Oculus Rift vs Track IR 5

[Zulubear]

There seems to be a shortage of comprehension here. I made it clear why I have no interest in it; I don't want to be blinded to my surroundings. Are you all claiming that you can see your surroundings with OR on your head? I don't need to blind myself to realise that something that covers my eyes will blind me i am sure it would be great fun spilling coffee on myself while playing

Well, if you'd used one, you'd know there are "peek holes" at the bottom of the Rift, which do allow you to kind of "break away" from the experience to look down at your keyboard - if you want to. With one hand on the joystick and another on the keyboard, I very very rarely even need to use those. If I need a drink, I flip up the Rift and take a drink...

The point I was making, is that there is really no comparison between TrackIR and Oculus Rift. They are different - but you are unable to say one is better than the other without trying both. Saying that you have no interest in one, simply means that you only have half the information and that your opinion is ultimately biased (sorry). Your opinion is valid and welcomed in a discussion about TrackIR vs no TrackIR - and I'd agree with everything you're saying in that discussion - but this is Oculus and TrackIR.

I think as you'll see here, anyone who has tried the DK2 with Elite has pointed out that it is about presence. I'm a 43 year old gamer. I've been gaming since Space Invaders and Pong and haven't stopped in 34 years. Every 5-6 years something comes along that just blows me away... Elite on the Oculus has been one of those experiences. I played Elite beta 1.0 initially with TrackIR (which I still use for Arma) and it was a great experience. Once I used the DK2 (I held off using my DK1 with Elite because the text was unreadable) I have not played Elite without it - I can't go back. There is just no comparison really.

P.S. I was recording gameplay the very first time I opened the Galaxy Map on the Oculus DK2. You can check out the video in my Youtube channel (link below right)

 

[Ref Minor]

P.S. I was recording gameplay the very first time I opened the Galaxy Map on the Oculus DK2. You can check out the video in my Youtube channel (link below right)

Opening up the Galaxy map and finding I was actually in it is an experience I won't forget in a hurry.

 

[Hominin]

Well, if you'd used one, you'd know there are "peek holes" at the bottom of the Rift, which do allow you to kind of "break away" from the experience to look down at your keyboard - if you want to. With one hand on the joystick and another on the keyboard, I very very rarely even need to use those. If I need a drink, I flip up the Rift and take a drink...

The point I was making, is that there is really no comparison between TrackIR and Oculus Rift. They are different - but you are unable to say one is better than the other without trying both. Saying that you have no interest in one, simply means that you only have half the information and that your opinion is ultimately biased (sorry). Your opinion is valid and welcomed in a discussion about TrackIR vs no TrackIR - and I'd agree with everything you're saying in that discussion - but this is Oculus and TrackIR.

I think as you'll see here, anyone who has tried the DK2 with Elite has pointed out that it is about presence. I'm a 43 year old gamer. I've been gaming since Space Invaders and Pong and haven't stopped in 34 years. Every 5-6 years something comes along that just blows me away... Elite on the Oculus has been one of those experiences. I played Elite beta 1.0 initially with TrackIR (which I still use for Arma) and it was a great experience. Once I used the DK2 (I held off using my DK1 with Elite because the text was unreadable) I have not played Elite without it - I can't go back. There is just no comparison really.

P.S. I was recording gameplay the very first time I opened the Galaxy Map on the Oculus DK2. You can check out the video in my Youtube channel (link below right)

nice video but it also demonstrates you fumbling around for things. bias comes in a lot of ways and one of them is after spending a whole bunch of money on something, people are inclined to defend it to death. so your answer is pretty much what i was expecting; you have to break your immersion for simple things like using your keyboard or taking a sip from your coffee. i drink a lot of coffee lol. of course graphics quality is an issue too; my gaming monitor is 3D capable but i don't use that feature because a) it is tiring on my eyes and b) post processing only works well on 2D so i get higher quality graphics without it. same applies to OR. most of the time i can't even be bothered setting up the surround; it is a work computer as well so normally i use a 1080p 120Hz 27" as main and a rotatable 1200p 24" for documents and a laptop lives where the third monitor goes so putting in the other 2 27" monitors takes a while and i stick to a single monitor most of the time. a good quality 27", trackIR and backlit instruments in a dark room is more than sufficient and once again provides better quality graphics than a surround setup (i am doing all this with a single titan so need to turn down post-processing with surround). the EEG on its way might supercede TrackIR though as that also has its own gyroscope but it definitely won't work with OR as the noise from the headset would drown out the signals from the brain. i actually need to invest in some plastic glasses so my metal ones don't cause interference.

