Powerplay Powerplay 2.0 - What is Power Play? What is Politics? Why Powerplay doesn't have either one...but it should.

Welcome to Powerplay 2.0. This is the most comprehensive rework of Powerplay I've ever written, or seen. Clocking in at over 6300 words, it's very long, and very detailed. Rest assured, the experienced Powerplay can skip much of it, as I've added a great deal of detail to help those less familiar with Powerplay to understand the various concepts as they go.

If all you're interested in is a TLDR, I've put one at the bottom. However, I believe every detail of this post is important, since fixing Powerplay is a complex issue! I'd appreciate it if you'd give it a read!

Without further ado: Powerplay 2.0.




Prelude: Politics and Powerplay


What is Politics, and why does it matter?

Politics is defined as, "The activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power." To put it another way, politics is 'people fighting over meaningful power'.

In other words: Power Play.

Unfortunately, Powerplay is NOT Politics. Powerplay currently has little connection to REAL power. In fact, it is the opposite; Powerplay is a metaphorical island, isolated from almost all other aspects of gameplay. Rather than impacting everything in the game, it's cut off, separated, and isolated. Players must willingly travel there in order to participate, cutting themselves off from the rest of the game in the process.

People don't get into Politics because they want to be a politician. They get into politics because they want to exercise REAL power.

By contrast, people get into Powerplay because they want to pretend to be a politician. It's as far away from 'Power-Play' as something can be; rather than being a concentration of real power, it means actively disconnecting yourself from the majority of the game to play a fake game with imaginary currency that makes no difference.

If there’s to be any hope of long-term success of Powerplay, people need real, tangible reasons to engage with it. To actively fight for their power; not just pledge, get their modules, and leave.

How do you make players care about Powerplay? By attracting them with real, meaningful power.

This is a very, very long thread - at last count, over 6000 words - so here's a brief summary of the contents for those who are less patient.

Subtopic Summary

  1. To encourage player engagement, Powers can purchase bonuses to benefit their Pledged players.
  2. Remove Upkeep. By removing Upkeep, 5C can be removed. Repurpose CC to buy Bonuses.
  3. Powers can improve Control systems to improve their CC income, encouraging them to focus on long-term strategy.
  4. Powers get a one-time CC bonus for capturing an enemy system, encouraging them to fight rather than fortify forever, and also helping prevent Powers from expanding indefinitely.
  5. Pirate and Thargoid attacks replace the Overhead system. This lets players fight directly against it, rather than abstractly countering it.
  6. PVP integration via Convoys. Convoys help fortify Controlled systems. Convoys generate their own instances, which can be defended or attacked. This offers a central location for meaningful pvp, without preventing solo hauling.
  7. Players can acquire Powerplay modules without pledging, by supporting Powers in other ways.
  8. Powerplay general strategy is redesigned from the current abstract statistical system, to a direct system based on proper Control System placement and maintaining supporting BGS factions.

All this is a little complicated, but I’ll explain, I promise.


Part 1: Buying Bonuses with CC (Why do powers fight?)


Why do Powers fight other Powers? Why do players choose to fight for their Power?

This is an issue that has plagued Powerplay since the beginning. To many players, simply fighting over territory is not sufficient justification for competition. This is where the difference between Power, Politics and Politicians comes into play. Players need a reason to fight, and that reason should be real power.

This Power will be bonuses.

Powerplay currently has bonuses, but many of these bonuses are active by default, regardless of participation(such as active bonuses to trade or exploration profits)which does little to encourage participation or competition. Other bonuses are either worthless, or unreachable due to the low ranking of a Power. If Zemina Torval players, for example, want to get their power to first place in the galaxy, it would take months of constant effort to reach it, the majority of which would be spent with absolutely nothing to show for it, and even with said effort, most likely such a goal is impossible. This leads to low-ranked powers withering and dying, while large powers grow stagnant. These powers need a reason to compete, even when first place is unreachable.

These bonuses would replace the existing bonuses(IE, the bonuses for Rank 5, for being in the top 3 powers, etc). Powers could still buy the exact same bonuses, but they could also choose to buy something else, allowing for a greater variety of choices, and allowing powers with bad or undesired bonuses(for example, bonuses to rare goods profits) to swap them for better ones.

Importantly, high-ranked Powers would still have more bonuses overall, due to their high rank. However, with this new system, even low-ranked Powers will have a reason to fight, as every additional bit of effort allows them to purchase additional bonuses for those in their team.

Here is just a short example of the sorts of bonuses Powers could purchase. Many of them are similar to existing bonuses for Powers, but crucially, allowing Powers to pick and choose based on their playerbase’s preferences.

  • - Bounties and Fines(Double for Archon Delaine)
  • + Rare Goods Profits(Double for Alliance and Torval)
  • + Trade Profits(Double for Alliance)
  • + All Profits (Double for Grom)
  • + Exploration Data Profits(Double for Sirius Corp)
  • - Ammo Synthesis Materials Cost(Double for Patreus)
  • + Ammo Capacity(Double for Patreus)
  • + Mining Laser Damage(Damage, not mining speed)(Double for Zemina Torval)
  • + Collector Limpet Speed(Double for Zemina Torval)
  • + Hatchbreaker Speed(Double for Archon Delaine)
  • + Hatchbreaker Ejection Quantity(Double for Archon Delaine)
  • + base shield values(not percent)(Double for Aisling Duval)
  • + Bounties(Double for Arissa Duval, Hudson, and Antal)
  • + Stored ship transport speed and - ship transport cost.
  • Enhanced Mercenary Defensive Forces (Cheap: allied ships usually spawn with a medium-ranked non-faction escort)
  • Enhanced Power Defensive Forces (Expensive: allied ships always spawn with a high-ranked faction escort, such as a Gunship, Challenger, or pair of Couriers)
  • Increased System Security
  • Reduced System Security
  • Enhanced AX Defenses(Cheap: defensive ships are loaded with some AX weaponry)
  • Heavily Enhanced AX Defenses(Expensive: defensive ships are loaded with guardian weaponry)
  • Modules are no longer 'hot' when taken off wanted ships.
  • etc.


The general theme is that powers can choose to buy their standard bonus, or they can swap it for something else, which may be weaker, but still preferred for one reason or another. Some bonuses could be purchased multiple times, especially the bonuses previously based on galactic ranking. This will likely result in many Powers choosing some things while neglecting others(IE, cheaper ammo will likely not be chosen very often) but that’s not because the system is broken, but rather because those bonuses are inadequate. If no Powers are buying a certain bonus, that would be a good reason for Fdev to buff those bonuses, and they would gradually evolve over time towards a more balanced state.

The Power itself, too, would have a vote,(by which I mean, the Individual; Zachary Hudson or Arissa Lavigny Duval, and so on) which would always be in keeping with their native policies. This would not be a massive effect, but would mean that lacking player input, the power would gradually revert to a ‘default’ state, and players would be encouraged to join powers that match their personal ethos, more than changing the power to suit themselves.

Overall, Powers would tend towards bonuses similar to their current versions, only with the potential for improvement or evolution based on the needs of the Power. Zemina Torval would still be the Power focused on Mining(due to her enhanced bonuses along those lines), but she could get rid of the useless Rare Goods bonus, swapping it for a different bonus which may be smaller statistically, but still more useful to the players on the whole.

But how will these bonuses be purchased?

Using CC, or Command Capital.


Part 2: CC, and Removing Upkeep.


Command Capital. What is CC used for, and why is it a problem?

Command Capital, or CC, is a Powerplay ‘commodity’ used for 'buying' expansions into new systems. These systems, once bought, then provide CC.

It should be immediately apparent why this cycle, and therefore CC as a whole, is a problem. CC’s only purpose is for acquiring more systems, but the only reason to get more systems is to get more CC. Furthermore, each additional system costs more than the last. Therefore, powers acquire CC, and systems, one after another, until reaching an inevitable point of stagnation. Many of the larger Powers have been stuck at this point for years.

Since acquiring CC is the primary focus for Powerplay, and CC quickly reaches a point of stagnation, CC only serves to discourage many players. The pursuit of CC should be a powerful motivator for players to engage with the game. CC should be used for profound impacts on the game. Things players want to fight for, driving players to acquire more systems, or fight, to sustain these benefits. CC is the reward for Powerplay, and therefore CC should be the driving force behind Powerplay, towards conflict, not towards stagnation.

But before we can do that, we need to take a step back. The first step of fixing CC is getting rid of Upkeep(and, by proxy, Overhead).

What is Upkeep? Briefly, Controlled systems cost CC to maintain. The further from a Power’s home system, the more CC it costs. The more systems a Power controls, the more CC new systems cost. Eventually, Powers reach a point where most new Systems cost more than they give. For ease of discussion, all of this I group under the singular banner of ‘Upkeep’.

Upkeep is a bad system. Powerplay is about competition against other players, but upkeep instead turns the game into players against the game itself. Many players are not interested in fighting endlessly against the game itself, just to hold their current position. Players join competitive game modes to compete against other players, not against a brick wall of gameplay mechanics.

Even worse, upkeep opens the door to so-called 'Fifth Column' attacks. These occur because it is possible to make moves that cause more harm than good. Since any player can join a Power, these attacks can happen at any time, and are very difficult to stop; you can’t just start killing your own team! Fifth Column attacks can be the most devastating attacks a Power can face; losing a good system might take a few weeks to correct, but taking the wrong system can take months, or years. Worse, 5C attacks require heavy metagaming to prevent, often doing bizarre things like attacking one's own power, or sacrificing good expansions to prevent bad ones. This draws players out of the game, breaking the suspension of disbelief, distracting players from competing with enemy powers, and instead forcing them to fight with the game itself.

But most importantly, upkeep is not necessary.

The primary purpose of upkeep is to prevent Powers from expanding indefinitely and quickly covering every available system, but this can be achieved in other ways. I will elaborate on this below, but to briefly sum up; reward Powers more for reinforcing existing systems than for taking new ones, and at the same time, reward powers for capturing enemy systems, ensuring Powers focus on each other, and the conflict, more than on mindless expansion.

Upkeep should be removed entirely. There should be no such thing as a 'bad' expansion; the worst case scenario should be a new system that doesn't give any CC; even then, it might be valuable for strategic or tactical purposes. Removing the possibility of bad moves will heavily reduce or eliminate 5C attacks, because sabotage will become functionally impossible.

An additional benefit is, because there are now no downsides to taking additional systems, Preparations and Expansions could be removed from any voting process altogether. If an individual player chooses to expand to a system without significant benefit to the Power as a whole, there’s no harm in allowing them to do so, and if the rest of the power doesn’t support them, no voting against them is necessary; all they need to do is refuse to actively help them, allowing their efforts to be easily captured by an enemy power. Since this is one of the most confusing aspects to newer Powerplayers, this will significantly open the door to the less experienced, and get more people playing Powerplay.

Part 3: Control System Improvements


Now that players are encouraged to gather as much CC as possible, the first response players will have is to expand their Power to every system they can. Since Upkeep has been removed, there is also no downside to doing this. Players need a reason to focus their attention on their existing systems, rather than focusing on unchecked expansion.

The first part of this is system improvements.

When first claimed, Systems would provide a relatively small amount of CC income. As this System is fortified over time, the CC income of the system would increase, as the Power entrenches its position, and gains influence over local factions.

Currently, what is Fortification? Fortification is the main way that Players currently acquire Merits and play Powerplay. Players collect Merits at their Power’s home base, and deliver them to various systems around the bubble. Currently, the result of fully Fortifying a System is the removal of Upkeep for that week. Since Upkeep no longer exists, this process would be replaced. Instead, hauling sufficient Merits to a system would cause the gradual improvement of that system, and a slow increase of its CC income.

A poor system could never become as profitable as a good system, but it could still become profitable. On the flipside, fortifying a good system could provide more CC than taking a new poor system.

