OA's latest on future story.

[Erei]

I still don't see the point. Why force people to fight when they do an activity without fight ?
Should we force bounty hunter to do trading to ? PvPer to do exploration ? Or miner to do bounty hunting ? That's only fair, right ?

And yes, the booster is an exploration tool. Not a mandatory one, sure.
And hardpoint is not everything. YOu know the biggets slot if for scoop because you don't want to spent an eternity scooping. The next one is usually the landing bay. Which mean shield are tiny. And so you take hull damage. Canopy breach is death. Ironically enough, explo ship tend to have a big canopy.
And then you have the problem of ammo. "but but synthtesis !", that shouldn't be balancing factor.

In the end, explorer would have the hardest and most dangerous fights. Which is completely dumb. If I want to pew pew, I don't expect to find a challenge 10K ly away from sol, while doing something else. I do expect it fighting thargoids or bounty hunter or pvp, however.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I still don't see the point. Why force people to fight when they do an activity without fight ?
Should we force bounty hunter to do trading to ? PvPer to do exploration ? Or miner to do bounty hunting ? That's only fair, right ?

And yes, the booster is an exploration tool. Not a mandatory one, sure.
And hardpoint is not everything. YOu know the biggets slot if for scoop because you don't want to spent an eternity scooping. The next one is usually the landing bay. Which mean shield are tiny. And so you take hull damage. Canopy breach is death. Ironically enough, explo ship tend to have a big canopy.
And then you have the problem of ammo. "but but synthtesis !", that shouldn't be balancing factor.

In the end, explorer would have the hardest and most dangerous fights. Which is completely dumb. If I want to pew pew, I don't expect to find a challenge 10K ly away from sol, while doing something else. I do expect it fighting thargoids or bounty hunter or pvp, however.

There's always the option of running away, or not going to the part of the galaxy where the aggressive aliens hang out - same as I have to option not to go to a haz-res in a paper ship with a hold full of void opals.

However, if you DO wanna go there, build a ship fit-for-purpose - just like every other trade.

 

[Erei]

There's always the option of running away, or not going to the part of the galaxy where the aggressive aliens hang out

Go explore the pleiades or the coalsack nebula and you'll get hyperdicted soon enough.
There you go, the content you want is already there. You just have to shoot back when they scan you.

And if aliens are not your thing, carry an occupied pod around, it's ridiculous the amount of interdiction you get with them (I think it's bugged).

However, if you DO wanna go there, build a ship fit-for-purpose - just like every other trade.

Except "every other trade" don't do that. Most combat ship are made for combat and that's all they do. FdL have a pathetic jump range, yet it's meta in pvp. Fairly certain most bounty hunter are not packing DSS + largest scoop + FSD booster either. Cutter/T9 will run from a fight in the majority of cases. Mining ship will be scanned early while empty in a belt, so that NPC never attack them in the future.

That's the truth of it.

 

[metatheurgist]

I always wanted the Thargoids to be this ever present menace sweeping closer and closer to the bubble- so you'd always have a front line of systems, AX fighting there, opportunities in occupied systems for smuggling etc or people running off. For those players squealing about "bububutuubutIdon't fight' you don't have to, just stay away and hope the bubble does not shrink. Then you have to save whats important as the Goids squeeze humanity- so none of this CG like false choice, everything is driven by circumstance.

With that you then bring in the Guardians, who eventually reveal themselves but wind up being as genocidal as the Thargoids- so you have to choose who to support or leg it. On top of that have the mega powerful Thargoid and Guardian tech in ships, but, depending on what you have are targeted by the opposite number.

To bring it back to your favorite subject...I always thought the logical path was for Thargoids to become a power. They would have their own objectives, effects on their spheres of influence and players would be able to fight (or even support!) them through through bgs/power play actions. And we would see their influence grow/shrink on a weekly basis. FD could massage the story based on whats happening. Now imagine the Guardians as another power. But powerplay is such an unimaginative failure it obviously wasn't capable of delivering this.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

So because there's a few dozen systems where you might ger hyperdicted you think the other 400 billion should be an explorer's 'safe space'?

The reason the galaxy is so bland, and exploration purely an exercise in patience is because explorers scream if anything comes along that might threaten their jump range.

Fitting a decent shield and large enough power plant/distributor that you can actually boost is all you need to get out of trouble with an NPC. THAT is the truth of it.

