I'm seeing a big old spread of behaviours amongst the 'refugees' on reddit. Both returnees and newbies. Plenty rocking Auroras or the odd Mustang. Plenty opting for the $84 Titan starter pack instead, or quickly moving onto it. (With a few then ironically advising other noobs that 'all you need is an Aurora' )
A smaller bunch heading into the $100-$300 range with stuff like Cutlass Blacks, Freelancers, Connies etc. And a few jumping straight into big pledges or the grey market and shooting past $500 almost immediately.
Probably quite representative of current backers
Yep can totally believe it. (Plenty on reddit talking about bumping into guys they recognise from ED in-game in SC too. o7s abounding )
I think most of the recent ED/SC crossovers are more surprised that there were some of us there already...as well as being given a warm and friendly welcome from SC players in general. For some reason, most of them thought it was reddit instead of just a game with spaceships
If the population isn't that huge then any new influx bumping into each other, or being an obvious addition to the whole, wouldn't be that unusual either.
Indeed, precisely my point. Without knowing those concurrency figures is hard to conclude anything clearly either way, but if the figures were low to start with, and both CR figures and anecdotal observation on this thread support that, it would not be too hard for just a handful of ED players to make a “difference”. People bumping into other known players accidentally as often as suggested here does not bode well either for a “massive” influx scenario.
I see. I noticed that SC is using Amazons Lumberyard engine ( Which is also used by New World - but the difference between games graphics is enormess for some reason). On the wiki page they had this statement:
" On July 6, 2021, Amazon announced it was partnering with the Linux Foundation to form the Open 3D Foundation and would be releasing a new version of Lumberyard, rebranded as Open 3D Engine (O3DE), under the Apache 2.0 open source license"
What does this means for Star Citizen? Another engine change in the future?
Indeed, precisely my point. Without knowing those concurrency figures is hard to conclude anything clearly either way, but if the figures were low to start with, and both CR figures and anecdotal observation on this thread support that, it would not be too hard for just a handful of ED players to make a “difference”. People bumping into other known players accidentally as often as suggested here does not bode well either for a “massive” influx scenario.
It's not like the annual migration of Wildebeest on the Serengeti or anything, most of the recent additions are still playing EDO as well as dipping their toes into SC whilst they await a few improvements, most, from what I've seen and heard, have healthy views on both games.
None of this is a bad thing for either game, neither is it indicative of a form of FDev induced mass hysteria...nothing startling at all except for being brought on by anything more than curiosity. A few have mentioned the reason for giving SC a try-out was to see exactly what having ship interiors add to the gameplay if anything at all.
I see. I noticed that SC is using Amazons Lumberyard engine ( Which is also used by New World - but the difference between games graphics is enormess for some reason). On the wiki page they had this statement:
" On July 6, 2021, Amazon announced it was partnering with the Linux Foundation to form the Open 3D Foundation and would be releasing a new version of Lumberyard, rebranded as Open 3D Engine (O3DE), under the Apache 2.0 open source license"
What does this means for Star Citizen? Another engine change in the future?
Indeed, precisely my point. Without knowing those concurrency figures is hard to conclude anything clearly, but if the figures were low to start with, and both CR figures and anecdotal observation on this thread support that, it would not be too hard for just a handful of ED players to make a “difference”.
Quick, someone photoshop CR's head onto a wildebeest!
Funny you said that, because its common name of the wildebeest is the Gnu. And as we all know, GNU means GNU's not Unix (a recursive acronym) which is what Linux is based on (most Linux type distros are still based on GNU), which really kicked off the whole open software movement, which brings us to the Open 3D Foundantion, to Lumberyard to Amazon to CIG!
I see. I noticed that SC is using Amazons Lumberyard engine ( Which is also used by New World - but the difference between games graphics is enormess for some reason). On the wiki page they had this statement:
" On July 6, 2021, Amazon announced it was partnering with the Linux Foundation to form the Open 3D Foundation and would be releasing a new version of Lumberyard, rebranded as Open 3D Engine (O3DE), under the Apache 2.0 open source license"
What does this means for Star Citizen? Another engine change in the future?
No, SC never actually switched to LY. A very, very brief summary is this: CIG licensed CryEngine 3 from CryTek. Due to various reasons, the license they got was limiting them and they couldnt, or wouldn't, pay for an upgraded license. Meanwhile Amazon also got a license for CryEngine 3, which Amazon called Lumberyard, AND the right to 'sub-license' the engine to third parties. So CIG seized the opportunity and 'signed for Amazon', and called it 'Star Engine'. In effect it didn't really mean anything in a technical sense, it just means they switched from the CE3 license to Amazon's version of the same license. The deal was 'kinda legit', but also not fully, and after a protracted legal case CIG paid CryTek an additional sum for the permanent CryEngine 3 license.