This helps to keep rampant expansion in check, but it still lacks a solid reason to fight, and would eventually result in every system in the bubble being taken, so an additional factor is required: Looting.


Part 4: Keeping Runaway Expansion in Check: Raids and Looting


While Improvements will help to slow the rate of rampant expansion, it alone won’t check it entirely. Powers will always choose to expand, rather than fight, because it will be easier. To encourage Powers to fight before claiming every possible system, Powers will be rewarded for successfully undermining enemy systems.

However, it’s important to recognize a critical aspect of the removal of Upkeep; since taking a system cannot harm the power anymore, this means that Powers cannot go into Turmoil. A new system for losing systems is required. This system, however, can be much simpler than before.

Turmoil was always somewhat unintuitive. The way it currently works is, when a Power doesn’t have enough CC to sustain its systems, it loses the most expensive system under its control, and then the next, and so on until enough CC is left to sustain the rest. This can lead to confusing results; a Power could be attacked on one frontier, lose, and yet rather than losing the attacked system, lose a system on the complete opposite side of their territory, giving that system to an entirely different power than the one currently attacking. This can be unintuitive and unsatisfying, especially for newer players, to whom the results seem completely disconnected from their actions.

With the new lack of upkeep, this could be simplified substantially. When a system is undermined, that system, and that system alone, is put at risk. If it is undermined more than it is fortified, that system is lost.

But this still raises the question of, why? Why attack another power at all?

Looting is the answer.

Whenever Powers cause an enemy Power to lose a system, the attacking power(s) gain an instant bonus of CC, depending on the value of the attacked system. Essentially, the long-term profits of the system are taken as an immediate CC bonus, with the rewards distributed to each attacking Power based on the percentage of total undermining each attacking Power did.

For example, if Archon Delaine and Zemina Torval attack a Zachary Hudson system which gives him 25 CC a week, it might be worth 100CC in loot. If Archon players do 75% of the work, and Torval players do 25% of the work, then Archon Delaine will immediately receive 75CC at the end of the week, and Torval receiving 25 CC, while Hudson loses the system, and all accumulated Fortification.

This will prevent rampant over-expansion, since hostile Powers will always be searching for a weak point to attack, to gain an immediate bonus. Smaller Powers would generally be better off attacking larger Powers and fortifying their own systems, rather than expanding exponentially. However, it also leaves room for Powers to expand as their playerbase increases. If more players enter Powerplay, the Powers could expand to compensate.

Even this, however, may not be enough to fully counteract a single dominant Power from taking complete control. As one final aspect to prevent unlimited expansion, there would be:


Part 5: Thargoids and Pirates


One final balance factor is necessary. Right now, as a Power expands to more and more systems, they face increasingly massive Overhead, heavily limiting which systems they can expand into, but doing so in a dull and uninspired way, and even worse, in a way that is completely disconnected from player effort. Powers do need to be prevented from achieving runaway success and conquering the entire galaxy, but because upkeep is gone, it needs to happen in a different way. Fortunately, this way can also be more interesting and enjoyable.

Thargoids and Pirates would occasionally attack random systems, typically on the outskirts of Powers. Rather than fighting this off abstractly, via fortifying, players would instead fight it off directly, by killing the pirates or thargoids in the system.

If they fail to drive off the attack, it will mean the system will be lost. Most of the CC will go to the Pirates or Thargoids(functionally disappearing into the void), but enemy Powers who aided in the attack could also claim some for themselves, and use the opportunity to make an attack that would otherwise be impossible.

These attacks would be random. Theoretically, this would affect everyone equally, but because large Powers have the most territory to be attacked, they would generally face the brunt of attacks.

Additionally, Pirate attacks would function somewhat differently from Thargoid attacks. Pirate attacks would simply cause the system to be lost, and cause economic damage that makes the system undesirable for Powerplay for several weeks. That, however, would be the end of it.

Thargoids, by contrast, would be a more existential threat. If Thargoids are not repelled, they would expand, attacking system after system, and burning the stations in those systems, requiring sustained effort to repair. This could be a powerful way to weaken major Powers, but could also turn against the galaxy, as if the incursion is allowed to grow too large, it could become difficult to repel before spreading to other Powers! Powers would need to plan carefully and strategically to make sure they don’t end up hurting themselves in the process of hurting others.

This forces larger Powers to think strategically. It may be more effective to spend their CC on better NPC defenses against these threats, rather than attempt to drive them off purely via player effort, and it gives smaller Powers an advantageous position to attack them. It also creates incentive to form alliances and work together for the greater good. Two formerly-hostile factions might declare peace until a Thargoid incursion is dealt with, while others might attack them to gain the advantage.


Part 6: Pledging and getting Merits.


Since players are now incentivized to increase the strength of the power on their own, without needing merit rewards(due to getting rewards directly from CC purchases), merit rewards no longer need to be awarded exclusively for hauling merits or undermining. Players will naturally accrue merits as they play the game, similar to ARX.

  • Merit gain is increased when inside Power territory.
  • Merit gain is increased when doing Power-related activities(such as hauling merits).
  • Merit gain is increased when doing ethos-aligned activities - IE, when Delaine players do piracy or smuggling, when Alliance players trade, when Sirius corp players explore.
  • By contrast, each Power also has counter-aligned activities, which do not give merits; for Delaine, it would be trading, while for Winters, it would be piracy and smuggling.

As a result, the number of votes players get(to vote for CC rewards) increases as they play the game more, and especially as they do ethos-based activities. This means that it is no longer possible to quickly farm your way to a max-rank and maximum votes, as the normal players who are just playing the game will always have more merits than an alt account only used occasionally.

With these changes, 5C should be effectively eliminated. 5C players will have less votes than the actual participating players, and even if they do manage to gain power, the worst thing a 5C player can do is vote for a less-useful bonus, and even the worst bonus is still a bonus, and still helpful.

In addition, these activities would not only reward the player with Merits, they also give a small amount of CC to the Power; not as much as claiming systems, but enough that just having more players is beneficial. This represents the players 'showing the flag', both inside and outside their territory. The reason for this is to encourage Powers to recruit new players, even those who are not directly interested in Powerplay activities.

This CC reward experiences diminishing returns, so while larger powers will get somewhat more than smaller powers, the difference won't be as massive as the difference in population. A large power would generally get this CC by default, but a small power might be incentivized to specifically task a player or group of players to go participate in a given activity, to show the flag and gain the associated CC rewards.

6a: Powerplay Modules: Gaining Merits without Pledging


One aspect of Powerplay that many players don’t like is the way you need to pledge to a faction and wait four weeks to gain access to Powerplay Modules.

This is a bad mechanic; not just because of the annoyance over the time factor, but also because it encourages players to ‘shop’ among Powers, which is not good from a gameplay OR roleplay perspective. When players are encouraged to swap regularly between Powers, it weakens their connection to any particular Power, and dilutes the importance of Powerplay.

In replacement of this system, Players of ANY Power(or even of no power at all) could gain Merits for a Power, by playing inside their space, doing their aligned activities, and helping their aligned factions. For example, a player wanting Cytoscrambers would sell pirated goods to black markets inside Archon Delaine space. They would be rewarded with a small allotment of Delaine merits for doing so. Merits could be used to buy powerplay modules from specialized Powerplay tech brokers. Of course, if they have a Powerplay bounty from that faction, these brokers would become inaccessible.

This action would fortify the relevant system, directly supporting the Power in question, and earn them CC in a similar way to how Pledged players earn them CC.

The acquisition of these Merits would be balanced so that a player could buy approximately one module for several hours worth of effort(of course, this is in addition to any credits that are earned). Right now, players usually pledge for the four weeks and then buy multiple ships worth of modules; the objective is for the time investment to roughly balance out, only with more freedom in when and how to buy and use the modules. In the long term, players would actually end up spending more time getting as many modules as they want, but in the short term, the first module would become much more available. Plus, modules that are difficult to store(such as Prismatic Shields) would be much more convenient, as the player could simply acquire the Merits and store them, rather than feeling obligated to have dozens of ships and billions of credits locked up in Prismatic Shields they may never use.

This benefits the players, but also benefits the Powers, as Module Shoppers tend to haul in ways that are confusing and generally unhelpful. By making their actions directly contribute to the available CC of the Power, it guarantees that their efforts are always beneficial to the Power, justifying why they allow them to buy these modules, in exchange for their service.

Everyone wins.

Part 7: Integration of PVP. Convoys.


A very often-requested feature of powerplay is pvp. However, there are also many players who want to participate, but don't want to pvp. The answer is a compromise; Convoys.

Every week, each Power’s home system would dispatch a series of convoys to each Controlled system, to fortify that system. This convoy would carry the equivalent of tens of thousands of merits, and would be heavily defended by NPCs. This convoy would exist exclusively in open, and the instance would be hosted by the servers themselves.They would jump from system to system, taking a short amount of time in each system(as a 'Powerplay Convoy Signal Source') before moving onto the next.

If attacked, they would be mass locked by the total hull mass of the attacking ships; the more, and larger they are, the more time would be available to kill them. Large ships tend to be more vulnerable to pvp, however, so attackers would need to strike a balance between pvp and pve effectiveness. Because these Convoys would travel at a regular(slow) speed, jumping from system to system, closer systems would be difficult for enemies to attack, since they would always be under the protection of NPCs, and would get there faster. However, if these convoys crossed uncontrolled space, or had longer distances to travel, they would become much more vulnerable. This would further encourage tactical expansion; even in the worst case, a ‘tentacle’ of controlled systems would still be better than a control system totally separated from Power space.

Each Power would have their own advantages and disadvantages, which would govern how their convoys travel, and therefore, how their Power expands. For example, Federal convoys would use Federal ships, and have more firepower, but lower jump ranges. Sirius corp would have longer jump ranges but less defenses, and so on. Regardless, when they arrive in the target system, they would rapidly disperse and dramatically fortify that system.

On the defending side, all of these ships would be considered 'winged' with Pledged players, allowing them to shoot those ships with healing beams to keep them alive. Repair Limpets would also be helpful, allowing damaged npcs to be repaired before the jump to the next system.

Fortification could still take place without this convoy, and could still be hauled in solo, but if the convoy is destroyed, the defenders will lose a significant advantage. Pvp should be valued, but not to the point of being more valuable than anyone else.

The best part about this solution is that all players must be in the same instance. If the defenders are not in the same instance as the attackers, they cannot defend the NPC ships from attack. If the attackers are not in the same instance as the defenders, they cannot attack the NPC ships. There is no way to game this system by playing with your connection.

But because it is not the only way to fortify, PVP still remains completely voluntary, and no more important than any activity, instead finally taking a place of equal value with other ways of supporting your Power.


Part 8: Powerplay as a Game (the hard part).


With the above changes, we have now created a system where players are encouraged to join, and where it is better to support your own side than sabotage the enemy from within. That’s all well and good, but that alone isn’t enough; you need an actual game to play within Powerplay, as well.

Designing a functional game like this isn’t easy. It is essentially a 3d turn-based grand strategy game, each week a single turn, and each player an individual piece on a playing field larger than any other game in existence. Hundreds of board games are released each year, but only a few each decade achieve significant success, demonstrating the difficulty of creating an experience that is both innovative and enduring.

But as difficult as creating a new system is, the current system is worse. The majority of effort goes into outhauling the saboteurs in your Power, or at least outvoting them if they win. Even in the best of cases, a Power is generally voting against taking 70-80% of prospective expansions, in large part because of players hauling just for the sake of modules. The only ‘trickery’ lies in gathering tens of thousands of undermining merits and turning them in all at once.

Worse, the current system of attack and defense is completely abstracted. You don't attack a particular system, you attack the power as a whole, and hope you can cause them to fall into turmoil and lose systems. This makes it very confusing for new players, and frustratingly abstracted for older, yet less-invested players. Imagine, for comparison, if in Civilization, rather than attacking a specific city, you attacked their civilization as a whole, and if they lost, they would lose their most expensive cities first? This would feel very strange, abstracted, and unsatisfying. Or if in Age of Empires, when you were attacking your enemy’s army, rather than being able to focus down weaker enemies, you just shot vaguely at them, and after a while, their most expensive unit would die? Much of the high-level skill, tactics, and strategy, would not exist.

