gameplay (such as themed PP missions) act as the differentiator.

As I covered in the previous paragraphs, I happen to think there is a robust PvE layer. The PP/BGS relationship is sort of inherent to the way the game is put together and, just like in the real-world of political intrigue- which is what the PP layer is simulating- the numbers (BGS aggregates) are effected by and affect the PP and the resulting PvE-NPC layer. There's a comment below that will pick up on this.

The layer I'm referring to is the Powerplay NPC layer and what it does. Currently its not very much, since you are swimming through it day in, day out. Territory at a ship level is meaningless, NPCs are too timid and stations provide too much safety. This is the problem, and why one approach was to have it in Open. For me, I'd prefer Open and Solo have jobs for each that don't cross over but dovetail, that, or / and change the PvE to actually fit the clandestine nature (and occasional war).



I mean- this seed of an idea I was doodling is more in fitting with a proxy war, and making Powerplay an open BGS conterpart to the mode agnostic BGS.

-----------

This idea makes Powerplay a feature about clandestine warfare that occasionally results in brutal fighting. It uses mechanics from station repair, bits of Powerplay, CGs and the general game. All enemies are the hardest NPCs can be (aside from ATR) and each run is risky.

To gain territory:

There is no CC like today, or control / exploited bubbles. A system is one 'unit' of play (i.e. all systems are control systems).

You have to smuggle in a set amount of weapons and people to enable a coup (of sorts), in a similar way to repairing stations and the requirements there.

You sell these items to the Powerplay contact (modelled after the CG contact) for a higher price than normal or take passengers (mercs and security officers).

The requirement gets higher the closer you get to another powers borders, population levels and infrastructure (stations).

Once this is achieved, on the next tick that territory is your powers.

'New' untouched systems that have had no Powerplay presence have no Powerplay NPCs flying about. Once you 'take' a system Powerplay NPCs will spawn in SC, NAVs etc and will be logistics ships you can pirate (carrying valuable cargoes!). Doing so lowers the powers hold (see below). You will also have G5 Powerplay spec ops roving about which attack all rival pledges on sight.

To take territory:

The mercs / sec who were transported in form a contingent you must remove, to do so-

Transport in saboteurs. One saboteur eliminates two defending mercs. Because this system is 'owned' by a rival, it contains patrolling top end Powerplay NPCs who kill on sight.

Pirate logistics ships.

The defender can bring in more support, but once the level of defenders drops below half the threshold the powers presence there becomes unstable.

The next tick that system generates multiple CZs in system (based on which rival power did the most sabotage- no hiding!), where NPCs rove about and the attacker has to drive the defenders defences down to 0% (i.e. the remaining 50%). Attackers can smuggle in saboteurs, kill directly or pirate. Defenders can transport in security, fight off rival NPCs.

G5 Spec Ops Powerplay ships are everywhere and are angry

If the defender loses, that system goes 'neutral' and all Powerplay NPCs are removed.

Rewards:

Rewards are reworked:

Only pledges can benefit from bonuses- so no passives for non pledges such as bounty hunting or lower ship costs.

Rebuys are free if another pledge or NPC destroys you.

Unique modules are available to buy direct from capitals. So if you pledge, you have be careful to smuggle yourself into rivals territory to get more.

---

This system has no 5C possible, because no expansion is 'bad'. You have to play for your team rather than be in the team you want to take down.

Powers can be driven back to their Capital (like player BGS factions)

 

[Arkadi]

What I mean is, for the most part (bar some flavour) the bonuses are shared between powers- some powers (like Denton, Mahon) have near useless bonuses (rares price increase, reduced ammo costs) while others have really excellent ones (LYR doubling data income, Archon Delaine negates fines and bounties). What is needed is a set of common bonuses instead, based on position (or some other means) and use gameplay (such as themed PP missions) act as the differentiator.


The layer I'm referring to is the Powerplay NPC layer and what it does. Currently its not very much, since you are swimming through it day in, day out. Territory at a ship level is meaningless, NPCs are too timid and stations provide too much safety. This is the problem, and why one approach was to have it in Open. For me, I'd prefer Open and Solo have jobs for each that don't cross over but dovetail, that, or / and change the PvE to actually fit the clandestine nature (and occasional war).



I mean- this seed of an idea I was doodling is more in fitting with a proxy war, and making Powerplay an open BGS conterpart to the mode agnostic BGS.

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This idea makes Powerplay a feature about clandestine warfare that occasionally results in brutal fighting. It uses mechanics from station repair, bits of Powerplay, CGs and the general game. All enemies are the hardest NPCs can be (aside from ATR) and each run is risky.

To gain territory:

There is no CC like today, or control / exploited bubbles. A system is one 'unit' of play (i.e. all systems are control systems).

