7 months away, and I’m back for Odyssey… here’s my thoughts

[Red Rocket]

I have over 3000 hours in Elite using VR, I am so disappointed in Odyssey that I rarely play anymore.
But if I do get on for a bit it’s only in Horizons still using VR.

I love the planet tech in Horizons huge mountains you can climb, deep crevasses you can fly through.
After exploring Odyssey planet surfaces I still prefer Horizon planets look over Odyssey.

I still find Horizons planets more interesting.

 

[smiths121]

I tend to drop dumb fires at Scavengers, and run over them with ship or SRV.
Have shot a couple, but try to avoid dirtying my hands.

If I have to clear a base od scavengers, onto the roof, long range sniping.

I have done one combat zone, which rather found out my complete lack of skills in the FPS arena.

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

To be fair, I watched the original Armstrong moment

and it was black and white, grainy picture and not VR either. So perhaps FDev got it right after all.

No? Ok, I'll let myself out.

It wasn’t black and white and grainy to Neil Armstrong.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Ok so a little history.

I backed ED on Kickstarter and have played exclusively on VR for the last 4 years. I have an i7-7700k, 16gb ram, 1080Ti and Oculus Quest 2. I run settings generally set to High. HOTAS for flight and SRV, Voice Attack, and now Xbox game pad for walking.

I love this game more than any game I have ever played before. However, being uninspired and somewhat disillusioned by Odyssey and the direction the game was heading (even though I pre-ordered it), I haven’t played since it was released.
Until now…

After setting up all my bindings again (grrr!) and the new ones for legs, I put the Oculus on, and dived in.

My very first thought was, this is dark! Seems a lot darker than I remember and I am certainly using night vision more than I did before. I’m actually ok with this because it is outer space after all, but I can see why others aren’t keen. Graphics are definitely better in my opinion though, and seem sharper too.

No performance issues whilst flying apart from when I enter a mail slot, at which point the screen sticks a little until I get through. This happens every time in Odyssey. Not a game breaker, but it is a little jarring.

SRV is fine. No changes there, other than the improved planetary graphics. The atmospheres look very nice indeed. I like this! And the surfaces are improved too. Tidy.

Graphically, Odyssey has improved the game.

Now then, space legs. When I disembark and get the black screen (of course I want ship interiors, of course I want to walk down my ship steps…) my VR headset turns in to a flat cinema screen. This definitely takes the immersion away from space legs. I mean, it’s actually not that badly implemented, but I’m still disappointed. That “Armstrong moment” is just no good at all - black screen AND I lose VR… It feels like I’m starting a different game, that isn’t as good as Elite.

I have zero performance issues walking around stations, bases or combat zones. Everything runs fine, which actually surprised me a bit given the issues that I have seen reported by some other players. Happy enough with this.

I tried the First Person Shooter. Absolute pants! Really really terrible. It is basic and outdated. And copying the ship combat mechanics (lasers for shields and kinetics for body) and pasting in to an FPS is just plain stupid. Awful. Awful. Awful.

I have zero intention of playing ED’s FPS again. So there’s no point me grinding out engineering for suits or hand weapons. I am never going to do that, ever. The problem with this is, where does that leave me now? There’s not much for me to do on foot at all, and if Frontier’s focus is on this, which it seems to be, then they are taking a different direction to where I want to go…

I still enjoy flying my ship and using my newly acquired, and discounted, Fleet Carrier (perfect timing to save 1.5 billion. Very lucky lol). So I’m back to enjoying the game in itself, but the expansion (apart from the graphics) has been, for me, a complete waste of time and money. I know it’s a cliche, but it really does feel like a new game unnecessarily bolted on to Elite. Something I didn’t want that has been poorly implemented.

I would have preferred, and been willing to pay for, quality of life improvements instead. Powerplay, engineering, material gathering, NPC chit-chat (it’s STILL in the top 1% of all liners out there. I mean, lordy!!), better narrative that I can actually play rather than just read about, proper missions that follow on from each other to lead the player towards some kind of storyline, the Thargoid war (remember them?), Imp and Fed rank that actually means something and has consequences, and most importantly the absolute necessity to use third party sites like Inara and EDDB, just to play the game. Flesh the game out please. Add some meat to the skeleton.