Most games offer the ability to attack enemies on a more tactical level; for example, in Age of Empires, you can take your enemy’s gold, preventing them from making powerful units; in Civilization, you can attack an enemy’s only Oil or Iron supply, likewise preventing them from constructing many of their powerful units. This more direct approach allows a much more expansive type of strategic and tactical gameplay, and is broadly superior to Elite’s more abstracted system.

Part 8a: Simplifying Attack and Defense.


I went over this a bit earlier, but to recap what I said in greater detail, the current system should be replaced by one much more direct, tactical, and easy to understand.

  • Undermined systems would be attacked individually.
  • Undermining Merits would be reported immediately, not only when turned in.
  • If a system is successfully undermined, that system in particular will be lost.
  • Preparation would be removed, because 5C is gone.
  • Expansion would happen immediately, after one week.

Because systems could be claimed or lost in a single week, the gameplay would be significantly faster, becoming more intense and driving greater engagement and participation. The more players can change the universe, the more they feel their own impact on it.

This alone is not nearly enough. The current ‘playing field’ does not change enough, which means the game can be ‘solved’; players can find the optimum systems to capture, and while enemy attacks may temporarily shift them, eventually, the game will become stagnant as players constantly push towards this enduring ‘ideal state’. An unchanging playing field is acceptable for games which only last a few hours or days, but the Powerplay game must be expected to endure for years, and therefore requires a greater degree of complexity. Consider games like Age of Empires or Civilization, which randomize the map each game, to ensure a diverse and interesting experience each time.

The last thing you want is for a player to leave for a year with two powers fighting over one system, only to return to find them still in the same exact fight over the same exact system, with all their effort being seemingly meaningless. This stagnation is a big part of why the game has lost the interest of many players. With this in mind, the game should also integrate other factors, such as BGS factions and states.

This would be tied into Fortification.

Part 8b: Fortification.



The objective of these changes is for players to consider the game from a strategic, geographic standpoint, not purely a statistical one. Consider, for example, Civilization; because of the way the map is designed, attacking certain Cities is more strategically viable than others. Attacking a city in the middle of a vast empire would be foolish, as the city would immediately come under attack from all sides, and would likely culture flip even if not conquered. Constructing a defensible empire is just as important as creating a powerful army, and being able to insert a tactical city in the right place can make the difference between victory and defeat.

While these aspects cannot be copied entirely, much can be drawn from the way they are implemented, and applied in a way that fits with the 3d map and universe of Elite.

Fortification currently occurs exclusively as a result of player action, and therefore certain vital systems can be undermined by surprise, even in seemingly secure locations, diminishing the importance of strategic empire planning. This is exacerbated because undermining players can remain completely concealed, even while playing in Open, since Undermining is invisible until the merits are turned in.

In the new system, Fortification could be preemptively increased by the presence of nearby controlled systems. In this case, ‘nearby’ would mean, ‘the 15ly influence bubbles of each Control system are touching’. If they touch each other, they support and reinforce each other.

Each supporting system would fortify adjacent systems, making them more difficult to attack, even without direct player action. This creates a strong impetus for developing a robust internal Power structure. This creates conflicting drives within the Power; do you focus on pure CC acquisition, at the risk of creating a poorly-defended power that will likely be raided? Or do you create a Power that is less efficient at CC generation, but which is easier to defend due to a strong network of internal fortification?


These values would need to be tested and tweaked, to find a point that is balanced and fair to each individual Power. These are just to give ideas of the tactical impact of having powers with differing tactical and strategic objectives.

Imperial and Federal systems can be fortified by up to four nearby systems, ideally of synergizing BGS factions. When fully fortified, they are very difficult to take. However, with lower amounts of fortification, they are weaker than other Power types. This encourages dense, centrally governed Powers, expanding evenly, so as to expose fewer openings to enemy attack.

Alliance, Sirius, and Grom systems can be fortified by up to three adjacent systems. When not fortified, they are stronger than unfortified Imperial or Federal systems, but when fully fortified, they are slightly weaker. This encourages a slightly looser structure, more easily expanded in thinner planes around the central Powers.

Archon Delaine and Pranav Antal systems can be fortified by up to two adjacent systems. However, they are also the strongest when unfortified, and even with just two adjacent systems, they are still relatively strong. These two are much better at having independent nodes of activity.

The objective of these different fortification approaches is to encourage each Power to look at the game in a different way, and pursue different objectives, thereby creating unique, enjoyable gameplay, as well as conflict.

Part 8c: BGS Synergy


On top of this, the range and power of fortification could be adjusted by the BGS factions and states within the Power. This would be similar to the current system of synergistic BGS factions. Each Power should prefer certain governments for Control systems(which would match their ethos), and other systems for Exploited systems.

The range and strength of fortification would be based on various other local factors as well, like BGS states and Happiness. A matching government will increase the range of fortification, while a hostile government will reduce the range. Low happiness in Controlled systems would reduce the range, while high happiness would increase it. Different BGS states could temporarily affect the range dramatically; a Public Holiday, for example, could dramatically increase the range, and if timed properly could make a massive difference in defense situations. By contrast, a Pirate Attack could reduce fortification range, exposing systems to attack.

As an example, Archon Delaine might prefer to have Dictatorships or Communisms as Controlled systems, but Anarchies or Patronages as Exploited systems. By having central nodes of Dictatorships surrounded by Anarchies, their systems might increase their fortification range substantially, given sufficient time to convert local BGS factions to support them. However, when they invade enemy territory which lacks this support structure, they must carefully analyze the best systems to make into the new Control system, based on distance to existing Control systems and the theoretical maximum strength of the new captured area. It may take more effort than it’s worth to convert all exploited systems to their desired BGS faction, especially if they expect the system to be captured at some point, so they may instead choose to capture a different system, one with greater short-term potential with less BGS effort. This in turn would force other powers to reorganize around them; the next time that system is recaptured, BGS factions will once again be different, resulting in the playing field shifting each time a Power moves, and a constantly shifting playing field.

The same systems can be used for attack, not just defense. While having adjacent controlled systems or synergizing BGS factions can help to fortify a system, having adjacent ENEMY systems can instead serve to weaken it. Enemy powers could take a system near the target system, and use it as a staging point for their attack. This system itself would be a vulnerable point which could easily be attacked, but would also weaken the defending system. An attacker might time the taking of a spearhead system to coincide with a nearby Exploited or supporting Control system going into Civil Unrest, causing its fortification benefits to shrink enough their benefit is removed. Combined, these could create a point of weakness through which an attack could be pressed. Alternatively, BGS systems could be weakened and caused to swap, again creating weaknesses which could then be exploited. To facilitate this, BGS wars where beneficial factions are at risk of falling would be pointed out on the galaxy map, helping players to find where they can go to fight to help their Power.


Part 8d: Summary and Objectives


There are two primary objectives of the new system.

  1. The playing field can be understood easily. A new player just needs to attack or defend, with little in the way of strategic thinking required. This could be either Powerplay or BGS-related.
  2. There is plenty of deep strategy to keep long-term players entertained indefinitely. Because the game board could change dramatically, based on shifting factors such as BGS states, happiness, factions in control, or even Community Goals, there is no one perfect layout of the 'game board', and many moves that can be made. As BGS factions evolve, the strategic balance of the map could change significantly over time, resulting in essentially unlimited gameplay, enough to last for years, or even decades.

Conclusion


So, what have we created?

First off, we’ve created a system where players are encouraged to participate and compete, no matter if their Power is first place or last.

We’ve created a system that’s open to new players, yet remains interesting to old ones.

We’ve created a system with depth, strategy, and near-infinite variety, allowing indefinite gameplay.

We’ve created a system where 5C is impossible.

We’ve created a system that ties into the universe, integrating the Thargoid war and making players feel part of an ongoing narrative.


TLDR:

  • By removing Upkeep, and making it impossible to take negative actions, we remove 5C.
  • Rather than using CC to purchase new systems, CC is `used to purchase bonuses for the players in the Power. These are bought once a month, and players vote on them instead of voting on new systems to take. This encourages player participation, even in smaller powers.
  • Powers can improve Control systems to improve their CC income, driving them to focus on their existing systems rather than capture new ones willy-nilly.
  • Players acquire merits from doing power-aligned actions, not just hauling powerplay merits. This means active players remain in control of the Power, while the relative power of alts is diminished.
  • Enemy powers get a one-time CC bonus for capturing an enemy system, driving them to fight, rather than fortify forever, and also helping prevent Powers from expanding willy-nilly.
  • Overhead is replaced by pirate and thargoid system-wide attacks. This lets players fight directly against it, rather than abstractly countering it.
  • Server-hosted Convoy instances travel from Power home systems to each Control system, to reinforce them each week. This offers a central location for meaningful pvp, without preventing solo hauling.
  • Powerplay strategy is redesigned to a direct system based on proper Control System placement and maintaining supporting BGS factions, in replacement of the current, more abstracted system.





Whew! That was a massive document, one I've been working on for a while! While not perfect, I believe I've reached a point of diminishing returns, and I needed to post it before I burned out completely.

So, what do you think? Would you be interested in a Powerplay more like described here? Do you have any ideas for how it could be improved? Let me know!
 
I think you make many great points, unfortunately Fdev seems to barely acknowledge powerplay even exists despite it having some of the most potential to improve Elite's gameplay. Another thing I would add is that collecting fortification supplies should not cost anything to fast-track as it currently does. Also in my opinion, powerplay should be completely open-only at least for PC to encourage PvP and player-interaction.
 
I think you make many great points, unfortunately Fdev seems to barely acknowledge powerplay even exists despite it having some of the most potential to improve Elite's gameplay. Another thing I would add is that collecting fortification supplies should not cost anything to fast-track as it currently does. Also in my opinion, powerplay should be completely open-only at least for PC to encourage PvP and player-interaction.

That's a common sentiment, especially among pvpers. The trouble is, Powerplay encompasses almost every aspect of the game, and there are a LOT of players who just don't like pvp, and never will, as a matter of temperament. While I agree that pvp should be meaningful, I don't think it should be required, since doing so would exclude this large pool of players.

That's why I tried to strike a balance. Make pvp valid and meaningful(with the Convoy instances) but at the same time, allow the players who don't like pvp to play the game their way, too! Plus, since these instances are about more than just raw pvp, it allows even non-pvp players to participate in a meaningful way, which might get them into it eventually!

In the long term, you'll end up with more pvp this way than even open only would allow.

Even more importantly, because this proposal would expand the playerbase, drawing in new players, rather than restricting it, it becomes more attractive to Fdev, increasing the likelihood of it ever happening.
 
You propose major changes that could finally make PP relevant and not just a way to have special modules. I would like FD to pay a little more attention to player feedback. I'm not talking about bugs but about base changes to the game's operation that keep the current playerbase and retain new players. What is the actual player retention rate? Powerplay like many other things in this game could be awesome but it isn't. Let's hope for changes now that the focus is just one platform. o7
 
This is comprehensive enough to warrant a beta trial.

Deeper strategy, and good robustness against 5C, but I particularly like how it makes freelancers a thing. Would be great if there was a way for Powers to advertise for freelancers for a certain activity, in a certain area, for a certain period, and be able to offer some kind of reward.
 
I congratulate you on such an in-depth document. I'll have to dig through it. ;)
Thanks! It took a lot of work, but it was worth it, to get the thoughts on to the page. Did you have any thoughts of your own? While I put a lot of thought into this, and I think it's pretty good, I'd be the first to admit I'm not always as clear as I would hope, and if I missed anything entirely, that's good to know, too.
 
I think this is a lot of re-imagining of a game mechanic that doesn't really need all that much reimagined to accomplish what it set out to do.

