More optional options allowed in "military" compartments. Please.

[Maolagin]

From what I see, those who are arguing against the change haven't given anything aside from "That's different than it is now! How dare you change something that might make it different! Don't you dare have fun by it being different!"

I have seen no arguments from them about what items may or may not be reasonable to put in that slot as to not severely change the way a military ship is a military ship. Just massive amounts of "HOW DARE YOU!" It's almost like they lack imagination.

They must HATE the way people can mod things like Skyrim...

No, it comes down to something else. This exact suggestion comes up periodically, and you get the same argument each time. You get much the same fight as well for a bunch of similar suggestions dealing with ship capabilities, income rates, engineering difficulty, etc. What I think it reveals is that you have two fundamentally divergent visions for the game represented here.

On the one hand, you have players who essentially ask for the game to be easier, because for them, it is more interesting if more things are possible with less effort. Essentially, they are the camp who want a more sandbox-like experience, where they can quickly try different things. On the other, you have players who prefer for the game to be harder and more limited, because they are interested in working through a progression or having to creatively overcome constraints. This tends to come across sounding like longing for "the good old days" because over time FDev adds new capabilities but rarely removes them.

And obviously this is a single shared world multiplayer game, so per-player modding isn't possible. ED isn't Skyrim.

 

[Saint Ajora]

And i raise your point with a double wrong! It's a game, realism and other such niceties always come second to whether the game is fun and whether it is working the way the game makers wants it to work, in both cases you are wrong.

Then why do they even have a suggestions tab on the forum? Looks like you skipped over triple and went to quadruple wrong.

My post is logical for the universe it is set in. If you can't deal with that, that is not my problem.

 

[Saint Ajora]

TL;DR

Make military slots normal slots.

Not really because somethings still shouldn't fit there as I have stated before as the space really isn't available like a normal optional slot.

Things that would have easily reconfigurable areas and still fit the "military role" aspect of the ship.

 

[Saint Ajora]

Do not forget, the obvious elephants in the room... how logical is that we flying in space ships, can travel faster than light, have instant teleportation of yourself thousands if not million LY when you die. the fact that we have unlimited amount of "lifes" when our ships is destroyed. We can ha near instant remote control in the form of multicrew, where a CMDR on one end of the galaxy that visit the ship of a CMDR at the OTHER END of the galaxy, and have real time control of certain functions of the other CMDR's ship or SLF.

Things that if we went after realism would not be a thing.. but are there to make the game more fun, just like you said, fun > realism in most games, even in games like flight simulators there is plenty of realisms that is skipped for the sake of making it fun.

Which is why I said IMMERSION. Not to mention when someone says realistic in these settings they are referring to what that universe would have, not realistic when compared to ours.

 

[Saint Ajora]

No, it comes down to something else. This exact suggestion comes up periodically, and you get the same argument each time. You get much the same fight as well for a bunch of similar suggestions dealing with ship capabilities, income rates, engineering difficulty, etc. What I think it reveals is that you have two fundamentally divergent visions for the game represented here.

On the one hand, you have players who essentially ask for the game to be easier, because for them, it is more interesting if more things are possible with less effort. Essentially, they are the camp who want a more sandbox-like experience, where they can quickly try different things. On the other, you have players who prefer for the game to be harder and more limited, because they are interested in working through a progression or having to creatively overcome constraints. This tends to come across sounding like longing for "the good old days" because over time FDev adds new capabilities but rarely removes them.

And obviously this is a single shared world multiplayer game, so per-player modding isn't possible. ED isn't Skyrim.

There really have been no arguments against it other than "no, because I say so" which is not a valid argument at all. There is absolutely so excuse for going against my idea. In game aspects you can already make any ship do anything so that Star Citizen approach of "this ship does this only" is beyond moot.

This has nothing to do with making the game harder or easier, it is about what is logical and what would exemplify what the game already does.

Haven't heard of Skyrim Together have you? Their point is still relevant.

