When Christmas comes, will we be able to decorate our carriers appropriately? Deck the halls with boughs of holly, trees... that sort of stuff. It's only 39 weeks away after all.
Discovery Scanner [Weekly Update] - 29/03/2022
- Thread starter Zac Cocken
- Start date
Bartender caps are relevent depending on Frontier's intention for the game. A full market could be established for materials with no cap. This would however promote farming of materials for profit. I'd argue that this is not the intention for the game as the farmer has to mass relog and the consumer does not experience the game loop.
Symptomatically though the market would just highlight which materials were rare and hard to obtain. The correct response to this is to look at that market and then adjust the availability of those materials at source. Either by telling them player base where to find them or by increasing their drop rate. Market makers and farmers therefore run the risk that materials suddenly become more common and prices drop.
Unlimited/high price caps are therefore a good thing IF followed up by proper game balancing to ensure that too rare materials don't stay rare.
The pricing system should also not be abusable to enable passing of credits between players as is already the case with normal fleet carrier markets.
Symptomatically though the market would just highlight which materials were rare and hard to obtain. The correct response to this is to look at that market and then adjust the availability of those materials at source. Either by telling them player base where to find them or by increasing their drop rate. Market makers and farmers therefore run the risk that materials suddenly become more common and prices drop.
Unlimited/high price caps are therefore a good thing IF followed up by proper game balancing to ensure that too rare materials don't stay rare.
The pricing system should also not be abusable to enable passing of credits between players as is already the case with normal fleet carrier markets.
I expect bunnies in the next couple of weeks.
Followed by open letters, and Leo having a whale of a time distributing eggs in the most appropriate time of the year.
Art imitating life…
On pricing for Odyssey materials...
I think the issue here is that unlike trade goods [1] which are primarily purchased or otherwise obtained for the purposes of selling them to NPCs for credits, and therefore the 5-1000% price range is generally fine (but see footnote) the value of an Odyssey material to players doesn't really have much relationship to its value to NPCs.
So for example, Duty Rota and Radioactivity Data are both relatively commonly found in PWR building data ports, and they sell for similar (token) prices to the NPC bartenders. But one of them has an engineering use, and one of them doesn't, so their value to players differs considerably.
I think the most interesting thing to do here would be to remove the pricing cap entirely (the pricing slider will need a lot more acceleration or ideally a way to just set a price by typing) and see what the market prices eventually settle out at. This could also give you valuable feedback - if you find that prices for e.g. Recycling Logs are way higher than you expect, maybe that indicates that they should be easier to find. If at a later date Duty Rotas turn out to be useful for something, then you also don't need to revise the NPC prices - people can just set their carrier prices accordingly.
Players with access to a carrier can already arrange to trade Odyssey materials for an arbitrary price - one player sells and buys ship cargo using the 5-1000% range to transfer the agreed credits, and then they meet up in person to hand over the materials - so allowing the Bartender Service to also set arbitrary prices wouldn't be bringing in any new capabilities to players, it would merely be more convenient and avoid the 'trust' issue of the current solution by making the money transfer and material transfer a single transaction.
(What would be really interesting would be to allow the Bartender Service to also offer direct material-for-material barter but I appreciate that would be a much bigger piece of work!)
[1] There are a small number of trade goods (e.g. Ceramic Composites) where the price range of normal BGS operation massively exceeds the 5-1000% range that a carrier can set, and a few others (e.g. Wine) where special stations like Rackham's Peak increase the range outside of it. So it might also be worth reviewing that range to ensure that carriers can match any NPC price for all goods.
I think the issue here is that unlike trade goods [1] which are primarily purchased or otherwise obtained for the purposes of selling them to NPCs for credits, and therefore the 5-1000% price range is generally fine (but see footnote) the value of an Odyssey material to players doesn't really have much relationship to its value to NPCs.
So for example, Duty Rota and Radioactivity Data are both relatively commonly found in PWR building data ports, and they sell for similar (token) prices to the NPC bartenders. But one of them has an engineering use, and one of them doesn't, so their value to players differs considerably.
I think the most interesting thing to do here would be to remove the pricing cap entirely (the pricing slider will need a lot more acceleration or ideally a way to just set a price by typing) and see what the market prices eventually settle out at. This could also give you valuable feedback - if you find that prices for e.g. Recycling Logs are way higher than you expect, maybe that indicates that they should be easier to find. If at a later date Duty Rotas turn out to be useful for something, then you also don't need to revise the NPC prices - people can just set their carrier prices accordingly.
Players with access to a carrier can already arrange to trade Odyssey materials for an arbitrary price - one player sells and buys ship cargo using the 5-1000% range to transfer the agreed credits, and then they meet up in person to hand over the materials - so allowing the Bartender Service to also set arbitrary prices wouldn't be bringing in any new capabilities to players, it would merely be more convenient and avoid the 'trust' issue of the current solution by making the money transfer and material transfer a single transaction.