1. Power collapse needs to exist and be player driven, not at the whim of fdev.
2. Power promotion needs to exist and be player driven, not at the whim of fdev.

The rule for collapse should not be predicated on expansion across subsequent periods. Rather it should be based on number of control systems. with subsequent losses of control systems increasing the cost of fortifying the remaining systems as a means of simulating the loss of confidence of the given PP power by their subjects.

5th columning is a fairly annoying fact of PP but it's magnified by the fact that powerplay has been stuck in an infinite loop of impotent gameplay for 6 years. How much of a factor it would be if the gameplay actually mattered and that weaponized poor expansions was less important than defending your power you actually want to win against attack? We dont know, and so a much more intrusive change to PP should wait until that can be assessed.

I do agree there needs to be a fix on how systems are determined to be lost.

And new powers need to be procedurally generated from the factions that gave rise to them. Removing Fdev from the equation of having to create and hand-build powers.

Part of that would require eliminating power modules. Instead, PP would offer pre-engineered modules. Bonus would be if they are only insurable while you are able to purchase these modules, which would retain the existing rules.

That and PP needs a social hub within the game to organize and coordinate efforts with other members of the power. No more of this needing to manage crap in reddit. The game should facilitate the game mechanic it has implemented. Not rely on external systems and tools. This would be a place of creating not just content around goals and activities but all forms of PP role playing.

The other main thing that might need to be addressed is wasted efforts. Over fortification primarily. This needs to either be given a function that matters or be prohibited. Your idea that nearby system fortifications can spill over to nearby systems and help fortify them ok. But I think maybe more helpful in a less drastic alteration of PP would be to make these overfortifications carry over to the next cycle and during that cycle, no fortification can be made to that system. this allows players with a surplus in a given period still make use of a surplus of activity, and redirect those efforts next week to other systems. It also eliminates the common case scenario of players who dont care about PP and just want the modules to not just spend all of their merits on the nearest control system.

I dont think we need to go the distance made in the OP to entirely refactor PP to make it better. we could make that argument about the entire game. But to retain the vision of PP in as far as Fdev originally intended, that can be accomplished with fewer changes to the way it works. it was never meant to be an extremely complex way of interacting with the BGS. It was just meant as a means of creating player agency and role playing.

edit: Just to be clear, i think the problems with powerplay are less about details of how it functions in a mechanic way and more about what was never implemented because it was easier to put out something that got 9/10th of the way to what they wanted, rather than fully. The unending pointlessness of activity in powerplay is not addressed by the OP. There is no power collapse or promotion. That player agency in being responsible for persistently altering the game is why powerplay exists. Just altering the size a little bit and juggling a system or two doesn't accomplish that. The role playing is part of why powerplay exists. The OP's post doesn't get into anything about addressing the lack of social features to support players engaging in powerplay. The fact that to really engage in this mechanic that you have to reference groups of players existing in reddit or discord and other out of game systems is a failure. These failures completely overshadow any deficiencies in the minutia of how PP functions at the BGS level. The OP's post is kind of like polishing a car but the engine is pouring oil on the ground and the brakes are shot. You'll have the most interesting game mechanic that nobody cares about playing.
 
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The unending pointlessness of activity in powerplay is not addressed by the OP.

I tried to address this in the first section, talking about Politics and why people engage with it. To expand further on that concept; consider why players participate in large groups in EVE Online? Yes, there's a social aspect to it, but it's in large part due to the fact that claimed territory carries with it real, tangible rewards. By holding that territory, you are able to acquire resources and manufacture items that give real power. Territory is worth fighting over; in a direct, not abstract, way.

That's what I'm trying to achieve with the Bonuses concept, and what I believe Powerplay currently lacks. Every tangible reward offered by Powerplay is unrelated to actual participation. By tying bonuses to the health of the power in a much more direct way, it creates a system where players are actively and continuously encouraged to play the Powerplay game. The game at that point is no longer pointless; it's about fighting for real, tangible power, with different groups, with different goals, fighting each other for dominance.

That's basically the nature of politics.

And it's because of that, that Power Death isn't really a viable concept. Powers develop an ethos that drives players to join them, and helps them to survive as time passes. Even if they're soundly defeated, they still have that ethos, which will help them rebuild, and stay competitive against a more dominant power. A new power, by contrast, has nothing. I could easily foresee a scenario where a single dominant power constantly crushes new powers with weak ethoses and playerbases to ensure they constantly 'win' the game forever. Lacking the ability to build a solid core ethos or playerbase, new powers would have no hope of survival unless godmodded into invincibility, at which point we're right back where we are right now.

Far better to create a game where powers are capable of evolving and rebuilding themselves in new and more popular ways to drive player engagement.

Lastly, and most importantly, you see 5C as a nuisance that will diminish as players get more invested, but I see it as exactly the opposite. It's a core aspect of the game, and an unavoidable tenet that must be dealt with, as it will only grow worse as more players join the game. Consider that the number of good expansions is very, very limited, but the number of bad expansions is virtually unlimited. Consider that most new players don't understand the game, and, since their actions are essentially random and most actions are bad, they'll predominantly help the 5C players. IE, 5C will only get worse as more players join the game. This will result in frustration and annoyance, and rather than sticking around to enjoy the game, most of these players will just quit, because their first and only experience will be annoyance and frustration.

5C MUST be dealt with if Powerplay is to become a significant aspect of the game, and it cannot be fixed so long as Powerplay allows two things: Unlimited Registration, and Negative Action. Powers either must be given the ability to eject unwanted players, or those players must be prohibited from doing bad things. While some people have suggested bandaids to this problem, like demerits and the like, those ultimately will only hurt casual players, since the 5C players know exactly how and where to use their stock of demerits to cause the most damage. New players will find themselves ejected from the power for unknown reasons. Again, annoyance and frustration will flourish, and the game will die.

But if you want to remove 5C entirely, you need to rebuild much of the system that makes it possible. My objective is to do so with as few overall changes as possible, and while preserving the spirit of the game. Is it more effort than a few bandaid fixes? Yes.

But I do believe it's necessary, if Powerplay is to become successful.




Regarding your other ideas, especially Powerplay Socials; I actually agree with those 110%! I just thought they were enough of a distinct feature they would be better served with their own thread, so as to better focus on the specific aspects I'm trying to bring to the table. If you had some ideas you wanted to post, I'd absolutely support them, though!
 
I tried to address this in the first section, talking about Politics and why people engage with it. To expand further on that concept; consider why players participate in large groups in EVE Online? Yes, there's a social aspect to it, but it's in large part due to the fact that claimed territory carries with it real, tangible rewards. By holding that territory, you are able to acquire resources and manufacture items that give real power. Territory is worth fighting over; in a direct, not abstract, way.

That's what I'm trying to achieve with the Bonuses concept, and what I believe Powerplay currently lacks. Every tangible reward offered by Powerplay is unrelated to actual participation. By tying bonuses to the health of the power in a much more direct way, it creates a system where players are actively and continuously encouraged to play the Powerplay game. The game at that point is no longer pointless; it's about fighting for real, tangible power, with different groups, with different goals, fighting each other for dominance.

That's basically the nature of politics.

That is predicated on the rewards being a carrot worth chasing, since you aren't addressing the elimination or creation of something associated with players. The rewards mentioned in the OP seem to be a take on passive bonuses expanded and tied to a new understanding of ranking at the personal level or current state of the power.

This ends up making powerplay participation more of a selfish endeavor around what benefits (aligned with what benefits the power) rather than a role playing mechanic designed to pit players against the activities of other players. I see the OP's idea more as BGS v2.0 rather than powerplay 2.0.

It doesn't address the primary failure of powerplay v1.0 which is you can't eliminate other powers. This would be the primary driver for why player would participate in powerplay. It hardly has anything to do with any kind of personal reward, it has to do with picking a favorite power based on the role you want to play and making it the "winner" or at least playing your part to eliminate a certain other power.

The missing ingredient is not a more tasty carrot. What is missing from encouraging players is an actual point to the game mechanic. Without elimination and creation, there is no point to the mechanic. You might as well just be talking about the base BGS.

Powerplay was created to fill the void of "winning" and "losing" in a game where there is no winning and losing otherwise. Factions are immortal. The player is insignificant and can't own stations or systems. Players can't own or control areas and thus control access to things other players may want. In other words, it is about giving players "Power" over other players.

Powerplay was intended to do this without alienating players who didn't want that kind of gameplay and chose not to participate. The OP's idea doesn't seem to address this fundamental part of the game mechanic. How are players in one power that is succeeding, harming the gameplay of players in a power that is losing to them? That's the incentive for playing this vs just the normal background sim flipping and role playing that exists outside of powerplay.

And it's because of that, that Power Death isn't really a viable concept. Powers develop an ethos that drives players to join them, and helps them to survive as time passes. Even if they're soundly defeated, they still have that ethos, which will help them rebuild, and stay competitive against a more dominant power. A new power, by contrast, has nothing. I could easily foresee a scenario where a single dominant power constantly crushes new powers with weak ethoses and playerbases to ensure they constantly 'win' the game forever. Lacking the ability to build a solid core ethos or playerbase, new powers would have no hope of survival unless godmodded into invincibility, at which point we're right back where we are right now.

Powers are transient and temporary. They're not nations. They're personalities. They're cults of personality that happen to have a physical following instead of just a virtual one on social media that is common in today's world. If you want an analogue to powers with something in modern day real life, they should be thought of as corporate brands but instead of the brand being what matters, it's the person heading it. Like every power is as Elon Musk is to Tesla and SpaceX. People follow those companies more for Musk than they do the company "brand" still. Now imagine in Elite universe time, all companies were like that. People running the company can overshadow the company they work for, garnering their own direct support from followers. Utopia is about following Pranav Antal, not about following the Polevnic Justice Party.

When a power loses systems, it's less about the particular factions in control ...and more about a measure of their personal influence there.

The factions that make up a power or even originally gave rise to it, may survive (indeed, i'm not suggesting the game change how factions can never be eliminated), but the leader can certainly be eliminated. Once fallen from power, it would be unlikely they would ever be able to rise again. Even if you believed they weren't dead. Once you fail, it's too much of a public failure to ever regain that status again.

Instead, a new leader would have to be promoted. This new leader would be different, even if it came from the same faction. And with the time needed to re-promote a faction to a power, the power vacuum could have easily been filled by other existing powers.

Power Death is necessary. Just as power creation is. Powerplay requires it because powerplay requires a means of determining a Winner and a Loser, even if being a winner is temporary, if achieved at all. New competition would always exist, holding a winning position is always harder than getting it. But that's why people wanted powerplay and what excited them about the idea of it. The idea that the survival of the entity is predicated on player activity. If it can't die then you are eliminating the very player agency purpose that powerplay was trying to fill in a game that doesnt' allow it anywhere else.

Far better to create a game where powers are capable of evolving and rebuilding themselves in new and more popular ways to drive player engagement.
Powers are about specific people. They dont evolve and rebuild and change. They are who they are and if who they are fails ...people follow someone new.
The new person would be a new power. Your rebirth and evolution is something that exists with power collapse and promotion.

Without that, all you have is BGS manipulation and systems. not powerplay. And maybe there is merit to getting rid of powerplay and just building the BGS up a tiny bit.

But powerplay was meant to be different from just the faction system of the BGS.


Lastly, and most importantly, you see 5C as a nuisance that will diminish as players get more invested, but I see it as exactly the opposite. It's a core aspect of the game, and an unavoidable tenet that must be dealt with, as it will only grow worse as more players join the game. Consider that the number of good expansions is very, very limited, but the number of bad expansions is virtually unlimited. Consider that most new players don't understand the game, and, since their actions are essentially random and most actions are bad, they'll predominantly help the 5C players. IE, 5C will only get worse as more players join the game. This will result in frustration and annoyance, and rather than sticking around to enjoy the game, most of these players will just quit, because their first and only experience will be annoyance and frustration.

a. Players that dont know what they're doing in powerplay and doing random things are addressed by the support of the social parts of powerplay that have never been implemented. Fdev seems to be relying on reddit and discord and other websites to support the mulitplayer part of the game insteadof implementing it in the game. I find this social content aspect of the feature one of the most important parts of powerplay and it's absence just as glaringly incomplete as the missing power collapse functionality. With this properly in the game, players wont be left to just blindly waltz into the feature.