 

[Leadfoot]

I always wanted the Thargoids to be this ever present menace sweeping closer and closer to the bubble

I had never played the original version of this game but I've seen it on youtube where you just get a random attack by a thargoid any time during a hyperspace jump. The purpose was to add a random element of "Do you survive? If yes, you get a few extra prizes after the battle. If you lose, you dead and your cargo is gone and your little dog, too!" As I understood it, they were difficult to defeat and an encounter made you sweat bullets. Ordinary weapons could fight them but once you were caught by them, you had to either fight or die.

THAT is what I had expected when FD hinted at Thargoids being introduced into the game. Had this addition been set to pilots could fight them successfully with normal weapons instead of AX stuff, I think a random hyperdiction would have been a fun addition to the game.

As long as there's only plant life, that might be hard. Maybe they could do environmental dangers, like sand storms, flash floods, fire, avalanches, rock falls, quicksand, or terrain that collapses.

Or plants that are just plain dangerous.

In the end, explorer would have the hardest and most dangerous fights. Which is completely dumb. If I want to pew pew, I don't expect to find a challenge 10K ly away from sol, while doing something else. I do expect it fighting thargoids or bounty hunter or pvp, however.

I tend to agree with this. I use an AspX but even though I've never used it for combat, it's actually capable of combat, i.e., shields, a few shield boosters, and every hard point has a weapon on it, including missiles and mines to leave behind me as I do the famous "Brave Sir Robin" maneuver. Haven't had to use any of them but they're installed, none-the-less.

So, yeah, let's see something pop up in some random system.

 

[Jmanis]

As an explorer, I'd be all for exploration being more dangerous IF there was a concomitant reward for exposing oneself to the danger. Exploration is currently exactly the same if you're 50 LY outside the Bubble or 50,000 LY - and frankly that's just silly.
Also note: Danger shouldn't only be about 'aliens with guns', because again, that's just the same stuff as in the Bubble but with a differently shaped enemy ship.

While I wholeheartedly agree, part of the challenge is that would never happen if this sort of thing were a side-activity to exploration as a whole. Rather, it must be an activity unto itself.

The reason being, having made this sort of suggestion many times before, it's met with "why would I accept even minor for risk billions of credits of exploration data 50,000Ly into the black, for a few tens of millions in reward?". The expectation in that regard would be for a reward greater than the accrued exploration data so far, which would need to be so rare as to not even be in the game, or would just become the next unbalanced cash cow. But hey, FD sowed the seeds of this expectation of income much earlier... considering how screwed up the game's economy is, what harm would there be in a multi-billion credit cash cow. YOLO at this point.

I mean, I personally think there's something invalid with that justification, backed by the mentality of "play the games for days/weeks/months straight and sit on a multi-billion credit liability i a paper-thin, activity-focused ship, instead of just regularly checking in to offload in smaller portions" but that's just me.

 

[metatheurgist]

I had never played the original version of this game but I've seen it on youtube where you just get a random attack by a thargoid any time during a hyperspace jump. The purpose was to add a random element of "Do you survive? If yes, you get a few extra prizes after the battle. If you lose, you dead and your cargo is gone and your little dog, too!" As I understood it, they were difficult to defeat and an encounter made you sweat bullets. Ordinary weapons could fight them but once you were caught by them, you had to either fight or die.

When you had your ship fully upgraded, they were a doddle. Deliberately triggering a misjump and "milking" goids for thargons to sell was a thing.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

While I wholeheartedly agree, part of the challenge is that would never happen if this sort of thing were a side-activity to exploration as a whole. Rather, it must be an activity unto itself.

The reason being, having made this sort of suggestion many times before, it's met with "why would I accept even minor for risk billions of credits of exploration data 50,000Ly into the black, for a few tens of millions in reward?". The expectation in that regard would be for a reward greater than the accrued exploration data so far, which would need to be so rare as to not even be in the game, or would just become the next unbalanced cash cow. But hey, FD sowed the seeds of this expectation of income much earlier... considering how screwed up the game's economy is, what harm would there be in a multi-billion credit cash cow. YOLO at this point.

I mean, I personally think there's something invalid with that justification, backed by the mentality of "play the games for days/weeks/months straight and sit on a multi-billion credit liability i a paper-thin, activity-focused ship, instead of just regularly checking in to offload in smaller portions" but that's just me.