You have to smuggle in a set amount of weapons and people to enable a coup (of sorts), in a similar way to repairing stations and the requirements there.

You sell these items to the Powerplay contact (modelled after the CG contact) for a higher price than normal or take passengers (mercs and security officers).

The requirement gets higher the closer you get to another powers borders, population levels and infrastructure (stations).

Once this is achieved, on the next tick that territory is your powers.

'New' untouched systems that have had no Powerplay presence have no Powerplay NPCs flying about. Once you 'take' a system Powerplay NPCs will spawn in SC, NAVs etc and will be logistics ships you can pirate (carrying valuable cargoes!). Doing so lowers the powers hold (see below). You will also have G5 Powerplay spec ops roving about which attack all rival pledges on sight.

To take territory:

The mercs / sec who were transported in form a contingent you must remove, to do so-

Transport in saboteurs. One saboteur eliminates two defending mercs. Because this system is 'owned' by a rival, it contains patrolling top end Powerplay NPCs who kill on sight.

Pirate logistics ships.

The defender can bring in more support, but once the level of defenders drops below half the threshold the powers presence there becomes unstable.

The next tick that system generates multiple CZs in system (based on which rival power did the most sabotage- no hiding!), where NPCs rove about and the attacker has to drive the defenders defences down to 0% (i.e. the remaining 50%). Attackers can smuggle in saboteurs, kill directly or pirate. Defenders can transport in security, fight off rival NPCs.

G5 Spec Ops Powerplay ships are everywhere and are angry

If the defender loses, that system goes 'neutral' and all Powerplay NPCs are removed.

Rewards:

Rewards are reworked:

Only pledges can benefit from bonuses- so no passives for non pledges such as bounty hunting or lower ship costs.

Rebuys are free if another pledge or NPC destroys you.

Unique modules are available to buy direct from capitals. So if you pledge, you have be careful to smuggle yourself into rivals territory to get more.

---

This system has no 5C possible, because no expansion is 'bad'. You have to play for your team rather than be in the team you want to take down.

Powers can be driven back to their Capital (like player BGS factions)

I just browesed this and hell yes! I would instantly pledge and play!

I really hope some (or all) of these ideas make it to Frontier Developers eyes! I eagerly would jump any hype-train towards this destination!!!

So, where can one subscribe to the Rubbernuke fanclub channel???

On a side-note, I have not the time and mood to think through all of the possible irks an quirks that might stand in the way of an implementation of your ideas, right now. But I really really appreciate the direction your ideas are going and on first glance it all seems not to complicated to implement too, since it uses mostly existing gameplay features. Great stuff bro. Great stuff.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I just browesed this and hell yes! I would instantly pledge and play!

I really hope some (or all) of these ideas make it to Frontier Developers eyes! I eagerly would jump any hype-train towards this destination!!!

So, where can one subscribe to the Rubbernuke fanclub channel???

On a side-note, I don't care to deep-think all of the possible irks an quirks that might stand in the way of an implementation of your ideas. But I really really appreciate the direction your ideas are going!

I'm glad it sounds fun. Its only really a seed of an idea at the minute, but it could in theory generate the PvP being discussed here in unique zones when violence kicks off.

The other great thing is that all Powers behave the same, in that there are no hauling expansions or combat expansions, and that fort direction is meaningless.

And since everything is hyper local and decentralised, you can fight your corner anywhere you like, and 5C can't mess it up.

 

[Arkadi]

[...]

Unique modules are available to buy direct from capitals. So if you pledge, you have be careful to smuggle yourself into rivals territory to get more.
[...]

Now imagine if Frontier would care to design the Odyssey Station Lobbys adequatly to the powers, what massive improvement to the immersion in the game-world could be gained.

Imagine a Station-Lobby in Federal or Imperial HQs or at Archons place, this could be done in a very interesting way, with NPC people done in the right way, so a player can really experience and see the different cultural backgrounds the elite-universe offers. I mean there sure are ways to depict the sleek and eloquent Imperial nobility and theire servants or the business-like Federal or even more so Sirius HQ's or the gang-bangers haven of Archon stations or the cultist like guys over at space hippy Antal HQ : )

And your idea would give good reason for many pilots to visit and enjoy those stations!

 

[Rubbernuke]

Now imagine if Frontier would care to design the Odyssey Station Lobbys adequatly to the powers, what massive improvement to the immersion in the game-world could be gained.

Imagine a Station-Lobby in Federal or Imperial HQs or at Archons place, this could be done in a very interesting way, with NPC people done in the right way, so a player can really experience and see the different cultural backgrounds the elite-universe offers. I mean there sure are ways to depict the sleek and eloquent Imperial nobility and theire servants or the business-like Federal or even more so Sirius HQ's or the gang-bangers haven of Archon stations or the cultist like guys over at space hippy Antal HQ : )

And your idea would give good reason for many pilots to visit and enjoy those stations!