And by eliminating powerplay modules and making the power engineered modules only insurable when you are pledged 4 weeks, you reduce the players who aren't interested in the role playing of powerplay from participating. This further reduces the noise.

Now 5th col from random player interaction is negligible. It cancels itself out. 5th Col that matters is intentional weaponization of bad expansions. This is done by players who care about PP. There is only so many players who can participate in this and since they need to be pledged to a power they are attacking to do it, they can't simultaneously defend their power. So it's a calculated sacrifice.

If powers can be eliminated when they are undermined or retract in size too much, the importance of defending your power becomes significant. It becomes a matter of survival. The current weaponizing expansions is popular because it's all you got. With the ability to become eliminated a real possibility, the situation changes. Players have to decide if they are better positioned defending and attacking from their own power, rather than just slowing down the growth of an opposing power.

I think the balance will shift significantly as the point of the game feature no longer becomes about controlling growth, but about keeping your power from losing too many systems while forcing enemies to lose systems to take them out. 5th column activity becomes far less effective, since you can't be eliminated thru 5th column activity the way it exists now, you can only stagnate growth via it. That 5th col activity matters in Powerplay 1.0 because it's all there is. Not so in a potential 2.0 with collapse and promotion.


5C MUST be dealt with if Powerplay is to become a significant aspect of the game, and it cannot be fixed so long as Powerplay allows two things: Unlimited Registration, and Negative Action. Powers either must be given the ability to eject unwanted players, or those players must be prohibited from doing bad things. While some people have suggested bandaids to this problem, like demerits and the like, those ultimately will only hurt casual players, since the 5C players know exactly how and where to use their stock of demerits to cause the most damage. New players will find themselves ejected from the power for unknown reasons. Again, annoyance and frustration will flourish, and the game will die.

But if you want to remove 5C entirely, you need to rebuild much of the system that makes it possible. My objective is to do so with as few overall changes as possible, and while preserving the spirit of the game. Is it more effort than a few bandaid fixes? Yes.

But I do believe it's necessary, if Powerplay is to become successful.

5th col only exists in weaponized bad expansions, which can only impact growth and temporary loss of expansions. Now I did mention that regardless, the method of which system you lose when retracting due to funds needs to be fixed. The current method is wrong, as mentioned in the OP. Instead, this should be dictated by either systems that are brand new expansions first then undermined and then as more CC is needed to deal with the deficit, the system with the smallest gap between undermining and fortification.
This would the most fair way of losing systems, and eliminate much of the power of weaponized bad expansions without the need to alter the way merits,cc, and the powerplay mechanics work.

You do this to how systems are chosen that are lost in a deficit or undermine situation and add power collapse as a potential outcome, and have totally altered the strategic landscape of the game feature. And you haven't altered the vision of the game mechanic at all, you've just finally completed it. And really, i think powerplay should have a shot at being experienced as a fully realized feature it was intended before deciding to totally alter how it works based on the incomplete state it's been in.





Regarding your other ideas, especially Powerplay Socials; I actually agree with those 110%! I just thought they were enough of a distinct feature they would be better served with their own thread, so as to better focus on the specific aspects I'm trying to bring to the table. If you had some ideas you wanted to post, I'd absolutely support them, though!
See, to me, the social aspect of powerplay is not separate from the game feature and never should have been. Powerplay only exists as a multiplayer interaction and only exists to orchestrate the activity of many players for a common goal. It should not be treated as some solo player experience even if you can play it in solo mode. It should be obvious that this feature is about coordinating with other human players. It's about opposing other human players. It's about role playing, it's not about doing what you want in a vacuum. And this all should be incorporated in the game and as intergral to the feature as expanding to systems and losing them. It's not an afterthought. The social coordination and organizing is the point of the feature even existing.
 
That is predicated on the rewards being a carrot worth chasing, since you aren't addressing the elimination or creation of something associated with players. The rewards mentioned in the OP seem to be a take on passive bonuses expanded and tied to a new understanding of ranking at the personal level or current state of the power.

This ends up making powerplay participation more of a selfish endeavor around what benefits (aligned with what benefits the power) rather than a role playing mechanic designed to pit players against the activities of other players. I see the OP's idea more as BGS v2.0 rather than powerplay 2.0.

It doesn't address the primary failure of powerplay v1.0 which is you can't eliminate other powers. This would be the primary driver for why player would participate in powerplay. It hardly has anything to do with any kind of personal reward, it has to do with picking a favorite power based on the role you want to play and making it the "winner" or at least playing your part to eliminate a certain other power.

The missing ingredient is not a more tasty carrot. What is missing from encouraging players is an actual point to the game mechanic. Without elimination and creation, there is no point to the mechanic. You might as well just be talking about the base BGS.

Powerplay was created to fill the void of "winning" and "losing" in a game where there is no winning and losing otherwise. Factions are immortal. The player is insignificant and can't own stations or systems. Players can't own or control areas and thus control access to things other players may want. In other words, it is about giving players "Power" over other players.

Powerplay was intended to do this without alienating players who didn't want that kind of gameplay and chose not to participate. The OP's idea doesn't seem to address this fundamental part of the game mechanic. How are players in one power that is succeeding, harming the gameplay of players in a power that is losing to them? That's the incentive for playing this vs just the normal background sim flipping and role playing that exists outside of powerplay.



Powers are transient and temporary. They're not nations. They're personalities. They're cults of personality that happen to have a physical following instead of just a virtual one on social media that is common in today's world. If you want an analogue to powers with something in modern day real life, they should be thought of as corporate brands but instead of the brand being what matters, it's the person heading it. Like every power is as Elon Musk is to Tesla and SpaceX. People follow those companies more for Musk than they do the company "brand" still. Now imagine in Elite universe time, all companies were like that. People running the company can overshadow the company they work for, garnering their own direct support from followers. Utopia is about following Pranav Antal, not about following the Polevnic Justice Party.

When a power loses systems, it's less about the particular factions in control ...and more about a measure of their personal influence there.

The factions that make up a power or even originally gave rise to it, may survive (indeed, i'm not suggesting the game change how factions can never be eliminated), but the leader can certainly be eliminated. Once fallen from power, it would be unlikely they would ever be able to rise again. Even if you believed they weren't dead. Once you fail, it's too much of a public failure to ever regain that status again.

Instead, a new leader would have to be promoted. This new leader would be different, even if it came from the same faction. And with the time needed to re-promote a faction to a power, the power vacuum could have easily been filled by other existing powers.

Power Death is necessary. Just as power creation is. Powerplay requires it because powerplay requires a means of determining a Winner and a Loser, even if being a winner is temporary, if achieved at all. New competition would always exist, holding a winning position is always harder than getting it. But that's why people wanted powerplay and what excited them about the idea of it. The idea that the survival of the entity is predicated on player activity. If it can't die then you are eliminating the very player agency purpose that powerplay was trying to fill in a game that doesnt' allow it anywhere else.


Powers are about specific people. They dont evolve and rebuild and change. They are who they are and if who they are fails ...people follow someone new.
The new person would be a new power. Your rebirth and evolution is something that exists with power collapse and promotion.

Without that, all you have is BGS manipulation and systems. not powerplay. And maybe there is merit to getting rid of powerplay and just building the BGS up a tiny bit.

But powerplay was meant to be different from just the faction system of the BGS.




a. Players that dont know what they're doing in powerplay and doing random things are addressed by the support of the social parts of powerplay that have never been implemented. Fdev seems to be relying on reddit and discord and other websites to support the mulitplayer part of the game insteadof implementing it in the game. I find this social content aspect of the feature one of the most important parts of powerplay and it's absence just as glaringly incomplete as the missing power collapse functionality. With this properly in the game, players wont be left to just blindly waltz into the feature.

And by eliminating powerplay modules and making the power engineered modules only insurable when you are pledged 4 weeks, you reduce the players who aren't interested in the role playing of powerplay from participating. This further reduces the noise.

Now 5th col from random player interaction is negligible. It cancels itself out. 5th Col that matters is intentional weaponization of bad expansions. This is done by players who care about PP. There is only so many players who can participate in this and since they need to be pledged to a power they are attacking to do it, they can't simultaneously defend their power. So it's a calculated sacrifice.

If powers can be eliminated when they are undermined or retract in size too much, the importance of defending your power becomes significant. It becomes a matter of survival. The current weaponizing expansions is popular because it's all you got. With the ability to become eliminated a real possibility, the situation changes. Players have to decide if they are better positioned defending and attacking from their own power, rather than just slowing down the growth of an opposing power.

I think the balance will shift significantly as the point of the game feature no longer becomes about controlling growth, but about keeping your power from losing too many systems while forcing enemies to lose systems to take them out. 5th column activity becomes far less effective, since you can't be eliminated thru 5th column activity the way it exists now, you can only stagnate growth via it. That 5th col activity matters in Powerplay 1.0 because it's all there is. Not so in a potential 2.0 with collapse and promotion.




5th col only exists in weaponized bad expansions, which can only impact growth and temporary loss of expansions. Now I did mention that regardless, the method of which system you lose when retracting due to funds needs to be fixed. The current method is wrong, as mentioned in the OP. Instead, this should be dictated by either systems that are brand new expansions first then undermined and then as more CC is needed to deal with the deficit, the system with the smallest gap between undermining and fortification.
This would the most fair way of losing systems, and eliminate much of the power of weaponized bad expansions without the need to alter the way merits,cc, and the powerplay mechanics work.

You do this to how systems are chosen that are lost in a deficit or undermine situation and add power collapse as a potential outcome, and have totally altered the strategic landscape of the game feature. And you haven't altered the vision of the game mechanic at all, you've just finally completed it. And really, i think powerplay should have a shot at being experienced as a fully realized feature it was intended before deciding to totally alter how it works based on the incomplete state it's been in.



See, to me, the social aspect of powerplay is not separate from the game feature and never should have been. Powerplay only exists as a multiplayer interaction and only exists to orchestrate the activity of many players for a common goal. It should not be treated as some solo player experience even if you can play it in solo mode. It should be obvious that this feature is about coordinating with other human players. It's about opposing other human players. It's about role playing, it's not about doing what you want in a vacuum. And this all should be incorporated in the game and as intergral to the feature as expanding to systems and losing them. It's not an afterthought. The social coordination and organizing is the point of the feature even existing.

I should preface this by saying that all people have different preferences, and those are all equally valid.

That said, I find your desires...inexplicable. To me, they make very little sense.

You say that the primary goal of Powerplay will be to eliminate other Powers and protect your own. But why would that be? Why should I care about one particular Power over another? Why should I want to eliminate other powers? If they don't give me any benefits for being in them, then I have no reason to support or protect them in the first place. Only a very small portion of players roleplay to that extent, and if that is the only motivation is calls upon, it inherently rejects everyone who doesn't have the same motivations. And indeed, given the fact that Roleplayers don't particularly need gameplay elements at all, and are able to construct their own narratives regardless of the game, why cater to them at all? It seems like this is the only choice that benefits nobody at all.

You believe that Powers being destroyable will make players care more about their Power, but I can't see how this would be true. The opposite, if anything, would be the case. When your power is destroyed multiple times, as will inevitably happen if you play for long enough, your attachment to any given power will become weak and meaningless. What does it matter if the face changes, if the playerbase behind it remains the same? Soon you will no longer care about the Power at all, but rather the social group that backs them, and if that is the case, then allowing Powers to be destroyed doesn't matter at all! It becomes a window dressing on the reality; that Powers are still invincible, just behind yet another layer of abstraction.

