What makes a good FPS - Your Top 3?

My favorite FPS of all time was Battlefield 2142 (note: 2142, not 2042!). What's interesting to me about this is;

  • The graphics were nothing to write home about, and I was lucky to get 30 fps anyway.
  • There was quite a small selection of weapons and other equipment. There were also very few "achievements" to be earned.

But it was great becuse

  • It had a great internal balance - everything had its place, nothing was OP.
  • Roles meant something.
  • The Titan Assault mode was a master-piece of game design, offering scope of different strategies and very often coming down to a close finish.

The On-foot CZs in Elite are utterly simplistic. There are no roles, there is no scope for tactics, and there is no internal balance either.

I think the problem is that it doesn't know if it wants to be single player, co-op, or team vs team. As a result, I doubt it does any of them well (although I never saw another player in a CV). It should pick one, and focus on it. That's why I think On-foot Thargoid fights could be very interesting - it pushes it toward co-op play. (And lets face it, Elite is never going to be able to complete with games like Battlefield for team vs team FPS)
 
I still don't understand why Elite had to have a FPS bolted onto it to begin with. A tremendous amount of work went into gameplay that has nothing to do with flying space ships in the traditional Elite fashion. I personally wish all that effort would have gone into making Elite a better space game instead.
 
I still don't understand why Elite had to have a FPS bolted onto it to begin with. A tremendous amount of work went into gameplay that has nothing to do with flying space ships in the traditional Elite fashion. I personally wish all that effort would have gone into making Elite a better space game instead.
I think most of us agree. I ended up with it because I pre-ordered thinking it would be a great addition and add to the game I love. When I got it it was so far from ED I just stopped playing.

Fast forward to today and I thought heck I’ve got it. As a child I had crap toys but I made the most of them. Same thinking here - it’s yours play it and see what’s what. I started with missions and found them a bit meh. I then found CZs and they are a riot. The disinformation around CZs on this forum is rife and the grey area is people are talking about the whole game and not just the CZs.

My reason for starting the thread is to see what people think as the gold standard in FPS. As it happens I’ve played around 75% of what’s discussed here. I think CZs are as fun as most but I can see they won’t have the longevity of some other FPS and I think the Achilles heel is that there is no story, no narrative that the individual can enjoy and explore at their pace which takes them through the game.
 
I still don't understand why Elite had to have a FPS bolted onto it to begin with. A tremendous amount of work went into gameplay that has nothing to do with flying space ships in the traditional Elite fashion. I personally wish all that effort would have gone into making Elite a better space game instead.
True,if all you ever wished to do is fly around in a space ship with your rear end bolted to a chair, there is not any reason to add perambulation, I guess.
Oddly, I thought combat was a big part of ED, in one form or another, so adding new options was moving forward.

Never mind, buying the expansion is optional, isn't it?
 
No, we have kill zones with randomly appearing enemies from any side.
The enemies appearing randomly would be an improvement - in most good shooters the enemy spawn areas are extremely dangerous places to be in. In elite they drop into open areas (with 2-3 exceptions across all settlements) with no cover and the AI takes seconds to decide to target you during which you can mow them down (especially with rocket launchers).

I assume only having one CZ game mode also comes down to AI coding (and testing). What we have now is probably the easiest one to code - "shoot enemy dudes and weigh going to one of these control point areas highly". Anything more complex like allocating resources to push to secure an objective and hold it is trickier and requires the AI to plan and react as a team. The map design of the settlements wouldn't really facilitate any of this as due to the chaotic, fast paced and cramped nature of things there's no significant terrain advantage or places that are easier to defend/safe approaches to objectives worth taking. It's also balanced such that on even slightly larger settlements its often impossible to stop the AI from capping a point if they spread out in multiple squads (since you don't control what your teams AI does).

I still don't understand why Elite had to have a FPS bolted onto it to begin with. A tremendous amount of work went into gameplay that has nothing to do with flying space ships in the traditional Elite fashion. I personally wish all that effort would have gone into making Elite a better space game instead.
Pragmatically it could be an excuse to spend a lot of time working on more detailed planetary environments and rework the graphics engine a lot. Space legs was also a much requested feature as ill-advised as calls for it might have been.