(What would be really interesting would be to allow the Bartender Service to also offer direct material-for-material barter but I appreciate that would be a much bigger piece of work!)
[1] There are a small number of trade goods (e.g. Ceramic Composites) where the price range of normal BGS operation massively exceeds the 5-1000% range that a carrier can set, and a few others (e.g. Wine) where special stations like Rackham's Peak increase the range outside of it. So it might also be worth reviewing that range to ensure that carriers can match any NPC price for all goods.
Different duties, different roles, different people.
An artist not working on seasonal stuff is not a dev that can solve the other issues.
Speaking of seasoning, Kumo Burger kiosk? Going to need a wholesome, hearty snack if the bar serves drinks after sitting down was introduced.
No free mulled wine at the bar during Xmas? No eggnog? Where will I hang my stocking if appropriate sky hooks aren't available as ARX purchases?
What blasphemy is this?
A crew lounge - as an extension to the bar, but not necessarily - populated by our hired crews - would be a real nice thing to have
On the bartender pricing: Everything should be able to be set to 1 million credits a piece minimum. So that you can actually make it worth the time of other CMDRs to sell to you. Maybe even more for rarer stuff.
Also, please include an overview of active bartender trades at a carrier in the game journal, similar to the normal market, so third-party apps can actually facilitate finding good trades!
FC ATC should recognise the owner in some capacity, but many have said that already, now and in the past. But I'd like to add that the guard in front of the owner & wingmates special elevator should react to emotes, e.g. salutes, just like other on foot NPCs do.
Also, please include an overview of active bartender trades at a carrier in the game journal, similar to the normal market, so third-party apps can actually facilitate finding good trades!
FC ATC should recognise the owner in some capacity, but many have said that already, now and in the past. But I'd like to add that the guard in front of the owner & wingmates special elevator should react to emotes, e.g. salutes, just like other on foot NPCs do.
Re saluting the owner, the mo - cap is already in via the emotes, so that sounds realistically achievable.
Ships landing in our FC visible from the inside.
I guess it would be interesting.
But since i heard that selling materials to your own bartender counts as an unlock - at least a certain category of ultra-rare materials will most probably get recycled and the market would get saturated real fast.
Not at last, very high pricing will benefit (or at least have no impact) the people that already have everything and it will greatly affect the newcomers that will need materials for unlocks or upgrades/mods. And if the newcomers are EDO focused ones, they will also have a hard time to get credits unless they get deeply involved in Horizons specific money gain schemes.
And ultimately the entire market will depend on new people joining the game or rolling alts because everyone else will already have everything.
I'd second for interior customisation and open rooms even if non functional. Having ability to decorate carrier would be great.
I'd love also to finally meet my NPC Pilot but also visit the Pilot Lounge to learn their stories and eventually hire them. It would be so cool to see them either in the bar area or in designated lounge room.
Re carrier management, it would be good to be able to use the carrier for some operations like honking or FSS scanning.
Also carrier should display more information on the current system, body it orbits or the local factions. It would increase the immersion while traversing via it.
More ideas were described on: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ve-the-atmosphere-on-the-command-deck.601094/
and https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/apex-on-fleet-carriers.596028/
I'd love also to finally meet my NPC Pilot but also visit the Pilot Lounge to learn their stories and eventually hire them. It would be so cool to see them either in the bar area or in designated lounge room.
Re carrier management, it would be good to be able to use the carrier for some operations like honking or FSS scanning.
Also carrier should display more information on the current system, body it orbits or the local factions. It would increase the immersion while traversing via it.
More ideas were described on: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ve-the-atmosphere-on-the-command-deck.601094/
and https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/apex-on-fleet-carriers.596028/
I've never had an issue with being in control of Tritium fuelling on longer journeys.
Yep, then you discover you are 6,000 LY away and forgot your fuel scoop!
Isn't that already possible from the cockpit?
I agree, as long as we have Easter Bunny suits, some now Halloween stuff, more Santa suits, and maybe a Grim Reaper suit. Oh and lots of decals and bobbleheads...
How could any of this be a waste of time?
That must be because the whole AI budget goes to these guys & their dreams:Yes, this!
NPC ships stop spawning when I disembark on my FC.
pic from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/what-are-you-up-to.442368/post-9792790
Its like a futuristic Bee Gees tribute act! They are hitting those hiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH notes!
But without the glorious mane displayed by yourself.
I'd like all of the services, just because they contribute to the functionality of the FC, but...
Being blunt, both the cost of installation, and the subsequent upkeep costs discourages me from bothering. I don't have hundreds of billions as I spend the majority of my game time in EDO doing surface stuff with a bunch of friends, it is fun but credit-poor gameplay, so my personal fortune isn't growing exponentially each week. I'm not unhappy paying for the services I do have installed, so not a general gripe, they provide services I need for my own playstyle, eye-candy services are, for me, too expensive to consider.