OA's latest on future story.

[Erei]

Except it is tiny. Thargoid space has been fully explored. If they made 1% of the galaxy thargoid space that would be perfect.

Nothing wrong with that. We are back at the "when I'm exploring, I'm not seeking combat" that was discussed earlier.

A few things :
-why exploration should be more dangerous than basically everything but pvp and some combat ?
-stakes are higher. Explorer are far away from any place to repair, rearm and deliver datas. If you do combat, the nearest station is in system or 1-2jumps away for all that stuff. And you don't lose mission progression, while explorers lose everything
-Thargoids need dedicated combat ship to fight. If they were aggressive, they'd also need special dedicated build to simply escape. They are faster than most non engineered ship, ignore shield for most attacks, use caustic DoT, resistance ignoring attack and a disabling field that will leave you defenceless unless you have a specific module triggered at the right time. The only alternative would be to spam heatsink to "run cold", but we are back at the issue with being far away from places to rearm.
-having pocket of thargoid would be real bad design for new players, who'd just get popped as soon as they try to leave the bubble to find places to explore


I really can't help but feel explorers are the focus of a minority who don't like it because it's "safe" for some reason. And somehow, it's not "proper" or something.

 

[Nadreck]

Hmm. Some of the posts on here seem to assume the nonexistence (or disappearance) of the DSSA.

Nobody is very far from a repair shop nowadays, and "losing months of data" is a thing of the past. Unless you were deliberately hoarding it for some reason.

 

[londonx]

Yeah, random malfunctions are annoying but after a year in the black without any maintenance things should start failing.

For me an AFMU could provide suitable servicing to stave off most problems, but if I crash land that should be harder to fix.

The problem with retconing any danger is that it will negatively impact someone’s game play and the current exploration system is well established. - I mean, I play ED because of it’s relatively laidback pace.

Edit: I do like your suggestions.

I think more dynamic dangerous events make more sense, the deeper into the black, the more events you should come across, after all the human civilisation would tend to grow in the most stable areas of the Galaxy.

Collapsing stars, super nova, solar storm bursts, planet or asteroid collisions, chasing comets, these would be generated across the Glaxay outside of the bubble and would be advertised on news bulletins or in-ship proximity warnings about risk to give the player a choice. Do you go there specifically to see the event and grab super-rare data/accolades or do you avoid it if it is in the way of your goal. I would like these extremes stretched more in the bubble to to bring a feeling of impact to a choice where you really do have to keep an eye out for the socio-economic states of the systems around you.

With regards to risk, it should be based on skill, piloting skills seems most obvious, can you ride a Solar storm to collect data while keeping your ship protected? Timing data collection to out-running a super-nova event in supercruise, hide on the dark side of a large enough planet with sufficient distance for protection? Landing on a comet etc, they should be uniquely dangerous and choices.

The Neutron stars and their danger/boost ability is a good example of risk and choice but I am thinking of dynamic events that really take things to the extremes of skill.

I like the direction of Odyssey on foot with its nod toward temperatures and how the terrain interacted with that and gravity. The recent update that allowed you to disembark onto an unsafe planet and take the consequences was a good move as is dying from treading on hot lava. Hopefully new planet types can add more dangers. Dangerous animals and plants with varied emergent gameplay would attract wider audience for the game I feel.

With regards to space exploration it would seem that EVA would be a good way to mix things up, regular EVA could lower the risk of high risk malfunction. EVA on a planet surface would be a quicker exercise but you could be forced to do it in space if things go pair-shaped and require more skill.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I really can't help but feel explorers are the focus of a minority who don't like it because it's "safe" for some reason. And somehow, it's not "proper" or somsomething

I'm focused on explorers because I AM one!

Exploration in ED post-FSS is spending 5 minutes looking down a magic telescope before deciding which, if any, planets to bother investigating. Then you fire some of your infinite probes in one of 3 or 4 patterns to be told where to find stuff, with a super-dooper credit bonus if you manage not to waste any of your INFINITE probes. Then you land (this bit you actually have to pay attention to, admittedly) and then interact with whichever static, inert object you've come all this way to see - despite it being exactly the same as the ones you can see in the Bubble.

It's passive and boring and a waste of 400 billion systems, but gods forbid that FDev put anything in there that might so much as LOOK at an explorer funny, because that would be 'unfair'.

 

[Erei]

I agree with the repetitivity, but I disagree with the combat fight. One big issue is the lack of RNG for the plants, it's quite sad. Obviously I also have issue with Odyssey glitches and whatnot, but that's something else.

As for infinite probes, THANKS BREBUS ! I mean, we are far from everything in the black, having to replenish for arbitrary reasons is lame. And it would give people with FC a net advantage over people without. Which is doubly lame.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I agree with the repetitivity, but I disagree with the combat fight. One big issue is the lack of RNG for the plants, it's quite sad. Obviously I also have issue with Odyssey glitches and whatnot, but that's something else.