There are good moments in odyssey that show off the awesome scale of the ships and I guess stuff like that does help make the world feel more real. The end result wasn't really worth the effort due to Odyssey's many failings and the expansion should've included at least some new space content, but a lot of this is also said in hindsight.
 
My reason for starting the thread is to see what people think as the gold standard in FPS. As it happens I’ve played around 75% of what’s discussed here. I think CZs are as fun as most but I can see they won’t have the longevity of some other FPS and I think the Achilles heel is that there is no story, no narrative that the individual can enjoy and explore at their pace which takes them through the game.
On that specific topic, my problem with Odyssey's CZs from a design perspective is that they are using a PvP model that ends up being mostly PvE gameplay in practice. I enjoy capture the flag, escort missions, holding control points, etc, but no AI can replicate the tactical and strategical gameplay of two or more teams of humans in a PvP match. If Frontier was set on bringing an FPS into the Elite franchise, I'd rather they had copied Mass Effect's gameplay.

And while Odyssey supports PvP gameplay (in theory), it's just not going to happen organically. The best Frontier can do is build community goals specifically to pull players to one of thousands of CZs where you might get some "matches" that are more PvP than PvE.
 
Yes, it is an optional expansion, but there is no alternative DLC. I wonder if/when the next DLC comes out, how optional Odyssey will be at that point.
Not at all, if Frontier has any business sense. (Although I believe EDO to be the final expansion)

But the main objectors to EDO have insisted they will only play Horizons, so further on-foot incorporating expansions would be of no interest to them, as they would include all they abhor from the EDO expansion.
 
Not at all, if Frontier has any business sense. (Although I believe EDO to be the final expansion)

But the main objectors to EDO have insisted they will only play Horizons, so further on-foot incorporating expansions would be of no interest to them, as they would include all they abhor from the EDO expansion.
Sadly I fear you may be right with this being the last expansion, however I will clutch at the last straw of hope, from the Video somebody posted when they directors had their end of year financial meeting, where the Lord Brabus said, roughly 'I told you it was a bit like an oil tanker, it would take ages to turn around, but at least we are now pointing in the right direction'. This give me hope that all is not yet foresaken
EDIT: Although, as long as the servers stay online, I'm happy
 
but no AI can replicate the tactical and strategical gameplay of two or more teams of humans in a PvP match.
I think that comment is premature - at least for me as I hope to have another 30 odd yrs on this planet and fully expect it to be better/faster than any human. That said they have done an extremely good job of it so far. ex.

1) Shoot an NPC in open ground, it will turn and fire on you. Furthermore it "may" track you down and even get another NPC to flank you - unpredictable.
2) Dont shoot that same NCP, it will 75-90% of the time run to the next control point to attack or claim it - this is the most important aspect of the CZ win control points to continue the supply/respawn of your team. The other % it will turn and shoot you - unpredictable.

You should buy a copy and give it a go.
 
The ultimate pinnacle of FPS design:

10 minute non-interactive Apex loading screens
Heavy grind for competitive weapons
Fuse weapon attachments with weapons forever
No way to bypass the grind by looting dropped guns
No skill-shot multipliers when target's shielded
Bullet sponginess
Constant need to switch weapons
Projectile velocities rivaling thrown rocks
No far-out sci-fi weapon concepts
Hand-held guns stronger than ship-mounted ones

Naturally, there can be only one top contender here.

PS: Top FPS of all times is UT'99 imo. It's very fast-paced, characters are highly mobile thanks to the dodging mechanic (which could even be explained by jump-pack assisted directional boosts in OD), weapons are very varied in terms of usage and very powerful, TTKs are low even for the most shielded entities. There is no grind, just a high skill ceiling.
 
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I think that comment is premature - at least for me as I hope to have another 30 odd yrs on this planet and fully expect it to be better/faster than any human.
But I don't want the AI to be better and faster than any human. This is my primary complaint about the ship AI in Elite - NPCs feel like autopilots more than they feel like real people flying a spaceship. People are not perfect, far from it, and that's part of the fun. The only time an AI should feel like a robot is when we're fighting actual robots.