at the end of the day it is personal preference and as i have said before, i don't like strapping anything on my head that blinds me to my surroundings. if i have to keep taking it on and off to do things, that is not going to help immersion much. your response and vid actually proves my point about losing RL situational awareness and it is not surprising; like most humans, i have the capacity to predict the results of actions so don't have to try everything to understand what benefits/harm they represent. if you insist i try it regardless, you are welcome to send me one for review btw, i am not saying OR doesn't have its advantages. it is simply a case of i don't like its disadvantages. however owners seem to wish to keep pulling the conversation away from those disadvantages which is not a healthy way to analyse anything; you need both the pros and the cons to make an informed decision on something.

anyway, at the end of the day, we are presenting our opinions for OPs sake and i think i have made mine clear.

 

[Ref Minor]

We get your opinion, what we don't get is why you care so much that you repeatedly go to the VR users forum to a thread about OR vs Track IR to tell everyone you haven't tried OR and have no interest in it?

 

[vanfanel]

I see...The rift does have disadvantages such as resolution but blocking out the real world imo is an advantage which is the point I think you miss when discussing VR. As for predicting the results of using the rift before trying it you'd be surprised at what your preconceived notions of what VR is. Most skeptical people of VR may have an idea of what VR is or they may even understand it completely but when they actually try it they get that..."I get it now!" moment

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

nice video but it also demonstrates you fumbling around for things. bias comes in a lot of ways and one of them is after spending a whole bunch of money on something, people are inclined to defend it to death. so your answer is pretty much what i was expecting; you have to break your immersion for simple things like using your keyboard or taking a sip from your coffee. i drink a lot of coffee lol. of course graphics quality is an issue too; my gaming monitor is 3D capable but i don't use that feature because a) it is tiring on my eyes and b) post processing only works well on 2D so i get higher quality graphics without it. same applies to OR. most of the time i can't even be bothered setting up the surround; it is a work computer as well so normally i use a 1080p 120Hz 27" as main and a rotatable 1200p 24" for documents and a laptop lives where the third monitor goes so putting in the other 2 27" monitors takes a while and i stick to a single monitor most of the time. a good quality 27", trackIR and backlit instruments in a dark room is more than sufficient and once again provides better quality graphics than a surround setup (i am doing all this with a single titan so need to turn down post-processing with surround). the EEG on its way might supercede TrackIR though as that also has its own gyroscope but it definitely won't work with OR as the noise from the headset would drown out the signals from the brain. i actually need to invest in some plastic glasses so my metal ones don't cause interference.

at the end of the day it is personal preference and as i have said before, i don't like strapping anything on my head that blinds me to my surroundings. if i have to keep taking it on and off to do things, that is not going to help immersion much. your response and vid actually proves my point about losing RL situational awareness and it is not surprising; like most humans, i have the capacity to predict the results of actions so don't have to try everything to understand what benefits/harm they represent. if you insist i try it regardless, you are welcome to send me one for review btw, i am not saying OR doesn't have its advantages. it is simply a case of i don't like its disadvantages. however owners seem to wish to keep pulling the conversation away from those disadvantages which is not a healthy way to analyse anything; you need both the pros and the cons to make an informed decision on something.

anyway, at the end of the day, we are presenting our opinions for OPs sake and i think i have made mine clear.

Your setup falls woefully short of the Oculus Rift in terms of immersion. You can complain about the practicalities of the DK2, but you cannot claim that it's less like reality then a triple monitor setup.

 

[Zagnox]

Been using Track IR5 since the beginning. It's better than nothing..It certainly helps in a dogfight. Been thinking about a rift for a while now, and after reading all this I just decided to order a DK2!