As for infinite probes, THANKS BREBUS ! I mean, we are far from everything in the black, having to replenish for arbitrary reasons is lame. And it would give people with FC a net advantage over people without. Which is doubly lame.

I'd rather risk getting blown up by Thargoids to see something new than visit yet another fumerole.

And if having to synth probes is such a hardship then do away with probe-golf altogether and just click a button to map the planet. What we have now is the worst of both worlds.

 

[Erei]

I already grind mats for engineering, so anything synthesis is a big fat no from me TBH.
I simply don't see the fun in it. Really.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Nothing wrong with that. We are back at the "when I'm exploring, I'm not seeking combat" that was discussed earlier.

Not entirely. When one group has 0.0000001% of the gameworld, and its too small, and the other group has the rest and hasnt even used a single percent of it I think it is fair to consider maybe allocating a tiny bit more space to group one. Not because you should want combat, but because it will allow others to have more fun without infringing on yours.

A few things :
-why exploration should be more dangerous than basically everything but pvp and some combat ?

Thats not what I mean. It does need to have to some danger/risk/challenge, like anything, though.

-stakes are higher. Explorer are far away from any place to repair, rearm and deliver datas. If you do combat, the nearest station is in system or 1-2jumps away for all that stuff. And you don't lose mission progression, while explorers lose everything

But when there is zero risk it doesnt matter how high the stakes are. Again, I am not arguing that all exploration should be lethal, but that there should be a 'sub genre' of 'dangerous exploration' for those interested. The DBX was introduced as the 'combat explorer', but against what?

-Thargoids need dedicated combat ship to fight. If they were aggressive, they'd also need special dedicated build to simply escape. They are faster than most non engineered ship, ignore shield for most attacks, use caustic DoT, resistance ignoring attack and a disabling field that will leave you defenceless unless you have a specific module triggered at the right time. The only alternative would be to spam heatsink to "run cold", but we are back at the issue with being far away from places to rearm.

The entire Thargoid balance is whack for sure. I am not arguing for dumping current Thargoids in aggro mode on explorers...

-having pocket of thargoid would be real bad design for new players, who'd just get popped as soon as they try to leave the bubble to find places to explore

I really can't help but feel explorers are the focus of a minority who don't like it because it's "safe" for some reason. And somehow, it's not "proper" or something.

Thats not at all what I am saying. Just because someone says he wants to eat an apple doesnt mean he is judging people who dont like apples. Also, thargoids was just one example. There are countless ways to make it more interesting, excluding combat. Astrophysical phenomena that require pilot skill. Or the kind of attrition you'd expect in exploration that would require planning, and provide a risk/reward balance for very long journeys.

Currently my Dolphin explorer is virtually in godmode. I can crash into planets and fix my hull with limpets, cook my ship and fix it with AFMU. Synthesis provides infinite AFMU/limpet ammo. Fuel is infinite with a scoop. So even when getting damaged is already incredibly easy to avoid, it doesnt even matter if it does happen. To me every aspect of ED should provide some challenge, and exploration simply does not. Its like Star Trek, but where every episode is just Kirk making pictures of nice planets for his photo album with nothing else happening.

Space exploration is a hugely interesting genre to so many people, and ED currently only provides the most, well, bland version possible. Its more akin to tourism than exploration, really. Its relaxing to me at times with some nice background music and a drink, but I feel they can add more flavours.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don't think the problem with explorers has much to do with danger, but more with the general lack of challenges (other than patience and perseverance).

Though they are related. To me, if there are no stakes involved at all challenges become more meaningless. Doesnt have to be 'succeed or die', but some sort of consequence for failure is welcome to me.

It saddens me that when you mention challenges, most people immediately think only of combat.

I think most in this topic use combat just as one example, and others have been suggested too.

 

[Red Anders]

Exploration has actually got much safer over time. I still remember the brown trousers moment of dropping into a system right between the two stars in a binary pair and discovering you're scooping from the one behind you Even that was removed from the game ages ago since the game will now drop you in a safe distance away. About the only significant risk these days is falling asleep whilst jumping into a white dwarf system.

 

[Erei]

I don't see the issue ? Exploration is not even the safest job around, I'd say it's mining. Once you know NPC won't scan you a second time, all you have to do is be scanned empty. GG, no pirates attack, enjoy.
Traders is not super hard either.

Exploration has actually got much safer over time. I still remember the brown trousers moment of dropping into a system right between the two stars in a binary pair and discovering you're scooping from the one behind you Even that was removed from the game ages ago since the game will now drop you in a safe distance away. About the only significant risk these days is falling asleep whilst jumping into a white dwarf system.