Yeah, it's not like it's a matter of adding something 'dangerous' to exploration - it would need a more fundamental rework of the way resources are distributed through the galaxy. Right now, there's nothing you can't get/see/do/buy/sell within 1,000 LY of Sol, so there's no reason to visit 99.99% of the galaxy other than 'exploration'. FDev failed big time when the chose to make the galaxy homogeneous - it should have had safe areas and dangerous areas. But given that FDev didn't even manage to do that with regard to High/Medium/Low security ratings for systems it's really no surprise.

Still, if I ever find myself getting destroyed by an alien 25,000 LY from home, I'll be THE happiest explorer ever - even if I've lost billions in exploration data. And the FIRST thing I'll do is strap some guns onto my AspX and go right back.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

To get out of trouble with any NPC you just need to learn how to play the interdiction minigame properly. See, there you have at least 2 truths.

I don't consider being interdicted to be 'in trouble'. It's only trouble if you somehow manage to lose

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

I don't support the idea of having mechanics which would enable somebody to lose hundreds of systems, days, weeks or months of playtime. That's just ridiculous. I have not and won't play EVE because of that kind of crap.

But I might support something that basically forced someone to turn around. So you wouldn't lose your expedition up to that point, but after that point, you wouldn't be able to go any farther and the only place you could go would be back. Maybe something that risks your discovery scanner, and it can't be fixed with an AFMU.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I don't support the idea of having mechanics which would enable somebody to lose hundreds of systems, days, weeks or months of playtime. That's just ridiculous. I have not and won't play EVE because of that kind of crap.

Better make the planets softer then, because lithobraking is the number one cause of loss of exploration data.

This idea that exploration can't involve risk because explorers stay out for months approaches everything backwards - explorers stay out for months because there's no risk. If there was risk to exploration then players would assess that risk and decide whether they want to continue or return home, and they'd fit out their ships appropriately. But instead they get wrapped in cottonwool and treated like babies.

 

[metatheurgist]

Still, if I ever find myself getting destroyed by an alien 25,000 LY from home, I'll be THE happiest explorer ever - even if I've lost billions in exploration data. And the FIRST thing I'll do is strap some guns onto my AspX and go right back.

This is one of the most confounding things about the FSD. Why are areas locked off by permit? They should be locked off because visiting them means death. Even if it's a flash and unavoidable event, it would be better than "computer says no".

 

[Jmanis]

I wouldn’t propose suddenly adding hostile aliens at this stage, but I do think it would have been more interesting had there been a potential risk form the start.

If you want to get to those far flung systems at the edge of the galaxy, you’d take the risk of having a stripped out build, maybe arrange with other players to join you on an expedition to provide some support…

I do like the idea of potential equipment failures. One of my favourite things in the-game-that-shall-not-be-named is fighting damaged malfunctioning thrusters.

Having to decide whether I should continue with a ship that’s pulling to the left due to that rough landing, or head back and get it fixed would really add to the game imo. I wouldn’t want people being outright stranded, but having to make the hard decision to return to base.

I'd try something different here.

Random malfunctions, in any game and in any form are kinda just annoying, as they can torpedo an activity before it even begins.

Rather, the risk appetite should be put in the hands of the player, instead of just random chance.

After a DSS of a body/atmospheric ring, there should be a chance for varying degrees of temporary anomalous signals/activity. They could vary from completely safe to substantially volatile and damaging, with environmental effects or other hazards damaging your systems if you aren't carefuly. But that would be made clear from the information about the signal (If FD ever get their act together about threat readouts on USS).

Safe ones could spawn everywhere, even the inhabited universe... low-risk ones in nearby uninhabited systems <500LY from an inhabited system bubble... medium-risk over 2000Ly away, high risk over 5,000Ly away and, rarely, dangerous over 10,000Ly away, with commensurately increasing rewards from <whatever you do in it>

Maybe safe ones are as simple as a stray LTD meteorite or two, which you can crack if you want. Low Risk, you need to traverse the equivalent of a lagrange storm cloud to find <something>. Medium could be equivalent risk to going in to a damaged station. High Risk could have you getting up close and personal with spicy bois like this. Dangerous would have you enter an equivalent hazard site like the white dwarves/neutron stars provide.