Unique modules are available to buy direct from capitals. So if you pledge, you have be careful to smuggle yourself into rivals territory to get more.

As an aside these would be available from the black market / barkeeper guy- so while you can get them they are hard to get to the place that sells them (and cost more).

I'm not sure if non pledged people can get access- maybe different prices perhaps.

 

[Arkadi]

If Frontier only wanted, they could generate tons of gameplay around the superpowers. But as it stands, I hold my expectations very low. Just look at the navy-ranks and the nonexistent gameplay around that.

Still there always is hope.

A redesign of powerplay would be a great possibility for Frontier to catch up on missed opportunitys.

I wonder how Frontier will go about integrating Odyssey content into powerplay (assumed they really want to go into a redesign). Should they use the full potential with Odyssey in mind or should they limit themselves to Horizon gameplay so everybody can participate fully???

I would say give Powerplay all the game has to offer, accepting that a part of the playerbase (without Odyssey) will be shut off from full participation...

 

[Rubbernuke]

If Frontier only wanted, they could generate tons of gameplay around the superpowers. But as it stands, I hold my expectations very low. Just look at the navy-ranks and the nonexistent gameplay around that.

Still there always is hope.

A redesign of powerplay would be a great possiblity for Frontier to catch up on missed opportunitys.

I wonder how Frontier will go about integrating Odyssey content into powerplay (assumed they really want to go into a redesign). Should they use the full potential with Odyssey in mind or should they limit themselves to Horizon gameplay so everybody can participate fully???

I would say give Powerplay all the game has to offer, accepting that a part of the playerbase (without Odyssey) will be shut off from full participation...

It depends really. The idea outline above makes Powerplay behave like BGS expansions in that each one has no real value other than it being an extra system. So, to count who is 'best' you then tot up how many people you have under your sway perhaps.

To me powers are really groups who rally to a Power leaders ideals- so in a way they are large paramilitary groups.

 

[Arkadi]

It depends really. The idea outline above makes Powerplay behave like BGS expansions in that each one has no real value other than it being an extra system. So, to count who is 'best' you then tot up how many people you have under your sway perhaps.

To me powers are really groups who rally to a Power leaders ideals- so in a way they are large paramilitary groups.

Yes, maybe it would be better for the game to do away with the territorial map and make it like you are suggesting. This way it would be more in line with BGS gameplay (but still seperate) and it would totally make sense in the way the Elite galaxy is being described up to now.

I really see you point here.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yes, maybe it would be better for the game to do away with the territorial map and make it like you are suggesting. This way it would be more in line with BGS gameplay (but still seperate) and it would totally make sense in the way the Elite galaxy is being described up to now.

I really see you point here.

It also takes the expansion / retreat aspect from the BGS and makes more of it too- so in some ways Powers can then collapse totally back to a capiral if pushed enough.

 

[Arkadi]

It also takes the expansion / retreat aspect from the BGS and makes more of it too- so in some ways Powers can then collapse totally back to a capiral if pushed enough.

Yes, that's a good aspect too. If the power shrinks too much, it could be increasingly hard to get those power modules too but on the other hand if power play missions would be integrated they could become ever more lucrative the more desperate the power becomes.

Also I would think it could be reasonable to integrate Navy Ranks into powerplay. So that missions to rank up in the navy are only available in systems where the power has control.
And maybe (just a quick thought) getting some reputation with the power could also help to raise a bit of navy reputation and vice verse?

Also maybe Frontier could finally get over theire shadow and design handcrafted mission-scenarios to increase the pilots rank in the navy as well as the pilots rank in his pledged power. Frontier showed that they can do such things, when they did the Interstellar Initiatives. So why don't they do it for integral step-stones in the gameflow of theire game I really wonder...

edit:
and if Frontier should worry, how commanders who already are king and admiral can access new missions, well, that ain't hard, they could accept shared missions with "younger" pilots and help them out, and they could replay those missions in the tutorial screen...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Without the ability for new powers to be dynamically created through player efforts (on factions for example) and for powers to fail, all you're discussing is different mechanics to continue a never ending game of risk.

In that case, i'd rather see PP removed from the game entirely, because there is zero point to it otherwise.

 

[Danieros]

Without the ability for new powers to be dynamically created through player efforts (on factions for example) and for powers to fail, all you're discussing is different mechanics to continue a never ending game of risk.

In that case, i'd rather see PP removed from the game entirely, because there is zero point to it otherwise.

A native faction can't be retreated from its home system so it can't ever truly die. Is there zero point to the BGS because of it?

Nope. It's just a community layer to the game, like PP, that folks can team up to tackle, different from personal progress that come from your equipment, credits, ships, etc which eventually get "done".