 

[Gordon Freeman IV]

The way I see it there is no reason to not allow AFMUs, cargo racks, fuel tanks, FSD boosters, and really anything else that has 0 weight/mass. Such a simple alteration to make so many more ships more viable in so many more applications. One could even make an argument for allowing economy cabins. Just the visual of shoving people on top of one another in multi bunk hammocks or just taping them to the walls makes me giggle.

This literally takes nothing away from anyone and only gives more options to those who want to do something not combat orientated.

I disagree with most of that Although AFMUs, Repair/decontamination limpet controllers, and shield generators should be allowed in these as they are used in combat. They are called MILITARY compartments for a reason.

 

[Saint Ajora]

So what have you given to the discussion then? except attacking people not agree with OP ...

They aren't attacking anyone. They are stating that the only counter arguments to my idea that exist in this thread are nothing but "cuz I don't like it."

 

[Saint Ajora]

I disagree with most of that Although AFMUs, Repair/decontamination limpet controllers, and shield generators should be allowed in these as they are used in combat. They are called MILITARY compartments for a reason.

Again...A shield generator would not be able to fit where these modules are. A shield generator is a single massive thing that when disassembled, does not work the same way.

AFMU :: Massless and since medkits are carried by military personnel and a vast majority of vehicles carry repair kits on them when in the field. Yes they should be allowed.
Cargo racks :: A bunch of smaller containers that could easily be stored in many different shapes.
Fuel :: Literally a fluid, do I need to say more?
People :: More of a joke but the same concept as cargo applies. If a repurposed military APC busts into a flaming building you are in to rescue you, 100% you are hopping in that vehicle even if you have to cram yourself against a wall with 3 peoples arms jammed into your ribcage.

 

[Saint Ajora]

The only other role the FDL should be good at would be a luxury passenger craft but I suspect the poor jump range and lack of internals would mean it would suck at that, too.

Key word there is GOOD (even though you mean "well"). Yes you are correct. However it CAN still do those other things even if it does them poorly.

 

[Gordon Freeman IV]

Again...A shield generator would not be able to fit where these modules are. A shield generator is a single massive thing that when disassembled, does not work the same way.

AFMU :: Massless and since medkits are carried by military personnel and a vast majority of vehicles carry repair kits on them when in the field. Yes they should be allowed.
Cargo racks :: A bunch of smaller containers that could easily be stored in many different shapes.
Fuel :: Literally a fluid, do I need to say more?
People :: More of a joke but the same concept as cargo applies. If a repurposed military APC busts into a flaming building you are in to rescue you, 100% you are hopping in that vehicle even if you have to cram yourself against a wall with 3 peoples arms jammed into your ribcage.

Other than that it is only for modules directly related to combat and my vette has C5 military compartments enough for a C5 shield. We have no interiors making module "size" irrelevent because it doesnt have a model or dimendions how do you know a C5 military compartment is much smaller than a C5 normal.

 

[Saint Ajora]

Other than that it is only for modules directly related to combat and my vette has C5 military compartments enough for a C5 shield. We have no interiors making module "size" irrelevent because it doesnt have a model or dimendions how do you know a C5 military compartment is much smaller than a C5 normal.

AFMUs are directly related to combat, so are limpets, so is fuel. AFMUs are med kits, limpets for salvaging resources from a battlefield, and fuel because it is fuel. Shields protect from more than just weapons fire. Even the things you can currently put in there are not "military exclusive."

How can you say we don't know sizes for internal slots. Cargo racks are pretty good indicators of a internal's size. Unless you are saying everything is just kept in briefcases that contain black holes.

 

[DemiserofD]

There are good limits and bad limits. Bad limits restrict player creativity, while good limits generate it. For example, if you ask someone to draw the sun, and give them yellow paint, everyone will draw roughly the same thing. But give them green, blue, and red paint, and everyone will make something different and unique.

I believe that military slots are of the 'good' variety of limitation.

Something I have pondered in the past, however, is that these ships could use these slots in a downgraded manner. For example, a chieftain could put C4 modules in their military slots, OR c2 non-military modules in the same slots.