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

you have to break your immersion for simple things like using your keyboard or taking a sip from your coffee. i drink a lot of coffee
coffee

funny you mention coffee in this context - among other things, I make coffee whilst playing ed in a video I made a while back in response to someone who claimed you can't do anything in the rift:
http://youtu.be/YZYVzIZKf1k

No need to peek out - muscle memory works (sure - it looks a little clumsy, but it's good enough for me to never go back to triple screen and trackIR).

 

[Zulubear]

It's pretty obvious that Hominin is just trolling here. It seems I fell for it.

 

[Hominin]

We get your opinion, what we don't get is why you care so much that you repeatedly go to the VR users forum to a thread about OR vs Track IR to tell everyone you haven't tried OR and have no interest in it?

i don't care that much, the OP asked for opinions and i expressed my opinion. people respond with replies that show complete lack of understanding of what i am saying so i clarify for them. why do you care so much about my opinion that you keep responding? once again, nothing new from anyone, all just chanting "you haven't tried it". have you guys tried jumping off a cliff? how do you know you wouldn't enjoy it? i might not have tried it but i certainly did my research on it and it is not for me for the reasons i clearly stated. the OP might not have considered those factors.

I see...The rift does have disadvantages such as resolution but blocking out the real world imo is an advantage which is the point I think you miss when discussing VR. As for predicting the results of using the rift before trying it you'd be surprised at what your preconceived notions of what VR is. Most skeptical people of VR may have an idea of what VR is or they may even understand it completely but when they actually try it they get that..."I get it now!" moment

dude, OR is not VR. A proper VR requires a hell of a lot more equipment. OR is just a monitor strapped to your head with a gyroscope and that is nothing new. from 1991: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_VR. every time anyone tried this it ended up being a failure because most people don't like strapping a big box to their head. they always sell some but it never becomes sustainable. if you are enjoying yours then good for you but the OP would be wise to consider the negatives as well instead of just listening to hype when making a sizable purchasing decision.

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It's pretty obvious that Hominin is just trolling here. It seems I fell for it.

that's right, anyone that disagrees with you must be a troll lol.

 

[Hominin]

funny you mention coffee in this context - among other things, I make coffee whilst playing ed in a video I made a while back in response to someone who claimed you can't do anything in the rift:
http://youtu.be/YZYVzIZKf1k

No need to peek out - muscle memory works (sure - it looks a little clumsy, but it's good enough for me to never go back to triple screen and trackIR).

well you definitely get some kudos for that! :O

would love to see others do that though. i also know a guy who can type 5 different languages on a blank DAS keyboard but he is the only one i know who can do that.

 

[Nomadski]

I've got both TrackIR 4 and DK2 and tbh I've gone back to the TrackIR 4.

It's true the DK2 makes you feel your 'in' the spaceship, looking up and down and around is superb. You get a feeling of space around you unlike anything else.

I did love the fact I moved the throttle of my HOTAS and as I looked down, my avatar in sync moved the throttle. It was at once engaging and quite disturbing!

However take that away and you are left with incredibly underwhelming graphical fidelity inside and outside of your ship that breaks all the amazing immersion you get with this sense of space. Issues with sharpness, colour, the 'gauze' effect you have over everything that just reminds you are playing a game while looking at a Note 3.

I get bad chromatic aberration on almost every single star, stations are a fuzzy mess until up close, and the whole thing becomes quite an unpleasant experience IMO.

I understand this is an unfashionable view, as we are all supposed to be head over heels with the DK2, but the tech needs to mature quite some way before I feel the same way.

So I went back to the TrackIR 4, which is a big step up from fixed view (impossible to go back once you do some form of headtracking), and I can see the game in all its glory in high fidelity. This is much more important to me than being locked inside a fuzzy spaceship with fuzzy roids and fuzzy stations fuzzing past me.

For immersion and a unique and incomparable experience, OR is the future, no doubt. But right now I would rather take the headtracking solution any day of the week.

 

[Shigawire]

i don't care that much, the OP asked for opinions and i expressed my opinion. people respond with replies that show complete lack of understanding of what i am saying so i clarify for them. why do you care so much about my opinion that you keep responding? once again, nothing new from anyone, all just chanting "you haven't tried it". have you guys tried jumping off a cliff? how do you know you wouldn't enjoy it? i might not have tried it but i certainly did my research on it and it is not for me for the reasons i clearly stated. the OP might not have considered those factors.

dude, OR is not VR. A proper VR requires a hell of a lot more equipment. OR is just a monitor strapped to your head with a gyroscope and that is nothing new. from 1991: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_VR. every time anyone tried this it ended up being a failure because most people don't like strapping a big box to their head. they always sell some but it never becomes sustainable.

