and I did... but it appears that you only want feedback that confirms your own bias against engineering mats.
What could be done to make me use engineering
- Thread starter Sophokles Logimo
- Start date
It means that while i think its easy, you don't, so we reach an impasse.
I am not ASKING for feedback (why would it concern me in any way what you think about my play preferences?). I am GIVING feedback. To FDev.
Ah, I understand. Maybe I misworded. I tried it OUT. I did not "try and fail".
It is not hard, just tedious and boring.
And to be clear, I appreciate you all adding your own views on how you see it completely differently. But if there are misunderstandings about what I said or why, I add information, of course.
A shame you didn't put it in the correct place then - as discussion isn't allowed there. Instead, predictably, here we are
Ahh so it is just a personal ego trip thread... my mistake... maybe a carefully worded letter would be better, since there is a dedicated feedback thread on this subject. I am sure Fact won't mind providing the link again... sure he has it handy since he only used it earlier today.
I wonder why so many people say the ED community had grown toxic. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Focused Feedback - Balancing Ship Engineering & Material Gathering
Greetings Commanders Now that Update 8 for Odyssey is live, we'd like to reignite the series of balancing changes that started before Odyssey's release. Now, it's time to turn our attention to ship Engineering. We recognise there has been significant feedback for on-foot Engineering too, but...
Frontier doesn't care if you're using Engineering or not, unless you using Engineering would lead you to buying more Arx.
Good point. Of course I would buy more Arx (and more future expansions) if I, for instance, could take part in PvP.
You don’t seem to want feedback. You just want the effort for the better things in end game to be removed. People are giving you options for things you could do to make this process easier. But you just want it handed to you.
This isn’t the MMO where you squat over a kill and fill your bags. It’s an attempt at a simulation of life in space. A life based on technology today that has progressed for 300 years. Not even slightly perfect, but it’s an attempt. So no… they will never remove all the effort that is required to be anything other than mediocre.
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And you read like a spoilt petulant child when anyone disagrees with you.
So please do carry on stamping your feet, sticking out your bottom lip and shouting
when anyone suggests alternative methods of engaging with
I'm sure FDev knows exactly what to do with feedback backed up by tantrums.
You are either a troll or afflicted with a serious reading disability. Either way, please do not post on social media.
So
Those silly material ARE engineering currencies. saying they are silly will not change that. But there are quite alot of materials that are used, and the only stuff you mostly need to concern yourself in gathering, is the G5 stuff, and to some extent the G4 stuff. because from these things, you can very easily get ALOT of the G1, G2 and G3 stuff. so this have mostly reduced all the stuff you need to be on the lookout for to 1/5th. Material traders was a huge change to the having the right material.
They have done that for the onfoot stuff, I am not a big fan, because supply is very limited and the extra costs for these pre-engineered weapons and suites are pretty bad. I have done some number crunching if they would do the same thing to pre-engineered ships, and most medium ships would make Fleet Carriers to look like cheap second hand stuff.
For the most part, the only material you are forced to specific limited activities are raw materials, any other material, you can often engage in many different activities to achieve. There a plenty of various missions that offers G4 and G5 material as rewards.
But in the end, new mechanics, new stuff in games, comes down to players having to adapt to take advantage of the new stuff. There various ways you can do that.
* Be focus oriented, make a list of all the stuff you need, and then go "shopping", ie do the best activity to gather the required material, this often the most boring way, as you will repeat doing things you do not like, engaging in mechanics, where you are missing the fine print, and thus not achieving the rates that the guide you are following says you will get etc. etc. I try to persuade as many players as possible to avoid going down this route. but most players end up in one form or another of this route, since they do not have the material when they want to engineer a new ship etc. You are very easily cought up in here if you use 3rd party tools, as these often make it very easy to create your shopping list.
* Cat on the mouse approach, you want to engineer something, have no clue what is needed, "visit" the engineer to pin the recipe, and learn what you need, and then go and collect the stuff, doing all sorts of activities, and once you have completed this, you repeat the process with the next module, and so on. this one is very chaotic, and you will find yourself all over the place... this is more varied, than the focus oriented approach, and you can often just pause and go and do something else, often because you are so upset about just going back and forth back and forth...