Personally, making the changes you propose would not only not make me more likely to engage in Powerplay, it would make me substantially LESS likely to engage. I have a mild affinity for some of the existing Powers, out of a knowledge of their names and what they stand for. I would have absolutely no connection to Imperial Power #36.





What I believe is this: most players are fundamentally selfish. They will do things that benefit their character progression, to the exclusion of all else. Most players are uninterested in socialization. Most players quit the game after 60 hours. That's nowhere near long enough to become invested in a Power out of a desire for roleplay or simple boredom. If you wait for those players to come of their own accord, the vast majority will quit before they get there.

If you want engagement, Players must be rewarded. Players must be encouraged to cooperate, via wing bonuses and rewards. They must be encouraged to participate in lore events, like Community Goals, through unique modules and high credit rewards. Anyone can see the difference an engineered module reward makes in participation. It seems like common sense to me that similar methods would work for Powerplay.

Yes, you want players to engage on a social and roleplay level, ultimately. But it's critical to get those players in the door, first. If you don't get them through that door, you get no benefit from their presence. AFTER they get there, AFTER they become involved in the community, THEN you can get them into the deeper aspects of the game, the communities, the roleplay. But since that only applies to a very small portion of players who have gone through that door, your first priority MUST be getting them through that door. Getting them engaged, and participating.

And there's no better way to do that than the promise of progression and personal power.
 
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I should preface this by saying that all people have different preferences, and those are all equally valid.

That said, I find your desires...inexplicable. To me, they make very little sense.

You say that the primary goal of Powerplay will be to eliminate other Powers and protect your own. But why would that be? Why should I care about one particular Power over another? Why should I want to eliminate other powers? If they don't give me any benefits for being in them, then I have no reason to support or protect them in the first place. Only a very small portion of players roleplay to that extent, and if that is the only motivation is calls upon, it inherently rejects everyone who doesn't have the same motivations. And indeed, given the fact that Roleplayers don't particularly need gameplay elements at all, and are able to construct their own narratives regardless of the game, why cater to them at all? It seems like this is the only choice that benefits nobody at all.
The powers are part of the narrative. They still provide unique items you can buy and equip. They still offer passive and rank related benefits and restrictions to the BGS.
Those are why players joined powerplay under a specific power.

That's all that was needed for powerplay to be attractive to players when it started. That's all that needs to exist to keep it attractive, assuming the mechanic has an implemented purpose. the players write the part of the story that goes beyond just existing in their mind. It's canonical. It's persistent. And the consequences are permanent.


You believe that Powers being destroyable will make players care more about their Power, but I can't see how this would be true. The opposite, if anything, would be the case.
You care about things you can lose. You dont care about things that can't be lost. We see this across the board even in this game where there are so few things that can actually be lost. Do we care about ships and modules? No. Do we care about first discovery data? Yes. Do we care about our crew and so, are more hesitant to risk losing them? We were. To reverse that, we made the crew able to not be lose-able. Now there is no care about risking them or the effort put into ranking them up when using them.

So no, the opposite is not the case. and we can further see that with powerplay, the idea that you may lose your power and so would be unwilling to invest in it doesn't fit reality. Players rarely stick with the same power forever. They move around them all. And yet they stick with powerplay (until they get tired of it just never mattering). This is no different than powers ending and new ones beginning.


When your power is destroyed multiple times, as will inevitably happen if you play for long enough, your attachment to any given power will become weak and meaningless.
Not true and not reflected by player behaviors with powerplay. It's less common for players to stick with powers for years at a time. And by having powers phase in and out over the years (power collapse and promotion is not a weekly event, it's infrequent), players may find powers more aligned to what they like where the existing set did not.

I think it would be rare for the same player to be picking loser after loser. I'd imagine powers would normalize into a population that the playerbase is willing to sustain. This may be less than the current amount, or maybe more. Who knows yet. But it would normalize to a number that the playerbase can support and once that happens, it will become fairly stable with only strategic shifts in the playerbase, which periodically will happen, will upset the status quo.

In any case, i dont see there being any issue with attachment. Powers lasting many months to years is going to be the norm and that's plenty long for most players.

What does it matter if the face changes, if the playerbase behind it remains the same?
The face dictates all of the attributes of the power, the thematic feel for it and the bonuses and restrictions. A new power doesn't just automatically get created when a power collapses. A faction must be promoted to the level of power and the area that this new power spawns may not be in the same area that the previous one existed in. They would find an easier job existing in some part of the previous power's territory. But the founding faction of the previous power would collapse back to their founding system upon a collapse of a power. So in most circumstances, a new faction would rise if any. And this would be much different than the previous power by being a different faction. If the same faction rises, it might be more subtle in difference.

Either way, the playerbase will likely shuffle around during a power collapse. Many would leave to other powers. Others may look at this as an opportunity to dictate what the new power ends up being and leave their current faction to try and found a new one. It's unlikely the playerbase would remain the same players in the collapsed faction as who is joining the next new one.


Personally, making the changes you propose would not only not make me more likely to engage in Powerplay, it would make me substantially LESS likely to engage. I have a mild affinity for some of the existing Powers, out of a knowledge of their names and what they stand for. I would have absolutely no connection to Imperial Power #36.
You've had no choice for 6 years but the powers that exist. When players were allowed to create a new power with Grom it was quite popular. Similarly, the procedurally generated powers of powerplay 2.0 would leverage the in-game social hub and content part of the mechanic to create an identity for powers driven by the players that support them and this would be adopted by the narrative pushed by fdev.

Powerplay as it is now is a shadow of the extent it was 5+ years ago when players thought it was just a 1st step and more work was coming to finish it. The excitement and incentive for that activity was this sense of their activity mattering in terms of the powers very survival. Player were worried about going into deficit and losing control systems. It was a big deal and thus a lot of effort put into avoiding it. Now we know after half a decade that it doesn't matter at all. Nothing will happen to the power. And a large portion of the original size of powerplay players lost interest.
What I believe is this: most players are fundamentally selfish. They will do things that benefit their character progression, to the exclusion of all else. Most players are uninterested in socialization. Most players quit the game after 60 hours. That's nowhere near long enough to become invested in a Power out of a desire for roleplay or simple boredom. If you wait for those players to come of their own accord, the vast majority will quit before they get there.
They came out for powerplay for this very reason. It was marketed as a player activity vs player activity group gameplay mechanic ...entirely different from faction flipping and manipulation in the BGS.

What you are propositioning really sounds like BGS 2.0. Not powerplay.


If you want engagement, Players must be rewarded. Players must be encouraged to cooperate, via wing bonuses and rewards. They must be encouraged to participate in lore events, like Community Goals, through unique modules and high credit rewards. Anyone can see the difference an engineered module reward makes in participation. It seems like common sense to me that similar methods would work for Powerplay.
They were interested in powerplay 1.0 even though the only rewards are what you see now. The reason why that interest has waned so much is that it's a pointless neverending cycle. There is no finality. No change. The very thing powerplay was supposed to deliver, player agency and consequences for player activity, was never delivered.


Yes, you want players to engage on a social and roleplay level, ultimately. But it's critical to get those players in the door, first. If you don't get them through that door, you get no benefit from their presence. AFTER they get there, AFTER they become involved in the community, THEN you can get them into the deeper aspects of the game, the communities, the roleplay. But since that only applies to a very small portion of players who have gone through that door, your first priority MUST be getting them through that door. Getting them engaged, and participating.

And there's no better way to do that than the promise of progression and personal power.

I think you are ignoring what powerplay was before everyone realized it was pointless and never going to be finished and applying what it is now as proof for why you need to make a bunch of other changes without addressing the fact hat it was never delivered complete and the missing parts are why it is like it is now.

I can see a space for the kind of BGS manipulation you're talking about and i think that fits better as part of the base BGS faction system and is really entirely separate from what powerplay was trying to be and what it should have been.
 
That's all that was needed for powerplay to be attractive to players when it started.

I think you're missing the most important reason people joined; hope. Many people didn't join because of what it actually was, but because of what they hoped it would be; an experience similar to EVE online, where territory acquisition had a powerful impact on the universe and the individual. Once it was realized that wasn't the case, the vast majority of players quickly swapped to module shopping(because, again, most players only care about their personal power). Most of the remaining Powers only clung on because of, again, hope that Sandro or the others would somehow fix Powerplay to make it worth playing.

But once they realized that wasn't going to happen, many players(including the entire EG pilots) simply quit. If what you were saying were true, then they should have stayed. They did not.


They still provide unique items you can buy and equip. They still offer passive and rank related benefits and restrictions to the BGS.

Yes, but with no need to actually participate in the Power to get them, which is why 90% of participants in powerplay are module shoppers or just in it for the multipliers. And that's not a made-up number.

That's why my proposal will be a marked improvement; it will make a full 90% of powerplay participants actually want to engage in powerplay, because they're in it for their own power, and active participation will increase that power.

Most players simply don't care about roleplay.

Either way, the playerbase will likely shuffle around during a power collapse. Many would leave to other powers.

That's nonsense, and I think you know it. If I'm in Aislings Angels and Aisling gets killed off, one of two things are going to happen; I'm going to join the new squadron-chosen Power along with all my friends, or I'm going to quit because my favorite powerplay character, who I have focused on for the past several years of my life, is now dead, and I have no reason to play the game anymore.

In case A, your change has achieved nothing. In case B, you've actively hurt the game.

The only alternative is players who have no particular affiliation to the social aspect of their Power, but those are exactly the sort of players you don't want around. The module shopper, who doesn't give a crap about the Power at all.

Power death is quite possibly the worst possible idea you could have for powerplay. It actively hurts the game in every way.



What you are propositioning really sounds like BGS 2.0. Not powerplay.

If that's what's necessary, then so be it. Powerplay 1.0 is dead, and was destined from the start to be dead, because of fundamental design flaws. You cannot sustain a gameplay mode on the tiny percentage of players who roleplay, it's just too small a portion of the playerbase to be self-sustaining.
 
I think you're missing the most important reason people joined; hope. Many people didn't join because of what it actually was, but because of what they hoped it would be; an experience similar to EVE online, where territory acquisition had a powerful impact on the universe and the individual. Once it was realized that wasn't the case, the vast majority of players quickly swapped to module shopping(because, again, most players only care about their personal power). Most of the remaining Powers only clung on because of, again, hope that Sandro or the others would somehow fix Powerplay to make it worth playing.

But once they realized that wasn't going to happen, many players(including the entire EG pilots) simply quit. If what you were saying were true, then they should have stayed. They did not.
the main complaints player had originally had to do with the extent of player agency being limited. This extended from players not being able to control territory use by players of opposing factions to the factions not able to be eliminated thru what was assumed relevant collapse rules.

Neither of these things are part of your solution though. Players are not gaining agency in the story powerplay tells and agency over the activity other player experience.

Instead, this idea of yours abandons what powerplay was intended to be and just doubles down on what it has been left as ...and it caters to the kinds of players who it's been left with (at least those who are hardcore in it still).

Yes, but with no need to actually participate in the Power to get them, which is why 90% of participants in powerplay are module shoppers or just in it for the multipliers. And that's not a made-up number.
again, numbers that reflect the current state of a mechanic that hasn't meant anything for 6+ years. All it's good for is modules. There's no point in participating for role playing ...the efforts you put into it just have to be repeated every week and in the end, none of it changes anything.

Module shoppers have always been a fact of powerplay but that activity has generally been harmless noise. Players that randomly fortify to get their merits dont hurt anything and can be generally ignored. They're not going to do anything more complicated or time consuming than the quickest, cheapest way to get the merits needed to make it to the module.

Stopping them is not worth the effort. And their existence has never been an issue for poweplay. The only time people bring it up is out of some misguided idea that if they were forced to not be able to get the modules easily, they would play the mechanic more seriously (the right way) and that would increase the popularity of powerplay. That's incredibly wishful thinking. They're much more likely to just not try for them. So a bunch of work to make it harder to do something that doesn't matter to or benefit the feature.