I will continue to play, and enjoy Elite. Like I said at the start, I love this game. But I would not recommend Odyssey to anyone. £30 for a crappy FPS when a lot of the base game is still in dire need of some TLC is not good value at all.

I believe that this is the most crucial point in ED’s history, the game is on a knife edge. They have made some very poor decisions and now they have to put things right. Unfortunately, their track record suggests that this might not happen, but I sincerely hope they do.

For me, I am now, for the first time, keeping an eye on Star Citizen. It looks top drawer, and some well known content creators say things like it’s more immersive on a flat screen than ED is in VR, and I find that incredible! It’s nowhere near ready, and is still a long way off, but when it comes, I am afraid that ED will die.

And that breaks my heart…

o7 Commanders, and see you in the black

My history is similar to the OP, and yeah I was not at all happy with the way they rolled out Odyssey.
It was a case of muddled plan followed by even worse execution.

Braben himself said they were never going to do an FPS that rivals the main FPS titles out there.
That being said, I can kind of see how one thing leads to another: they didn't want to be accused of implementing legs without anything to do, so there had to be ground structures right?
So what do you do in those structures? Part of that has to be combat (and off they went down that rabbit hole).


I don't like the personal shields either, nor the weird way of upgrading stuff, but the main problem for me is they didn't get the balance right, as they thought they could sell the 'theatre of combat' and get x amount of new players in without disrupting the current player base, then they didn't even get it working at release, and were even willing to sacrifice VR entirely for it.
They should have sold:
1) interaction with NPCs in general, much more varied mission system (only now are they developing it)
2) salvage: exploring much greater variety of wrecks,
3) exploration: real variety is sorely needed: caves, procedurally generated artifacts, visiting labs to get bio stuff categorised, new space bodies such as rogue planets, comets, etc, that are not on the map.
4) extra SRVs (ok, now they are coming but ... )
5) base building would have interested a lot of people
6) ground surface (and cave) mining (with mining SRV)

They sold the ground based mechanics as an FPS game, nothing more, this was unlikely to succeed, and it gives the impression of fractures within the management at Frontier.

 

[babelfisch]

I really hope they don't listen to you. I want them to improve Odyssey.

 

[Factabulous]

I really hope they don't listen to you. I want them to improve Odyssey.

I really want them to improve performance and do the console versions. Then worry about literally anything else.

Well, ok, some bug fixes as well would be nice

 

[babelfisch]

I really want them to improve performance and do the console versions. Then worry about literally anything else.

Well, ok, some bug fixes as well would be nice

I think Odyssey has incredible potential and unlike some other additions, the foundation already is pretty good. If it's ship interiors, abandoned vessels in space, more complex missions, exploration content, etc. it all depends on Odyssey. There is only so much you can do in the cockpit of a space ship, everything that would actually add more depth requires the first person experience in my opinion. If there is a way forward, it's Odyssey.

 

[Iron Body]

I still feel the moon has almost no content at all. Miles wide, inch deep. It's basically just a heightmap, not even any caves or nothing.

But the moon does have caves and tunnels ...

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I really hope they don't listen to you. I want them to improve Odyssey.

So educate me with your suggestions and/or explain why you like the Odyssey FPS, why not?
By the way, I like the settlement design, I just think they sold it too much as an FPS.

 

[the100thmonkey]

To be clear, Odyssey's performance is often shocking. Star Citizen has even worse performance than Odyssey. Always has; always will - it's deep in the bones of the game. As for "content creators" saying SC is more immersive, they might be right, I guess, but it absolutely isn't when SC is even more akin to a Powerpoint than the current Odyssey build.

You can also do most of Odyssey's missions, even massacres, without shooting if you're sneaky enough. The game's affordances for that kind of play are quite constricting, however, in that it's a lot less obvious how, and more time-consuming, to do it that way.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Star Citizen has even worse performance than Odyssey. Always has; always will - it's deep in the bones of the game. As for shills "content creators" saying SC is more immersive. They might be right, I guess, but it absolutely isn't when SC is even more like a Powerpoint than the current Odyssey build.

To be clear, Odyssey's performance is shocking.

You can also do most of Odyssey's missions, even massacres, without shooting if you're sneaky enough. The game's affordances for that kind of play are quite constricting, however, in that it's a lot less obvious how to do it that way.