VR is many things. Any one of the parts that would make a compelling VR experience is considered VR. VR gloves would be VR.. A simple haptic 6dof VR controller would be part of VR.. A good HMD is VR.. there is no such puritan definition of VR as you've just claimed. In that, your definition is used by one person in the world: yourself.

Regardless, as you haven't even tried the Oculus Rift, your opinion on the matter is as informed and useful as George Bush' opinion on stem cell research. Any comparisons of the OR with head mounted displays from 1991 is merely confirming the... obtuseness you've displayed. I can understand why some believe you are trolling. But I'm not so quick to jump to such conclusions. There are more than enough irrational people in the world, rendering the "troll hypothesis" obsolete for most instances.

if you are enjoying yours then good for you but the OP would be wise to consider the negatives as well instead of just listening to hype when making a sizable purchasing decision.

The negatives of the HMDs of 1991? You are actually strawman-comparing a Cybermaxx-equivalent with the Oculus Rift. 30 degree field of view compared to 100 degree field of view. Head ache inducing refresh rates compared to 75-90hz.. 320x240 resolution compared to 1080p+ ... Mouse slaved controller compared to 6DOF accelerometer, gyroscope..
It's only "hype" if you haven't tried it yourself.

 

[Hominin]

VR is many things. Any one of the parts that would make a compelling VR experience is considered VR. VR gloves would be VR.. A simple haptic 6dof VR controller would be part of VR.. A good HMD is VR.. there is no such puritan definition of VR as you've just claimed. In that, your definition is used by one person in the world: yourself.

Regardless, as you haven't even tried the Oculus Rift, your opinion on the matter is as informed and useful as George Bush' opinion on stem cell research. Any comparisons of the OR with head mounted displays from 1991 is merely confirming the... obtuseness you've displayed. I can understand why some believe you are trolling. But I'm not so quick to jump to such conclusions. There are more than enough irrational people in the world, rendering the "troll hypothesis" obsolete for most instances.



The negatives of the HMDs of 1991? You are actually strawman-comparing a Cybermaxx-equivalent with the Oculus Rift. 30 degree field of view compared to 100 degree field of view. Head ache inducing refresh rates compared to 75-90hz.. 320x240 resolution compared to 1080p+ ... Mouse slaved controller compared to 6DOF accelerometer, gyroscope..
It's only "hype" if you haven't tried it yourself.

seems like i have hit cult members again lol. it is good to hear you represent the entire human population and know what everyone thinks to ascertain that i am the only person on the planet with that view; arrogance mastered. and yet more chanting the same thing. you guys must have very little imagination if being able to understand something before strapping it to your head feels like an impossible task to you. The sega kit was a business case example, but that concept seems to escape you as well considering you are taking it as a direct comparison of hardware. no, it is the negatives of having a brick on your head that blinds you, it doesn't matter what model. and yes, some of us aren't that easily impressed with just having a monitor on our head, we have higher expectations before calling things VR. by your loose definition, trackIR would also qualify as VR. btw, you also shouldn't be that impressed with the accelerometer, DK2 comes with what is basically a trackIR camera to make up for its shortcomings

if anyone has something original to say lets hear it. the whole "you can't know unless you try" simply demonstrates shortcomings in your imagination and is the content of pretty much every post so far lol..

 

[vanfanel]

VR is many things. Any one of the parts that would make a compelling VR experience is considered VR. VR gloves would be VR.. A simple haptic 6dof VR controller would be part of VR.. A good HMD is VR.. there is no such puritan definition of VR as you've just claimed. In that, your definition is used by one person in the world: yourself.

Regardless, as you haven't even tried the Oculus Rift, your opinion on the matter is as informed and useful as George Bush' opinion on stem cell research. Any comparisons of the OR with head mounted displays from 1991 is merely confirming the... obtuseness you've displayed. I can understand why some believe you are trolling. But I'm not so quick to jump to such conclusions. There are more than enough irrational people in the world, rendering the "troll hypothesis" obsolete for most instances.