Now someday, perhaps with neural network hardware, game AI will simulate thinking, feeling, fallible (but not in a dumb standing on chairs sort of way) people, in which case I'll never need to play an online game ever again :D

You should buy a copy and give it a go.
No thank you. I've seen more than enough videos to know it's not something I'm going to enjoy. Remember, I'm one of the guys campaigning to keep Odyssey code out of Horizons, and that would be free!

(That's not to say I'll never buy Odyssey.)

But as long as we're selling each other games, have you ever heard of Space Engineers? ;)
 
Sadly I fear you may be right with this being the last expansion, however I will clutch at the last straw of hope, from the Video somebody posted when they directors had their end of year financial meeting, where the Lord Brabus said, roughly 'I told you it was a bit like an oil tanker, it would take ages to turn around, but at least we are now pointing in the right direction'. This give me hope that all is not yet foresaken
EDIT: Although, as long as the servers stay online, I'm happy
Only time will tell where ED is going, but while it still is, I'll elect to enjoy the messing around in ships / on-foot I have been doing with my small group of in-game friends.

You wouldn't have a link to that viedo would you?
 
Only time will tell where ED is going, but while it still is, I'll elect to enjoy the messing around in ships / on-foot I have been doing with my small group of in-game friends.

You wouldn't have a link to that viedo would you?

Think this is the right one
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZQODnhlYto

EDIT: It's not the most fascinationg of watches, in fact it's as 'dry as a witch’s chickadee, as the old saying goes
 
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It has to be fun, it has to be engaging and well balanced. You can argue till you're blue in the face whether a game has leaning, body dragging, ect... But all that is window dressing.

One of the best FPS games I played and had the most fun at was Battlefield Bad Company 2, the Vietnam DLC. Limited weapons, limited maps, no prone but we had the most fun every weekend mornings killin and chillin. For me, I like to play with and against my friends. Playing against AI is not my thing.
I loved BC2: Vietnam. You can still find active servers for the base game, but not really for Vietnam, sadly. But BC2 is my favourite BF game. It's still fun today. Certain aspects seem a little dated, but it got the formula and balance right in terms of map design, game modes, gunplay, atmosphere, and just the right amount of depth without being overly complicated or bloated. Best Rush maps in the series!
 
I for one very much like EDO's on-foot combat mechanics.

Things I like:
  1. Limited weapon load-outs
  2. Each weapon having pros and cons that need to be weighed up when creating load-outs for the task at hand
  3. Resource management
  4. Environmental hazards (such as unsafe temperatures causing health drain) on top of straight up enemy threat that mixes things up and keeps things fresh when you encounter them
  5. The CZ game-play in general
  6. The flexibility in the design of the general missions affording the ability to turn things around and recover if something goes wrong
  7. The tools and associated game-play
Things I don't like:
  1. Technical performance; frame rate is pretty damn important
  2. Not happy with the rocket launcher; seems too easy to use for how effective it is
  3. CZs pay too much for a game mode that effectively has no penalty for death
  4. There is effectively no penalty for death in CZs
Things I wish for:
  1. Ability to peek from cover/around corners the way you could in games like System Shock 2
  2. Body dragging
  3. More variety within each mission category
    1. Procedural elements in base layout would be welcome (the modules are fine but having the modules laid out a little less predictably would be good)
  4. A kinetic shotgun and a proper sniper rifle (Thermal/kinetic railgun? Would have to have severe usage limitations like very low max ammo and single shot per reload to counter accuracy and high damage)
  5. Mega ship/derelict ship/derelict station infiltration
 
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I still don't understand why Elite had to have a FPS bolted onto it to begin with. A tremendous amount of work went into gameplay that has nothing to do with flying space ships in the traditional Elite fashion. I personally wish all that effort would have gone into making Elite a better space game instead.
Because for some of us Elite isn't about being a ship. It's about being a person who, a lot of the time, is in command of a ship.
 
My favorite was the Desert Combat mod for the original Battlefield 1942. MASSIVE maps, 64 players, most vehicles, planes, helicopters, tanks, etc. were drivable, lots of bushes and rocks for a sniper to hide under ... 15 years ago.
 
I still don't understand why Elite had to have a FPS bolted onto it to begin with. A tremendous amount of work went into gameplay that has nothing to do with flying space ships in the traditional Elite fashion. I personally wish all that effort would have gone into making Elite a better space game instead.