Point of all these being when you drop out at the site, you aren't dumped in it straight up. You get time to assess as to whether you want to procede or not. And the rewards need to be commensurate. I can hear the people already saying "Why would you pick up LTDs and gimp your range?"... firstly, it's a shame the key to the Exploration trade is nothing but a stripped down, lightweight-everything fit. But secondly, Exploration should never have been simple "licking things to claim them as your own" like it is. But I digress. There's an uninhabited system one jump away from where I hang out in the bubble... it's been "explored", and now there's no reason to ever go in there again. That's pretty bad, and a total missed opportunity. But I digress... the rare "dangerous" style sites could perhaps feature a POI you need to scan for a couple hundred million in reward because nobody is so stupid as to try and collect that sort of data.. and the others offering a reasonable range in between. Alternately, the outcomes of these could give some other sort of data which can be traded for engineering/other services.... how about those Tier 2 NPCs... but now i'm just wishlisting.

Nothing in these should "jump-kill" you, rather, you should get time to carefully assess and risk manage... and let's face it. FCs remove a good deal of the risk of being in the black these days. That way, damage to your ship is of your own volition... and sure, a player can ignore these, but that's their call.

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

Better make the planets softer then, because lithobraking is the number one cause of loss of exploration data.

This idea that exploration can't involve risk because explorers stay out for months approaches everything backwards - explorers stay out for months because there's no risk. If there was risk to exploration then players would assess that risk and decide whether they want to continue or return home, and they'd fit out their ships appropriately. But instead they get wrapped in cottonwool and treated like babies.

I agree that tissue paper builds are not a great thing. It should have been that making your ship stronger made you better at everything, and was something everyone wanted to do, not just combat players. Everybody would be making their ships stronger. This would have helped Open more. It could have had all ships have static cargo bays. Maybe the racks could be upgraded, but there'd be none of this "racks OR banks/racks OR hrp". On the exploration side of things, maybe something like jumping to systems without a Nav Beacon causes you to emerge too close to the star/some relationship with the star which leads to a skill play that you might not get every time and if failed leads to damage on the ship. Nothing to a trader because you'll repair bad empty hops at the sell anyway, but to an exploration ship, bigger deal, so you'd want the toughness.

 

[Jmanis]

The problem with retconing any danger is that it will negatively impact someone’s game play and the current exploration system is well established. - I mean, I play ED because of it’s relatively laidback pace.

Sure, though nothing i suggested would change that.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If there was a threat of stuff like this I might go exploring https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/misjumps-pocket-dimensions-and-finding-your-way-out.535921/

A lot of ED is too simple and reliable. For example scooping- I wish we had engineering that tuned our scoops for different star types (or even gas giants), that we had to be more involved fuel scooping (such as avoiding solar flares, have high magnetic field areas that mess with sensors etc).

 

[Erei]

If you don't use a fc to get away, you are going to jump and scoop up dozen of times before even getting away from explored space. Any kind of minigame would get stale REALLY fast.

Plus this is just people who like to pewpew who want to impose their fun on others gameplay. Don't like to explore ? It's ok, you don't have to. I don't like pvp, I play solo.

Sometimes I go explore, sometimes I go pewpew. As much as I don't want explore to bleed in my pewpew, I don't want pewpew to drop in my exploration soup.


And you have to remember, all you risk in regular bounty hunting is the bounty you had since the last time you docked, perhaps an hour earlier. In exploration, it's literally EVERYTHING you've done ever since you've docked, which can be days, weeks, months even earlier. There are risks, but thankfully they are limited. Stakes are much higher, risk are lower to compensate.


As for "carebear explorer would be mad lol", I'm sure the chad combat player would be super happy to have to carry a max size scoop, a fsd booster, a landing bay and a DSS on all their ship, with a minimum of 30jump range or otherwise they could fail their bounty hunting. I'm sure they wouldn't cry and scream about it everywhere.
That's sarcasm BTW.

 

[Gut]

So it's a vid about what we already have , and assumptions of what might be ...lol .
I don't actually care about story , i care about the waste of ' space ' in game . 400 million places to visit......but nothings there. What a waste of your selling point.

 

[Erei]

It's a video about how in the past stories were more involved and with actual stuff in the game. While for more than a year, it's just RP stories delivered through text and CG. And how OA fears the "move the story forward" from DB announcement could be a disappointment to.