The negatives of the HMDs of 1991? You are actually strawman-comparing a Cybermaxx-equivalent with the Oculus Rift. 30 degree field of view compared to 100 degree field of view. Head ache inducing refresh rates compared to 75-90hz.. 320x240 resolution compared to 1080p+ ... Mouse slaved controller compared to 6DOF accelerometer, gyroscope..
It's only "hype" if you haven't tried it yourself.

omg, forget it he's trolling. I wasn't sure at first with his ignorant responses but it's clearly obvious now when he compares VR now with that of the 90's, the rift is nothing new, just a monitor on your face, claiming to know "true" vr without even trying it lol...etc

 

[Tony Spaniels]

Oculus rift and Elite Dangerous go hand in hand, a perfect match. Anyone reading this thread who hasnt tried it, if you get a chance do yourself a favour and check it out!

If you dont like it after trying t fair enough, but from my experience demoing Elite and my dk2 to people the reaction 95% of the time is people being blown away! The other 5% tend to see how cool it is and they want a CV1, but the res isnt quite up there enough for them.

 

[Ref Minor]

I've got both TrackIR 4 and DK2 and tbh I've gone back to the TrackIR 4.

It's true the DK2 makes you feel your 'in' the spaceship, looking up and down and around is superb. You get a feeling of space around you unlike anything else.

I did love the fact I moved the throttle of my HOTAS and as I looked down, my avatar in sync moved the throttle. It was at once engaging and quite disturbing!

However take that away and you are left with incredibly underwhelming graphical fidelity inside and outside of your ship that breaks all the amazing immersion you get with this sense of space. Issues with sharpness, colour, the 'gauze' effect you have over everything that just reminds you are playing a game while looking at a Note 3.

I get bad chromatic aberration on almost every single star, stations are a fuzzy mess until up close, and the whole thing becomes quite an unpleasant experience IMO.

I understand this is an unfashionable view, as we are all supposed to be head over heels with the DK2, but the tech needs to mature quite some way before I feel the same way.

So I went back to the TrackIR 4, which is a big step up from fixed view (impossible to go back once you do some form of headtracking), and I can see the game in all its glory in high fidelity. This is much more important to me than being locked inside a fuzzy spaceship with fuzzy roids and fuzzy stations fuzzing past me.

For immersion and a unique and incomparable experience, OR is the future, no doubt. But right now I would rather take the headtracking solution any day of the week.

There you go hominim, that's how to have both a reasonable and negative view of a product, try the thing out rather than troll rubbish.

I partly agree with Nomadski, DK2 is a stepping stone, it's not perfect, there are compromises the user needs to make, for me it is well worth it, for Nomadski, less so. Both are valid as both come from actual experience.

 

[Hominin]

if anyone has something original to say lets hear it. the whole "you can't know unless you try" simply demonstrates shortcomings in your imagination and is the content of pretty much every post so far lol..

and all posts since lol.. i wonder if any of you could pass a turing test? Nomadski verified a few of my points as an owner and I am very impressed with Catpain Kirk but everyone else is just being fanboys and repeating each other.. whatever. tip for the OP; just google and check professional reviews before making a decision, owners have too much "i already spent a bunch of money on it" bias here.

 

[cherbert]

XBOX Controller, DK2, Surround Wireless Headset, VoiceAttack, Monitor Off, Lights Off, Total Darkness...

I'm there and I don't need to come out (except for the occasional coffee)


I do have a Hotas X. But I found (at least for the moment) that going back to the XBOX Controller feels better in the Rift. I can sit way back from the camera giving it a wider range - I can lean back in my seat and chill. The controller has no problems in the galaxy and system maps and is a joy to use.

I do have to defend the constant bashing of the graphics. They really aren't that bad - at least not bad enough to warrant not using the DK2 to play properly. I guess maybe being a DK1 owner gives me a higher tolerance for the DK2 graphics. Sure, a HD monitor is going to be very nice and crisp - but the DK2 is still very playable.

 

[jumbobreakfast]

owners have too much "i already spent a bunch of money on it" bias here.

That's a terrible argument considering the expense and effort you have put in yourself (link to your post)

Perhaps you need a break from your cockpit dude, all the best.