That's why my proposal will be a marked improvement; it will make a full 90% of powerplay participants actually want to engage in powerplay, because they're in it for their own power, and active participation will increase that power.
You're not increasing the attractiveness of powerplay. You're just making the existing invested playerbase of powerplay more happy that their awesomeness and expertise is even more valuable and effective.

Players who are looking for modules dont care about powerplay and only bother with the modules because they're easy to get. Making them harder to acquire will just lead to less players pursuing the modules. Not more players interested in playing powerplay.

You would need to address why the players fall off powerplay.

1. There is not enough player vs player agency. Direct pvp is not what is being referenced here, but activity that significantly impacts other players
2. There is no point to the activity players do week to week for and against powers. They can't be created, they can't die and be replaced.
3. there is no social hub and player content aspect to the game for this feature. This makes it extremely difficult to get and stay interested in. The external dependency of this feature on all of the social parts of what is a social feature kills the role playing potential ...as well as puts an undue barrier of entry on interested players.


Most players simply don't care about roleplay.

Most players dont care about powerplay. Powerplay was about role playing and player activity vs player activity group gameplay.
That's why you pledge to powerplay. Roleplaying is a major aspect of it. It's not meant to be a feature for everyone.

Just like most players dont like travelling 15,000 ly across the galaxy having to watch hundred and hundreds of loading screens and doing nothing. But there are players who do like exploring and it's not a game mechanic that should be enjoyable to combat centric cmdr's.

That's nonsense, and I think you know it. If I'm in Aislings Angels and Aisling gets killed off, one of two things are going to happen; I'm going to join the new squadron-chosen Power along with all my friends, or I'm going to quit because my favorite powerplay character, who I have focused on for the past several years of my life, is now dead, and I have no reason to play the game anymore.
In case A, your change has achieved nothing. In case B, you've actively hurt the game.
It's hardly nonsense. If your power dies, your favorite power has been losing for a while and reached the collapse trigger. This is not a surprise nor something that happens to a popular power. If you're unwilling to shift to a new existing power or work on starting the next then that's your call. But it wouldn't lead to a major issue with participation in powerplay. Collapse happens when there isn't enough players to support a power.

Players faced with that decision will realize their loss and be ok with it and move on or stop playing powerplay until a power comes along that rings true to them again or just not play powerplay anymore.

It hardly means they'll quit playing the game. If powerplay means that much to you as it exists in its current state, then you're not talking about a normal ...even remotely, player. And designing around the concerns of such an outlier is not really necessary here, nor should be done at the detriment of the larger population. That larger population that would benefit from a changing variety of powers instead of the same set of 10-12 for the extent of the game.


The only alternative is players who have no particular affiliation to the social aspect of their Power, but those are exactly the sort of players you don't want around. The module shopper, who doesn't give a crap about the Power at all.
There is a majority of the powerplay playerbase that exists between the point of not caring about their powers and caring only about their powers to the extent that they'll quit the game if they're gone. Especially considering how power collapse was an original aspect of powerplay and something players who got into powerplay got into it thinking it existed. And still, they joined.


Power death is quite possibly the worst possible idea you could have for powerplay. It actively hurts the game in every way.
power collapse is an original feature of powerplay, it's not my idea. And it's not going to hurt the game in every possible way. Power collapse allows player actions to have a consequence that matters, is visible to other players and makes a difference in a way that generally doesn't harm non-participating players. It allows the powers to be refreshed over time so you dont have a stagnate game-state and this breaths life in the feature as it begins becoming repetitive and predictable.

If that's what's necessary, then so be it. Powerplay 1.0 is dead, and was destined from the start to be dead, because of fundamental design flaws. You cannot sustain a gameplay mode on the tiny percentage of players who roleplay, it's just too small a portion of the playerbase to be self-sustaining.

it's not just roleplaying, it's just built on a foundation of role playing. Most players would vicariously feed off the role playing efforts of the more extreme players - who's content and effort would be shared in-game. just like how most players enjoy and get something from the galnet stories they read and not write themselves, they would get a good deal of content and enjoyment from the players really into the role playing and not need to get as-into it themselves. Their benefits may generally be little more than the mechanic is now and the additional role playing social stuff ...but that's immersion and content that also impacts non-powerplay game activities. All of which is nothing to discount.

I think a BGS overhaul that makes the factions really matter more and does much of what the OP suggestion does but at the minor faction level without pledging and without voting and such would be good. But i think powerplay 2.0 needs to be about player activity vs player activity and a dependency on social and roleplaying features and content in-game or it's just not powerplay. Playing with the activity that exists currently 6 years in that people who remain heavily active enjoy is not how you add to the attractiveness of powerplay. instead it's how you further marginalize it into some kind of bgs flipping mini-game that tries to throw a bunch of carrots at players to buy interest in gameplay that end up being little different than normal bgs gameplay that player created factions do.
 
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the main complaints player had originally had to do with the extent of player agency being limited. This extended from players not being able to control territory use by players of opposing factions to the factions not able to be eliminated thru what was assumed relevant collapse rules.

Neither of these things are part of your solution though. Players are not gaining agency in the story powerplay tells and agency over the activity other player experience.

Instead, this idea of yours abandons what powerplay was intended to be and just doubles down on what it has been left as ...and it caters to the kinds of players who it's been left with (at least those who are hardcore in it still).


again, numbers that reflect the current state of a mechanic that hasn't meant anything for 6+ years. All it's good for is modules. There's no point in participating for role playing ...the efforts you put into it just have to be repeated every week and in the end, none of it changes anything.

Module shoppers have always been a fact of powerplay but that activity has generally been harmless noise. Players that randomly fortify to get their merits dont hurt anything and can be generally ignored. They're not going to do anything more complicated or time consuming than the quickest, cheapest way to get the merits needed to make it to the module.

Stopping them is not worth the effort. And their existence has never been an issue for poweplay. The only time people bring it up is out of some misguided idea that if they were forced to not be able to get the modules easily, they would play the mechanic more seriously (the right way) and that would increase the popularity of powerplay. That's incredibly wishful thinking. They're much more likely to just not try for them. So a bunch of work to make it harder to do something that doesn't matter to or benefit the feature.


You're not increasing the attractiveness of powerplay. You're just making the existing invested playerbase of powerplay more happy that their awesomeness and expertise is even more valuable and effective.

Players who are looking for modules dont care about powerplay and only bother with the modules because they're easy to get. Making them harder to acquire will just lead to less players pursuing the modules. Not more players interested in playing powerplay.

You would need to address why the players fall off powerplay.

1. There is not enough player vs player agency. Direct pvp is not what is being referenced here, but activity that significantly impacts other players
2. There is no point to the activity players do week to week for and against powers. They can't be created, they can't die and be replaced.
3. there is no social hub and player content aspect to the game for this feature. This makes it extremely difficult to get and stay interested in. The external dependency of this feature on all of the social parts of what is a social feature kills the role playing potential ...as well as puts an undue barrier of entry on interested players.




Most players dont care about powerplay. Powerplay was about role playing and player activity vs player activity group gameplay.
That's why you pledge to powerplay. Roleplaying is a major aspect of it. It's not meant to be a feature for everyone.

Just like most players dont like travelling 15,000 ly across the galaxy having to watch hundred and hundreds of loading screens and doing nothing. But there are players who do like exploring and it's not a game mechanic that should be enjoyable to combat centric cmdr's.



It's hardly nonsense. If your power dies, your favorite power has been losing for a while and reached the collapse trigger. This is not a surprise nor something that happens to a popular power. If you're unwilling to shift to a new existing power or work on starting the next then that's your call. But it wouldn't lead to a major issue with participation in powerplay. Collapse happens when there isn't enough players to support a power.

Players faced with that decision will realize their loss and be ok with it and move on or stop playing powerplay until a power comes along that rings true to them again or just not play powerplay anymore.

It hardly means they'll quit playing the game. If powerplay means that much to you as it exists in its current state, then you're not talking about a normal ...even remotely, player. And designing around the concerns of such an outlier is not really necessary here, nor should be done at the detriment of the larger population. That larger population that would benefit from a hanging variety of powers instead of the same set of 10-12 for the extent of the game.



There is a majority of the powerplay playerbase that exists between the point of not caring about their powers and caring only about their powers to the extent that they'll quit th game if they're gone. Especially conidering how power collapse was an original aspect of powerplay and something players who got into powerplay got into it thinking it existed. And still, they joined.



power collapse is an original feature of powerplay, it's not my idea. And it's not going to hurt the game in every possible way. Power collapse allows player actions to have a consequence that matters, is visible to other players and makes a difference in a way that generally doesn't harm non-participating players. It allows the powers to be refreshed over time so you dont have a stagnate game-state and this breaths life in the feature as it begins becoming repetitive and predictable.



it's not just roleplaying, it's just built on a foundation of role playing. Most players would vicariously feed off the role playing efforts of the more extreme players - who's content and effort would be shared in-game. just like how most players enjoy and get something from the galnet stories they read and not write themselves, they would get a good deal of content and enjoyment from the players really into the role playing and not need to get as-into it themselves. Their benefits may generally be little more than the mechanic is now and the additional role playing social stuff ...but that's immersion and content that also impacts non-powerplay game activities. All of which is nothing to discount.

I think a BGS overhaul that makes the factions really matter more and does much of what the OP suggestion does but at the minor faction level without pledging and without voting and such would be good. But i think powerplay 2.0 needs to be about player activity vs player activity and a dependency on social and roleplaying features and content in-game or it's just not powerplay. Playing with the activity that exists currently 6 years in that people who remain heavily active enjoy is not how you add to the attractiveness of powerplay. instad it's how you further marginalize it into some kind of bgs flipping mini-game that tries to throw a bunch of carrots at players to buy interest in gameplay that end up being little different than normal bgs gameplay that player created factions.

I'm sorry, but your claims are so bizarre and unfounded in reality that even attempting to argue with them doesn't make any sense.

You claim that power destruction would be beneficial, but what evidence have you provided that this would be the case? I cannot think of ANY powerplay group that would be happy if their Power were killed off. Frankly, this part in particular is bizarrely disconnected from reality, to the extent that I can barely accept that you're arguing in good faith. You claim that the group called "Aisling's Angels" would 'mostly be okay' with Aisling getting killed off. How can you possibly be serious? You then go on to assume that this group of players who have stuck together for literal years will simply break up and spread to other Powers, rather than staying with their long-term friends?

How can you simultaneously claim that Social aspects are a critical component of Powerplay, and then completely disregard social aspects the instantly it conflicts with your theories? The mental disconnect is unbelievable.

And then you handwave away the fact that said players will quit the game, as if this is not a massive and critical flaw! You are talking about changes that will literally eject powerplayers at regular intervals, and pretend as if this will help powerplay, somehow? You are quite literally creating a system that is designed from the ground up to kill itself. Nobody could possibly take such proposals seriously.

I'm sorry, but your proposals are, quite frankly, bizarre and self-contradictory, to the extent they're not even worth arguing with or recognizing.

If you want to talk more about these ideas, I invite you to make its own thread, where they can be discussed in greater detail. Otherwise, do you have anything else in the OP you would like to discuss?
 
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I'm sorry, but your claims are so bizarre and unfounded in reality that even attempting to argue with them doesn't make any sense.

You claim that power destruction would be beneficial, but what evidence have you provided that this would be the case? I cannot think of ANY powerplay group that would be happy if their Power were killed off. Frankly, this part in particular is bizarrely disconnected from reality, to the extent that I can barely accept that you're arguing in good faith.
You're not supposed to be happy you lost. In what universe does losing have to require being happy about it? That's not how losing works. The reason why losing is beneficial to games and more importantly to this mechanic, is what the potential risk of loss means for every action you take.