* Opportunistic, this is when you make small changes to your way of playing, like you just blew a ship up, quickly check what was dropped, and if you spot some G5 material, it might be worth your time to scoop it up, you travel and spot a signal source, if you have time, and it could contain some G5 stuff, have time to take a small detour? check the mission board, you can filter on rewards, any easy missions offering G4/G5 material? So you do not need to this all the time, but if you start to look out for opportunities, you start to get a saved stash of material, so the next time you want todo some engineering, you are very likely to have most of it already, or a quick visit to a material trader can often trade you what you are missing. Of course, if time spent collecting material is in direct relation to how much material you have got.
If you like combat, doing those assassinate pirate lords, can be a good source of material, and if you can stack several of these, you can encounter several pirate lords in the same fight. which is great if you think that just fighting one is to easy. I know that the wing variant for these are always the same, FDL with 1-3 Vultures, could be more variation here, but if one or two Pirate Lords in Corvettes joins such a fight, it definitely makes the fight more much interesting all of a sudden. So I do not collect stuff from every fight, but my combat ships usually now have a collector limpet controller, and a cargo rack, so that I have the option to pause and collect stuff. So missions can give material rewards, and the Pirate Lords often drop G4/G5 material.
Then we have move cargo and data missions, so if you are already moving to a system, then finding missions to that system or nearby system is a easy to do, this of course makes it easer todo when you know your surrounding systems, as you will learn the good missions from the bad ones.
I am not saying you have todo it this way, but these are suggestions to deal with many of the grievances I have encountered myself, among my friends and others that I have meet. These are not in any way foolproof or suits everyone, but is intended to reflect upon, and look how these suggestions could fit with your playstyle, so that you could be more opportunistic, as this would mean that you start to build your stash of material over time, so that the next time you want to engineer something, you already have a stash G4/G5 materials that a few visits to the material traders should yield a very short list of stuff you need gather, which should make this a much more pleasant activity compared to if you had to collect most material from scratch each time...
Those silly material ARE engineering currencies. saying they are silly will not change that. But there are quite alot of materials that are used, and the only stuff you mostly need to concern yourself in gathering, is the G5 stuff, and to some extent the G4 stuff. because from these things, you can very easily get ALOT of the G1, G2 and G3 stuff. so this have mostly reduced all the stuff you need to be on the lookout for to 1/5th. Material traders was a huge change to the having the right material.
They have done that for the onfoot stuff, I am not a big fan, because supply is very limited and the extra costs for these pre-engineered weapons and suites are pretty bad. I have done some number crunching if they would do the same thing to pre-engineered ships, and most medium ships would make Fleet Carriers to look like cheap second hand stuff.
For the most part, the only material you are forced to specific limited activities are raw materials, any other material, you can often engage in many different activities to achieve. There a plenty of various missions that offers G4 and G5 material as rewards.
But in the end, new mechanics, new stuff in games, comes down to players having to adapt to take advantage of the new stuff. There various ways you can do that.
* Be focus oriented, make a list of all the stuff you need, and then go "shopping", ie do the best activity to gather the required material, this often the most boring way, as you will repeat doing things you do not like, engaging in mechanics, where you are missing the fine print, and thus not achieving the rates that the guide you are following says you will get etc. etc. I try to persuade as many players as possible to avoid going down this route. but most players end up in one form or another of this route, since they do not have the material when they want to engineer a new ship etc. You are very easily cought up in here if you use 3rd party tools, as these often make it very easy to create your shopping list.
* Cat on the mouse approach, you want to engineer something, have no clue what is needed, "visit" the engineer to pin the recipe, and learn what you need, and then go and collect the stuff, doing all sorts of activities, and once you have completed this, you repeat the process with the next module, and so on. this one is very chaotic, and you will find yourself all over the place... this is more varied, than the focus oriented approach, and you can often just pause and go and do something else, often because you are so upset about just going back and forth back and forth...