From the streams I have seen performance is similar between SC and ED but you could argue that SC has better graphics and certainly more happening with the terrain, weather etc.
Walking down a ramp and on to the ground is also certainly more immersive than the magic blue circle in ED.
But I'm sure Frontier would do all the interiors etc if they had the time and the money ..

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Performance is still the killer for me and I don't have VR so that's not a factor.

I still need to experience the ground missions to determine how much i'll enjoy them. If i enjoy them, then i'll do the whole suit grindy thing. If not, i'll probably just do enough to improve the exploration suit so i can stay outside the SRV longer so it will be nice for exploration... i'm sure some crazy dude will sooner or later propose an event to walk around a planet....

EDIT: actually, i guess someone is already doing that or has done it.

 

[Jokerman]

For what it's worth, the sentiments in the OP hit the point for me also.

I guess I am missing the message from FDev that really help me get excited about the future of EDO.

I still enjoy my time spend in ED when I play but the hour count has gone way down. (Horizons game play with the spacelegs features from EDO). I too care little about the FPS.

Allowing myself one 'if I was king' note - I'd wish for more science based gameplay, talking biology, chemistry here (exploration side) and OK to make that activity Dangerous too. If dangerous only means Guns, then there's a big chuck of opportunity missing.

That EDO missed target is clear. The decision making in FDev wasn't successful this time but there is a story about an ugly duckling that comes to mind!

S!

 

[Ian Skippy]

Allowing myself one 'if I was king' note - I'd wish for more science based gameplay, talking biology, chemistry here (exploration side) and OK to make that activity Dangerous too. If dangerous only means Guns, then there's a big chuck of opportunity missing.

Agree, bit doubt it will ever happen. A seizable chunk of the expo community abhors risk and danger, or even challenge in general. There will be a Mighty Outrage. :/

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Agree, bit doubt it will ever happen. A seizable chunk of the expo community abhors risk and danger, or even challenge in general. There will be a Mighty Outrage. :/

Agreed. although maybe that viewpoint has been a bit skewed by the fact that months of exploration data could be lost by one mistake? Don't get me wrong, I want more danger in exploration too, in fact I think there should be star systems with such strong radiation that you can only just stay long enough to scan the bodies before frying your ship, that sort of thing, but I would balance that with a better way of handing in data.

 

[babelfisch]

So educate me with your suggestions and/or explain why you like the Odyssey FPS, why not?
By the way, I like the settlement design, I just think they sold it too much as an FPS.

First, I don't see Odyssey as FPS. Sure, shooting is part of it but it's not the focus. Otherwise Skyrim would be a beat 'em up. And yes, shooting in Odyssey doesn't have the same quality as shooting in CoD (which I don't like), but combat in Skyrim doesn't have the same quality as combat in Dark Souls either. I guess it would be unfair to compare the FPS part of Odyssey to CoD, which you can finish in 6 hours even though it was made by hundreds of developers and a 100 million dollar budget. I hope you get the point.

It doesn't really make much sense to ask "what could the game do better" because the answer would be a million things. Anyone who isn't completely stupid could come up with awesome ideas, the difficulty lies in turning all these ideas into a good game. But (regarding the combat part), the two things that annoy me the most are the energy / kinetic META (and that's just because I don't like the design of the laser weapons) and the inability to swap mods between weapons.

Apart from that I obviously don't like the lack of ship interiors, exploration content being too shallow, mission diversity, visiting abandoned vessels in space and stuff like that. I hope these things get added / improved over time.


What Odyssey really does well is hard to describe, especially to people who just see "a bad FPS game" in it. They are missing the entire thing. First, there is the incredible scale: When I started playing ED I was impressed by the 400 billion stars galaxy but I couldn't really feel it. Now I can visit a star system, land on a random planet and explore a station or even just a crashed satellite. The fascination is similar to fractals and it's something no other game achieves on a similar level.

Next there are all the new mechanics. Compared to everything FDEV has added since 2014, Odyssey is probably the most fleshed out expansion. Apex, CZs, the mission gameplay, even exploring in its limited form... If I compare all that to the implementation of passengers for example we are talking about entirely different leagues. Even Horizons itself was just a joke compared to Odyssey in terms of gameplay and content.