Happened to me about a month ago ? On my last exploration trip. Jump right in front of a star, realize there is another nearby, and the scoop switch from one star to the next. Glad I wasn't asleep. Even though, heat damage is highly overrated IMO.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Exploration has actually got much safer over time. I still remember the brown trousers moment of dropping into a system right between the two stars in a binary pair and discovering you're scooping from the one behind you Even that was removed from the game ages ago since the game will now drop you in a safe distance away. About the only significant risk these days is falling asleep whilst jumping into a white dwarf system.

It also had the concept of attrition. The occasional sloppy 1% damage added up over the weeks. Many came back after months of exploration with damaged hulls and modules. AFMU and repair limpets completely removed that. I literally dont care if I crash into a star, beyond the small and annoying delay.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don't see the issue ?

That is okay, but it doesnt mean others dont see it. You like it very safe. Perfectly fine. Others dont. Also fine. This discussion is about ways to create additional experiences that can be fun. Constantly repeating how much you are already liking it and how you dont want change isnt really adding much to the discussion, to be honest. Just like I wont go into discussions about what would be a cool new ship and repeat over and over how cool the Adder is. Not because the opinion is 'wrong' but because it adds nothing.

 

[Red Anders]

I don't see the issue ? Exploration is not even the safest job around, I'd say it's mining. Once you know NPC won't scan you a second time, all you have to do is be scanned empty. GG, no pirates attack, enjoy.
Traders is not super hard either.

Happened to me about a month ago ? On my last exploration trip. Jump right in front of a star, realize there is another nearby, and the scoop switch from one star to the next. Glad I wasn't asleep. Even though, heat damage is highly overrated IMO.

I've been dropped in close to a pair, haven't been dropped in between a close pair like this* for maybe three years now.

*This is where the illustrative screenshot would appear but I just realised it's on my old hard drive. Sorry about that lol.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I've been dropped in close to a pair, haven't been dropped in between a close pair like this* for maybe three years now.

*This is where the illustrative screenshot would appear but I just realised it's on my old hard drive. Sorry about that lol.

This was part of the fix for WDs if I remember correctly. With the new system you cannot be directly thrown into the cone of them and just die, but you also dont run into the less-lethal but still exciting things you describe. You still can be thrown close to two or three stars, but it is far less risky.

 

[Erei]

That is okay, but it doesnt mean others dont see it. You like it very safe. Perfectly fine. Others dont. Also fine. This discussion is about ways to create additional experiences that can be fun. Constantly repeating how much you are already liking it and how you dont want change isnt really adding much to the discussion, to be honest. Just like I wont go into discussions about what would be a cool new ship and repeat over and over how cool the Adder is. Not because the opinion is 'wrong' but because it adds nothing.

"If it's not broken, don't fix it". What people are asking in this thread is to change how exploration works. Not improve it or fix some issues it may have, but to literally change how it works.
It's not even because it's not popular at all, so it's in dire need of help. No, it's working as is, and some amount of people are enjoying it the way it is. Could it be better ? Yes. Does it have bugs or issues ? I mean, what doesn't in this game ?

 

[Red Anders]

This was part of the fix for WDs if I remember correctly. With the new system you cannot be directly thrown into the cone of them and just die, but you also dont run into the less-lethal but still exciting things you describe. You still can be thrown close to two or three stars, but it is far less risky.

Yeah, now you've said it that does ring a bell as being what prompted it.

 

[Nadreck]

An easy fix would be for FDev to add a second (or more) Thargoid region. Not necessarily something directly dangerous to the CMDR who discovers it, but something worth reporting back to the community.

Yes, i just don't get why the Thargoids only exist suspiciously close to the Bubble. Even if they came from around here, they've had millions of years to spread out, they should be all over the galaxy by now. They seem to have a fondness for nebulae, but they should be in big nebulae far from the Bubble.

At least Frontier have given us some Guardian ruins in more distant parts of the galaxy (though not many, which does raise the question of why all three of the known spacefaring civilisations are concentrated so close together).

 

[He$$eeTant]

Exploration lost 90% of its danger with repair limpits and explorers anchorage. Now with fleet carriers there is no danger at all. While it could be possible to lose EA to an attack I can’t see FCs being taken away. There is a very low “Galaxy Explored” number that usually gets trotted out on threads like this, even if you are sceptical of the number and double it it’s still a small % so if FDEV where to tuck something away to be discovered chances are if it’s way out in the black it won’t be discovered.

Trying to think of some new unfixable but avoidable risk to add to the game is beyond me - as was mentioned earlier perhaps witch space should make a comeback as that would negate FCs, repair limpits and EA all in one go.

 

[lulmibel]

Well it would be nice to see or meet new species (not only hostile) in game. I want to remind that we have lot of regions/sectors in the galaxy that are locked without any reason.
I guess that:
1. they are playground for game testing live test, accesible by devs/staff only
2. those regions simply doesn's exist, something was went wrong and stars are only view generated
3. regions are bugged ?
4. i want to belive that those regions hide big suprices releated to story. new species etc