Then you could actually re-introduce the old Passenger slots to the Saud Kruger ships, with a similar approach; the C3 slots could hold C5 passenger cabins, or C3 of anything else, as presently.

That might strike a balance between the two, but it would take some tweaking and testing to make sure it wasn't unbalanced.

 

[MickyG1982]

There really have been no arguments against it other than "no, because I say so" which is not a valid argument at all.

Pretty much like your argument of "yes, because I say so" isn't it?

There are good limits and bad limits. Bad limits restrict player creativity, while good limits generate it. For example, if you ask someone to draw the sun, and give them yellow paint, everyone will draw roughly the same thing. But give them green, blue, and red paint, and everyone will make something different and unique.

I believe that military slots are of the 'good' variety of limitation.

Something I have pondered in the past, however, is that these ships could use these slots in a downgraded manner. For example, a chieftain could put C4 modules in their military slots, OR c2 non-military modules in the same slots.

Then you could actually re-introduce the old Passenger slots to the Saud Kruger ships, with a similar approach; the C3 slots could hold C5 passenger cabins, or C3 of anything else, as presently.

That might strike a balance between the two, but it would take some tweaking and testing to make sure it wasn't unbalanced.

He He, can't believe I'm saying this, but (for once) you and I agree on something, maybe if the OP had led with that one...

It makes sense, in order to fit a none military module in a military slot you'd have to fit it round all the military equipment in there which means you can't fit as much.

 

[RBHM Spoons]

Can see AFMUs being used to repair critical "Military" equipment like...

Oh I don't know.... The ships weapons??...

 

[Saint Ajora]

Pretty much like your argument of "yes, because I say so" isn't it?

No as I have given plenty of logical reasons. Please read them before commenting again.

There are good limits and bad limits. Bad limits restrict player creativity, while good limits generate it. For example, if you ask someone to draw the sun, and give them yellow paint, everyone will draw roughly the same thing. But give them green, blue, and red paint, and everyone will make something different and unique.

I believe that military slots are of the 'good' variety of limitation.

Something I have pondered in the past, however, is that these ships could use these slots in a downgraded manner. For example, a chieftain could put C4 modules in their military slots, OR c2 non-military modules in the same slots.

Then you could actually re-introduce the old Passenger slots to the Saud Kruger ships, with a similar approach; the C3 slots could hold C5 passenger cabins, or C3 of anything else, as presently.

That might strike a balance between the two, but it would take some tweaking and testing to make sure it wasn't unbalanced.

Do you even see that you contradicted yourself? As you are both opposing and agreeing opening them up to more options. For what seems like the 9 billionth time this thread I have not said to completely unrestrict them as you are implying I am.

Why make things more complicated by allowing smaller variants into the equation? Simply add a few more reasonable things that make sense, AFMUs, Cargo Racks, Fuel. The passenger cabins part was a bit of a joke but an argument could still be made for economy cabins or even adding a new rescue variant for all rescue missions.

 

[Saint Ajora]

Can see AFMUs being used to repair critical "Military" equipment like...

Oh I don't know.... The ships weapons??...

I can't wait to see someone try to argue against this.

 

[Saint Ajora]

He He, can't believe I'm saying this, but (for once) you and I agree on something, maybe if the OP had led with that one...

Uh no. You are agreeing with someone who is contradicting themselves.

It makes sense, in order to fit a none military module in a military slot you'd have to fit it round all the military equipment in there which means you can't fit as much.

No as that military equipment isn't there as the slot is empty.

 

[Saint Ajora]

Well that was an interesting - if pointless - diversion.

Tell me about it. Those making this argument know they are wrong so they start grasping at straws.

 

[CMDR Serra]

Tell me about it. Those making this argument know they are wrong so they start grasping at straws.

I know. I wish they'd recognise that it's a daft idea.

 

[Saint Ajora]

I know. I wish they'd recognise that it's a daft idea.

Yeah, It is daft to not allow AFMUs, cargo, and fuel tanks in military slots.