All legal stuff aside, Star Citizen runs on CryEngine 3, and not on any further developed version by Amazon or others. None of the CryEngine 4 or 5 tech is available to CIG.
No, SC never actually switched to LY. A very, very brief summary is this: CIG licensed CryEngine 3 from CryTek. Due to various reasons, the license they got was limiting them and they couldnt, or wouldn't, pay for an upgraded license. Meanwhile Amazon also got a license for CryEngine 3, which Amazon called Lumberyard, AND the right to 'sub-license' the engine to third parties. So CIG seized the opportunity and 'signed for Amazon', and called it 'Star Engine'. In effect it didn't really mean anything in a technical sense, it just means they switched from the CE3 license to Amazon's version of the same license. The deal was 'kinda legit', but also not fully, and after a protracted legal case CIG paid CryTek an additional sum for the permanent CryEngine 3 license.
All legal stuff aside, Star Citizen runs on CryEngine 3, and not on any further developed version by Amazon or others.
No, SC never actually switched to LY. A very, very brief summary is this: CIG licensed CryEngine 3 from CryTek. Due to various reasons, the license they got was limiting them and they couldnt, or wouldn't, pay for an upgraded license. Meanwhile Amazon also got a license for CryEngine 3, which Amazon called Lumberyard, AND the right to 'sub-license' the engine to third parties. So CIG seized the opportunity and 'signed for Amazon', and called it 'Star Engine'. In effect it didn't really mean anything in a technical sense, it just means they switched from the CE3 license to Amazon's version of the same license. The deal was 'kinda legit', but also not fully, and after a protracted legal case CIG paid CryTek an additional sum for the permanent CryEngine 3 license.
All legal stuff aside, Star Citizen runs on CryEngine 3, and not on any further developed version by Amazon or others.
Just a minor correction. They were calling it Star Engine long before the CryTek case, and they stopped calling it that for a long time while the case was going on, possibly not to present the wrong image to the judge that they had effectively created their own engine or forked it and were trying to position it as a new engine (which they were kind of doing prior to that, talking often about how many changes they had made to the engine).
From what i've seen post-CryTek case they don't call it Star Engine any more, perhaps once i think i heard them say something like "... what we sometimes refer to as Star Engine..."
Another amusing thing is how some backers go on flights of fancy about how CIG will sell "their" engine to other game devs for them to make games with. I don't think these people understand licensing at all.
No, SC never actually switched to LY. A very, very brief summary is this: CIG licensed CryEngine 3 from CryTek. Due to various reasons, the license they got was limiting them and they couldnt, or wouldn't, pay for an upgraded license. Meanwhile Amazon also got a license for CryEngine 3, which Amazon called Lumberyard, AND the right to 'sub-license' the engine to third parties. So CIG seized the opportunity and 'signed for Amazon', and called it 'Star Engine'. In effect it didn't really mean anything in a technical sense, it just means they switched from the CE3 license to Amazon's version of the same license. The deal was 'kinda legit', but also not fully, and after a protracted legal case CIG paid CryTek an additional sum for the permanent CryEngine 3 license.
All legal stuff aside, Star Citizen runs on CryEngine 3, and not on any further developed version by Amazon or others. None of the CryEngine 4 or 5 tech is available to CIG.
No, they've put in things that the OG 3.7/8 branch of CE were NYI or not available. Lots of modern engines are just built off old (or sometimes extremely old) branches of engines and added on to over the years (see Source, Creation Engine, etc)
Doing this though takes a lot -- A LOT -- more time than if you just bought an engine that could do X. You have to crack open the codebase and when you start touching that stuff you can create really, really unforeseen issues with other parts of the code.
If you're going to do engine improvements, you usually get to a point where your content is in polishing (early beta) and the game has a solid ship date, and you look to your programmers and go "What can we improve on/does Unreal/CE/Unity/whatever have a new version" and you get your guys on those improvements for a year or so for the next game. You do this because the engine has been locked down and not futzed with, because if you decide to mess with core engine libraries while content is still being created, uh, you're going to lose a lot of manhours redoing a lot of content.
For example, CE multiplayer -- especially the way 3.7/8 handled it -- is really, really, really bad. Really. Really bad. And trying to fix that and all the places it steps on is going to take an extremely long time and cost a lot of money. Even then what you want it to do might not be possible.
At some point it takes more effort to update the old stuff than it would to create a new game from scratch. When you look at what Unreal Engine 5 offers it is insane compared to Star Citizen, all the 'Amazing Tech' they spend years on is pretty much build-in and much, much better. That is why games are normally in development for 2-4 years, give or take. The industry moves fast, imagine you would try to release a FPS on a modified Build 3D engine: its absurd. This is not a controversial thing, Chris Roberts himself said that Star Citizen should release in 2014 or 2015 or else things would get stale.