* Opportunistic, this is when you make small changes to your way of playing, like you just blew a ship up, quickly check what was dropped, and if you spot some G5 material, it might be worth your time to scoop it up, you travel and spot a signal source, if you have time, and it could contain some G5 stuff, have time to take a small detour? check the mission board, you can filter on rewards, any easy missions offering G4/G5 material? So you do not need to this all the time, but if you start to look out for opportunities, you start to get a saved stash of material, so the next time you want todo some engineering, you are very likely to have most of it already, or a quick visit to a material trader can often trade you what you are missing. Of course, if time spent collecting material is in direct relation to how much material you have got.
If you like combat, doing those assassinate pirate lords, can be a good source of material, and if you can stack several of these, you can encounter several pirate lords in the same fight. which is great if you think that just fighting one is to easy. I know that the wing variant for these are always the same, FDL with 1-3 Vultures, could be more variation here, but if one or two Pirate Lords in Corvettes joins such a fight, it definitely makes the fight more much interesting all of a sudden. So I do not collect stuff from every fight, but my combat ships usually now have a collector limpet controller, and a cargo rack, so that I have the option to pause and collect stuff. So missions can give material rewards, and the Pirate Lords often drop G4/G5 material.
Then we have move cargo and data missions, so if you are already moving to a system, then finding missions to that system or nearby system is a easy to do, this of course makes it easer todo when you know your surrounding systems, as you will learn the good missions from the bad ones.
I am not saying you have todo it this way, but these are suggestions to deal with many of the grievances I have encountered myself, among my friends and others that I have meet. These are not in any way foolproof or suits everyone, but is intended to reflect upon, and look how these suggestions could fit with your playstyle, so that you could be more opportunistic, as this would mean that you start to build your stash of material over time, so that the next time you want to engineer something, you already have a stash G4/G5 materials that a few visits to the material traders should yield a very short list of stuff you need gather, which should make this a much more pleasant activity compared to if you had to collect most material from scratch each time...
You made great effort to suggest me ways how I could do something that I explicitly stated in the OP (which you quoted) I do not want to do. Why would you do that, if not out of a combination of general helpfulness (which I appreciate) and missing the point of this thread.
You even admit yourself that the system as it is causes "grievances". So it seems we agree that the system is in need of improvement.
I posted this in Suggestions. Not in "help so that playing this part of the game is less uarrgs" or any of those subforums. If I absolutely wanted to, of course I could somehow soothe myself into spending my free time with stuff I do not only not enjoy, but actively abhor. But that's not the point of this thread. Again, it is posted in Suggestions.
In an ideal world. FDev would listen to feedback about all that (or would have years ago) and then actually remove the "grievances". Because this is a game. It is supposed to be fun, not "grievance".
I understand that some grinding element is required to keep people engaged. But Engineering clearly, utterly, off-the-charts-ly overdoes this. The way it is, Engineering is an insult to the players. It is like FDev saying "hey videogame addict, we can make you do whatever we like, however silly it is! Muahahaha!".
Disgusting. Whenever I have an experience in-game where I am supposed to have done Engineering,, it pushes me away a little bit. There are other games who get this balance of "necessary grind" vs "fun activities" much better. This thread is about how to improve Elite Dangerous' balance between these two elements so that I don't have to play a certain unfinished game instead that is more resource-hungry.
Disclaimer: these are my, and mine alone, thoughts on your points
1. They should definately add a few "storyline" missions for each engineer, spanning 5-10 missions, to get the reputation. Materials req stays
2. no. just plain and simple no. Also, there will be outcries on the forum (read early fleet carrier price/upkeep threads) whatever pricetag is set
3. Don't really have an opinion there. But, even now computer stuff knows when to do what, to certain limits, but this is also quite a few centuries in to the future
Basically these threads (engineers) are for the very most part people wanting easy mode. Every single thread in this format suggest $$$ for buying engineered modules.
Get creative and jump in to the thread Factagoogle provided, FD are reading it, that's kind of the point isn't it.
The game provides what needs to be done to get what youy need. Yes, it could be better at informing.
MDH