If I could ignore the bugs and performance issues, Odyssey would be the best thing they've added to the game since launch. It's exactly the direction the game needs to keep going, stop with the shallow, half baked mechanics and add some real meat.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

For me, I am now, for the first time, keeping an eye on Star Citizen. It looks top drawer, and some well known content creators say things like it’s more immersive on a flat screen than ED is in VR, and I find that incredible! It’s nowhere near ready, and is still a long way off, but when it comes, I am afraid that ED will die.

Well, if the content creators say it's good, then sign me up for four copies and one of those ships that cost more than my rent.

 

[hems303]

So educate me with your suggestions and/or explain why you like the Odyssey FPS, why not?
By the way, I like the settlement design, I just think they sold it too much as an FPS.

I've been a player/backer from start (actually 1984) and just wanted to fly space ships.... I've never played a FPS in my life.... no interest. I agree fully with you..FDev should NOT have sold Oditty as a FPS.... the on foot bit is quite OK as a stealthy/infiltration game .... but as a FPS; not so much.....(but it needs more RELEVANCE for the ship flying bit).... I tried an on-foot CZ and did really quite well (so it probably is NOT up to scratch for hardcore FPS'ers). IMHO what FDev need to do is stop pretending Oditty is an FPS and 'INTEGRATE' the two elements of 'ships' & 'feet' so they support and bring relevance for each other.... more 'meaningfully' i.e. integrated. o7

Spoiler: Word for the day

'Integrated' = ''with various parts or aspects linked or coordinated''.
Webster

Edit: Just two suggestions from a fully qualified armchair developer:
(1) Introduce and place in-ship required materials into the on-foot experience.
(2) Introduce and place on-foot required materials into the in-ship experience.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

First, I don't see Odyssey as FPS. Sure, shooting is part of it but it's not the focus. Otherwise Skyrim would be a beat 'em up. And yes, shooting in Odyssey doesn't have the same quality as shooting in CoD (which I don't like), but combat in Skyrim doesn't have the same quality as combat in Dark Souls either. I guess it would be unfair to compare the FPS part of Odyssey to CoD, which you can finish in 6 hours even though it was made by hundreds of developers and a 100 million dollar budget. I hope you get the point.

It doesn't really make much sense to ask "what could the game do better" because the answer would be a million things. Anyone who isn't completely stupid could come up with awesome ideas, the difficulty lies in turning all these ideas into a good game. But (regarding the combat part), the two things that annoy me the most are the energy / kinetic META (and that's just because I don't like the design of the laser weapons) and the inability to swap mods between weapons.

Apart from that I obviously don't like the lack of ship interiors, exploration content being too shallow, mission diversity, visiting abandoned vessels in space and stuff like that. I hope these things get added / improved over time.


What Odyssey really does well is hard to describe, especially to people who just see "a bad FPS game" in it. They are missing the entire thing. First, there is the incredible scale: When I started playing ED I was impressed by the 400 billion stars galaxy but I couldn't really feel it. Now I can visit a star system, land on a random planet and explore a station or even just a crashed satellite. The fascination is similar to fractals and it's something no other game achieves on a similar level.

Next there are all the new mechanics. Compared to everything FDEV has added since 2014, Odyssey is probably the most fleshed out expansion. Apex, CZs, the mission gameplay, even exploring in its limited form... If I compare all that to the implementation of passengers for example we are talking about entirely different leagues. Even Horizons itself was just a joke compared to Odyssey in terms of gameplay and content.

If I could ignore the bugs and performance issues, Odyssey would be the best thing they've added to the game since launch. It's exactly the direction the game needs to keep going, stop with the shallow, half baked mechanics and add some real meat.

Thanks.
I agree with most of those points, and I never intended to say that there shouldn’t be on ground combat, just that it was sold as something entirely separate to ships, thereby forcing it all the more into a direct comparison with other FPS games.

 

[Cohen the Worrior]

52 years ago, we landed on the moon - and still haven't colonised Mars... Wow! a company that's actually slower than Fdev /s

At least he got to climb down the ladder to reach the surface, and I'm guessing he got up out of his seat and walked over to the space-door, looked out over an alien horizon then started down the ladder - 60 seconds or thereabouts, an Armstrong moment!

You've got a point there. Had they shown the threads, treads, rungs! of a ladder being pulled up before our nose at least it would be slightly harder for Yamiks to point and laugh.