The only way to get a long-term development going is to 1) not overly rely on graphical quality, which is fleeting, and 2) use a Minimum Viable Product approach where the the game gets better in steps but is functional at all times. Examples are, for example, Paradox Interactive games, EvE, WoW and Elite Dangerous. Bethesda has been using their old engine for ages, because they rely on specific things and know how it works. Star Citizen's approach is a dead end, and everyone in the industry, including Chris Roberts, knows it.
At some point it takes more effort to update the old stuff than it would to create a new game from scratch. When you look at what Unreal Engine 5 offers it is insane compared to Star Citizen, all the 'Amazing Tech' they spend years on is pretty much build-in and much, much better. That is why games are normally in development for 2-4 years, give or take. The industry moves fast, imagine you would try to release a FPS on a modified Build 3D engine: its absurd. This is not a controversial thing, Chris Roberts himself said that Star Citizen should release in 2014 or 2015 or else things would get stale.
The only way to get a long-term development going is to 1) not overly rely on graphical quality, which is fleeting, and 2) use a Minimum Viable Product approach where the the game gets better in steps but is functional at all times. Examples are, for example, Paradox Interactive games, EvE, WoW and Elite Dangerous. Bethesda has been using their old engine for ages, because they rely on specific things and know how it works. Star Citizen's approach is a dead end, and everyone in the industry, including Chris Roberts, knows it.
So how many more years does SC has, before people will go: " Ah this just looks too old now "? Or is it more like " Well there is nothing else better left out there other than this two". - so it will keep going until a suitable replacement find its way on to the market?
And even then, they've slotted in a bunch of improvements that started with Morrowind. FO76, the latest game to use Creation Engine, adds a lot of fancy graphical upgrades vs FO4 or Skyrim.
FYI, visual effects are usually the easiest to implement in the engine - working on new functionality, for quests, movement or whatever, means a lot more time building tools, testing those tools, getting the tools into designers hands, getting feedback and then reiterating and improving those tools.
So how many more years does SC has, before people will go: " Ah this just looks too old now "? Or is it more like " Well there is nothing else better left out there other than this two". - so it will keep going until a suitable replacement find its way on to the market?
To me SC already looks pretty dated, especially compared to some stuff in the pipe for 2022/2023. Modern engine improvements to lighting, volumetric effects and textures are not just better looking with modern engines, they require less processing overhead and are tuned specifically for newer hardware (especially SSDs and multi core / threaded CPUs). So not only are games using UE5 going to look better, they will run better using the same hardware.
Probably new Elite players in SC are buying the basic pledges, and not whaling. Maybe also SC people who had played, jumped to Elite, and now returning to SC but arent buying anything, as they already own the game.
In both cases player numbers may be up, but historic money numbers are not.
I can assure people i do own Elite on both PC and Console, but are one of those tight Scottish types (Keith clan from Aberdeenshire apparently) so am just grinding away with in-game aUEC and not contributing to their coffers.
As for other Elite players, whenever i go into a server there are always "o7 new player here..." in global chat. Probably at least 2-4 asking stuff, presumably a few quiet ones, then a number of ex-Elite but experienced SC players. If i jump server it will be the same in the next server, and next one.
So i can fully believe SC's numbers have seen a boost since Odyssey.
There does seem to be quite a lot of defensive posts on Dangerous Discussion whenever SC comes up though, with an unwillingness to accept SC is in a better state than a few years ago, and an unwillingness to entertain an open mind to try. Some sort of tribalism or sunk-cost fallacy reflex? I'd like to think i'm very balanced in my views - not a hater or White Knight of Elite or SC - just a gamer looking at them from the gaming side.
Anyway i'm just grinding away and having fun in SC o7
or from the dining table, if bed isn't one's thing:
It's why i'm trying this ship and not the "better" versions, with more guns or cargo, as the living areas are much nicer (there's a skylight too), and you have windows to see outside. in space is great too, makes me wish i could have this ship and ship interiors on Distant Worlds 3...
There are also luxury liner type ships, but to me they seem excessively wasteful of space (600i especially) or too large to really fly solo. I'm quite liking this, have to see how pew-pew is, in theory has a SLF and SRV too - the salesman lied to me, as i thought the rover was standard, but it's not in the cargo bay.
That is some epic filthy-console-peasant being channeled in your pic BTW
To me SC already looks pretty dated, especially compared to some stuff in the pipe for 2022/2023. Modern engine improvements to lighting, volumetric effects and textures are not just better looking with modern engines, they require less processing overhead and are tuned specifically for newer hardware (especially SSDs and multi core / threaded CPUs). So not only are games using UE5 going to look better, they will run better using the same hardware.
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