Every cycle is no longer just a meaningless repeat of the last one's efforts just to maintain some arbitrary bonus meant to keep you repeating the same activity over and over every week. Instead, you are playing for the future of your power. Every action each tick matters, because your power if left without those activities, could go away for good.

It's part of what made powerplay a thing when it started. It's what made players get serious about not losing and really try to keep their powers from failing. At last until it became apparent the function didn't exist and even later, when it became apparent fdev wasn't going to add anything to powerplay.

Without the risk of the power dying, the weekly wins and losses to cycles between powers dont matter.

That's not unfounded and bizarre. It's easily observed in what powerplay has been over the years. How it has changed from the year it started to how it is played now.

You claim that the group called "Aisling's Angels" would 'mostly be okay' with Aisling getting killed off. How can you possibly be serious? You then go on to assume that this group of players who have stuck together for literal years will simply break up and spread to other Powers, rather than staying with their long-term friends?

Your supposition is mutually exclusive with your hypothetical. A power with a strong player backing is not going to collapse. They would be able to do the job of holding on to enough control systems to stay afloat. Only powers that had weak player backing (in comparison to opposition that they face) would lose enough to collapse.

If the aisling angels found themselves in a position of collapse then their group has already mostly disbanded and left. They are no longer what they are now and would not be all that interested likely in continuing what ghost of the player group remains. The player groups die before the power collapses.

That's not bizarre or nonsensical. That's just common sense. A strong power with active playerbase is not going to collapse. So your hypothetical stealing of a power from under some devoted playergroup just isn't going to happen. Some players will likely hold on till the bitter end, but that's how it's supposed to be. It's what makes it worth trying to avoid.

How can you simultaneously claim that Social aspects are a critical component of Powerplay, and then completely disregard social aspects the instantly it conflicts with your theories? The mental disconnect is unbelievable.
Disregard when? Losing a power and having to join another one or work to create a new power is not disregarding social features of powerplay. Powerplay is not supposed to be a permanent set of pieces on a game board. They are meant to last for a while, months, maybe years for the strongest and eventually change out when it starts getting stale. But it's up to the players of the powers. Perhaps they stabilize and decide not to fight eachother much and it stays stable for years and years. The point is not that we force powers to collapse and new ones to be created, it's that we give the choice to players. We give the risk to players. What they do with that is up to the players.

That's what powerplay was and is supposed to be about.

There's no disconnect there. The social functionality of powerplay does not require permanent groups to form, and really, such groups are less advantageous to the game than newer groups that form semi-regularly. Established old groups are harder for new players to get into and become "important" in the group like players often want to be. Newer ones are not. So while we aren't forcing players to create new groups regularly, having the potential for that to happen is better for the game and players than 6 year old established groups are.

And then you handwave away the fact that said players will quit the game, as if this is not a massive and critical flaw! You are talking about changes that will literally eject powerplayers at regular intervals, and pretend as if this will help powerplay, somehow? You are quite literally creating a system that is designed from the ground up to kill itself. Nobody could possibly take such proposals seriously.
You seem to be under the misguided notion that some popular power is going to collapse and a bunch of players are going to leave. I'm not sure what makes you think out of anything written above that powers with a large playerbase are going to collapse.

Powers that lose would have to have a small if not completely disorganized playerbase in order to collapse. There may be a few that rage quit, but those kinds of players that rage quit at losing exist anywhere in the game. They are not the norm. The players left in a power that collapses are far more likely to just start in a different power or look to make the next one in the place of the old one or simply return to the regular game.

You act like this is not something that was part of powerplay until it became obvious that procedurally creating powers was going to be too hard at the time and they didn't want to spend the money creating manual assets and losing the use of the assets already created. Power Collapse doesn't kill itself. It refreshes powerplay when it becomes stagnate. It's a forest fire when the trees have started to die. It doesn't happen when things are healthy and going well. It happens when a power is not aligned with enough players, signaling a time for something new. It was extremely serious. It was part of the official outline of how this entire thing would work.

A lot of powerplay's failure as a game mechanic comes from the pointlessness of participating in powerplay. Nothing happens tick to tick. You just keep repeating the same stuff every week and that's because it's missing the player agency that was supposed to be delivered by power collapse. A lot also comes from buggy vague rules and a lack of social content and features in the game that are player driven. But for sure, a decent amount of PP fatigue comes from the pointlessness of the power's actions in the game. Your activity doesn't matter ....and that was the entire point of powerplay. For players actions to matter and shape the game (at the very least shape the PP mechanic)


I'm sorry, but your proposals are, quite frankly, bizarre and self-contradictory, to the extent they're not even worth arguing with or recognizing.
They are in no way self contradictory nor bizarre. I'm not proposing anything that wasn't part of the official intended function of PP (except i dont think they called out the social hub functionality).

If you want to talk more about these ideas, I invite you to make its own thread, where they can be discussed in greater detail. Otherwise, do you have anything else in the OP you would like to discuss?

I think your idea is great for player created factions and minor faction gameplay in general. It makes sense for BGS manipulation and gameplay. It's not what powerplay is though. It caters to number crunching-and-tracking players and established player groups looking to manipulate the BGS to gain personal advantages - which is basically what powerplay has devolved to over the years since that's all it offers. It ignores the role playing, doesn't address the lack of social features in game to support it and doesn't give the powers and the players participation in backing any a point for existing and a means for the players actions to be felt by others in the game. It's powerplay 2.0 if you totally forgot what powerplay 1.0 was originally intended to be and only had the zombiefied remains that we have now to go by.
 
You're not supposed to be happy you lost. In what universe does losing have to require being happy about it? That's not how losing works. The reason why losing is beneficial to games and more importantly to this mechanic, is what the potential risk of loss means for every action you take.

Every cycle is no longer just a meaningless repeat of the last one's efforts just to maintain some arbitrary bonus meant to keep you repeating the same activity over and over every week. Instead, you are playing for the future of your power. Every action each tick matters, because your power if left without those activities, could go away for good.

It's part of what made powerplay a thing when it started. It's what made players get serious about not losing and really try to keep their powers from failing. At last until it became apparent the function didn't exist and even later, when it became apparent fdev wasn't going to add anything to powerplay.

Without the risk of the power dying, the weekly wins and losses to cycles between powers dont matter.

That's not unfounded and bizarre. It's easily observed in what powerplay has been over the years. How it has changed from the year it started to how it is played now.



Your supposition is mutually exclusive with your hypothetical. A power with a strong player backing is not going to collapse. They would be able to do the job of holding on to enough control systems to stay afloat. Only powers that had weak player backing (in comparison to opposition that they face) would lose enough to collapse.

If the aisling angels found themselves in a position of collapse then their group has already mostly disbanded and left. They are no longer what they are now and would not be all that interested likely in continuing what ghost of the player group remains. The player groups die before the power collapses.

That's not bizarre or nonsensical. That's just common sense. A strong power with active playerbase is not going to collapse. So your hypothetical stealing of a power from under some devoted playergroup just isn't going to happen. Some players will likely hold on till the bitter end, but that's how it's supposed to be. It's what makes it worth trying to avoid.


Disregard when? Losing a power and having to join another one or work to create a new power is not disregarding social features of powerplay. Powerplay is not supposed to be a permanent set of pieces on a game board. They are meant to last for a while, months, maybe years for the strongest and eventually change out when it starts getting stale. But it's up to the players of the powers. Perhaps they stabilize and decide not to fight eachother much and it stays stable for years and years. The point is not that we force powers to collapse and new ones to be created, it's that we give the choice to players. We give the risk to players. What they do with that is up to the players.

That's what powerplay was and is supposed to be about.

There's no disconnect there. The social functionality of powerplay does not require permanent groups to form, and really, such groups are less advantageous to the game than newer groups that form semi-regularly. Established old groups are harder for new players to get into and become "important" in the group like players often want to be. Newer ones are not. So while we aren't forcing players to create new groups regularly, having the potential for that to happen is better for the game and players than 6 year old established groups are.


You seem to be under the misguided notion that some popular power is going to collapse and a bunch of players are going to leave. I'm not sure what makes you think out of anything written above that powers with a large playerbase are going to collapse.

Powers that lose would have to have a small if not completely disorganized playerbase in order to collapse. There may be a few that rage quit, but those kinds of players that rage quit at losing exist anywhere in the game. They are not the norm. The players left in a power that collapses are far more likely to just start in a different power or look to make the next one in the place of the old one or simply return to the regular game.

You act like this is not something that was part of powerplay until it became obvious that procedurally creating powers was going to be too hard at the time and they didn't want to spend the money creating manual assets and losing the use of the assets already created. Power Collapse doesn't kill itself. It refreshes powerplay when it becomes stagnate. It's a forest fire when the trees have started to die. It doesn't happen when things are healthy and going well. It happens when a power is not aligned with enough players, signaling a time for something new. It was extremely serious. It was part of the official outline of how this entire thing would work.

A lot of powerplay's failure as a game mechanic comes from the pointlessness of participating in powerplay. Nothing happens tick to tick. You just keep repeating the same stuff every week and that's because it's missing the player agency that was supposed to be delivered by power collapse. A lot also comes from buggy vague rules and a lack of social content and features in the game that are player driven. But for sure, a decent amount of PP fatigue comes from the pointlessness of the power's actions in the game. Your activity doesn't matter ....and that was the entire point of powerplay. For players actions to matter and shape the game (at the very least shape the PP mechanic)



They are in no way self contradictory nor bizarre. I'm not proposing anything that wasn't part of the official intended function of PP (except i dont think they called out the social hub functionality).



I think your idea is great for player created factions and minor faction gameplay in general. It makes sense for BGS manipulation and gameplay. It's not what powerplay is though. It caters to number crunching-and-tracking players and established player groups looking to manipulate the BGS to gain personal advantages - which is basically what powerplay has devolved to over the years since that's all it offers. It ignores the role playing, doesn't address the lack of social features in game to support it and doesn't give the powers and the players participation in backing any a point for existing and a means for the players actions to be felt by others in the game. It's powerplay 2.0 if you totally forgot what powerplay 1.0 was originally intended to be and only had the zombiefied remains that we have now to go by.
I'm sorry, but at this point, your arguments are so long-winded and nonsensical, that there is absolutely zero chance of you convincing me. Feel free to post your ideas elsewhere.
 
I'm sorry, but at this point, your arguments are so long-winded and nonsensical, that there is absolutely zero chance of you convincing me. Feel free to post your ideas elsewhere.

You started with a 6300 word post about a mechanic that fdev has shown no interest in for 6 years and almost certainly wont spend any time working on in the future unless it involves on-foot specific gameplay and a targetted discussion is long winded and nonsensical? Please. If you read thru the OP, then long winded obviously doesn't matter.

any discussion about powerplay like the one being made here is a fever dream that players have had for half a decade. It's not really about convincing players. It's about the imaginary convincing of fdev in the upside down version of the universe where they would actually do the things being discussed on the forum.

If you wanted it to be taken as a viable new idea and not just one of many that have been pitched and forgotten about powerplay, it would have all revolved around foot gameplay and how powerplay fits in there and left the existing space based powerplay alone - because fdev isn't changing that. But they might add powerplay stuff to on-foot gameplay to fill that out a bit and add some aspect of it to this new mode of playing that currently lacks it.

edit: but since it doesn't revolve around foot gameplay, it can only be taken as request to comment on someone's personal daydreams. My response to that request for comment is that this dream is not aligned to what powerplay was supposed to be and better belongs aligned toward basic bgs faction gameplay given how it's intended to work and how it rewards and such (minus some of the explict pp ideas). I dont find it as a means of improving powerplay directly, thought it might make the bgs manip aspect of what impacts powerplay better. I think it detracts and distracts from the root causes of powerplay's malignancy since it was launched and outlined what those things are and how those ought to function. Not as a competing daydream of powerplay, but just as a means of justifying why this day dream is not a good powerplay 2.0.
 
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