I actually have mixed feelings on that. On one hand, i could just dig out many of my old postings on space legs, and plaster this place with piles of "told you so". As it was very obvious for me, that an FPS module added to ED would be compared to other FPS games out there, and would quite certainly fall vastly behind.

In hindsight when looking at all the many threads: no surprise there, but in my grand (cough) prophetic powers, i have predicted this to happen many years back in very old space legs threads.

At the same time, i can't really condemn the idea. Would FD have taken some more time and done things well, they could have proven me wrong. Badly. My "prophetic powers" were not so much on the potential of the idea, but rather on how FD implements things: barebone.

I do see the potential of space legs. I mean, imagine the first Star Wars movie (the actually first one, called "A New Hope", not the other garbage), with Han never leaving the Falcon. Imagine the epic scene, where Luke and Obi Wan go to a terminal and set up "wanted persons need a flight from the planet" announcement. The grand scene where Greebo looks at the ship, looks at his blaster pistol and leaves again. The great part where Han and Chewie sit in the Falcon on board of the Death Star, watching their panels and waiting for their passengers to tell them that they can launch again.

Now change the focus to the Expanse, how great would that have been if the crew never left the ship, but rather just got a text message on what the ship has found in their surroundings. Think about Firefly and how awesome it would have been when all the characters always sat on board of the ship and only interacted with the rest of the world over a terminal...

Being able to leave the ship and do things outside of it theoretically add a lot of possibilities. It really opens up the world. And as the world outside of your ship also can hold some danger, combat must be possible and can add a lot to the world.

And i say that as somebody who currently, when playing ED, again never leaves his ship. Because while leaving the ship has a lot of potential, Odyssey does not use any of it. It merely gave us a few minimal breadcrumbs of gameplay and then called it a day. In their infinite wisdom, FD decided that if the game had enough problems, they could keep us busy without needing actual content. They miiight have been slightly wrong, though.

Just to write another random example on what could even be done with the mission chain mechanics we actually have, by merely adding a few text messages.

Picking up a "recovery" mission, which has a text part along the line of "Pirates abducted our brother and will sell him into slavery. We want to hire a spaceship with pilot to rescue him".
1. Mission sends you to space, to interdict a ship. Use hatch breaker, collect the container with a slave.
1a: Jackpot! It is who they wanted. Go to step 3
1b: Not the jackpot. The slave is another person, but he can tell you where the pirates have their hideout. Going on.
2. Mission changes to "land near ground base of pirates". The group of brothers then leaves the ship and heads towards the pirate base.
2a: Optional objective: "Cover us while we attack the pirates!". Get your SRV and destroy turrets and pirates running around in the open.
2b: Optional problem: "The pirates called for support!". A small combat spaceship turns up over the base. You better lift off and destroy it, before it shoots your parked ship to bits.
2c: Optional objective: "Clear the way!". Some pirates stealthed (technically spawned) to the extraction point. Eliminate them or at least give them heat till the brothers return with their rescued brother and make it on board of the ship.
3. "Now let's get the hell out of here!". Fly to a starport of choice. Perhaps the one you started from.
3a: Optional objective: Some pirate ships are on your trail and interdict you. Eliminate them.
4. Cash in. Profit! And be happy that you did not just "steal random red herring" from a base, but you actually got a story along with it.

And almost all of that the current system already supports. I am merely not 100% certain on the brothers attacking the ground station. But as ground CZs can handle spawn points and factions of NPCs fighting each other, that also should be fine.

And this is merely something i threw together in a few minutes, most of it being missions which in one way or another already exist, just chained together... and mission chains are also something the system can do. The only really new stuff would be the more info on why something would be done. So the "trick" is merely to not just describt the actions, but also add an agenda to them, no matter how basic if still is.

And yes, of course, this also is not "unlimited content". Even if you write dozens of such adds-agenda-to-the-task pieces of text, it'll get stale after a few hundred missions. Which is hundreds of interesting missions more than we currently have, though. :)
 
For me the issue with EDO is that the gunplay is very dull, the AI is poor, the weapons are insipid and the settlement maps are very small and bland. Oh, and the menu wheels are very clumsily implemented, despite this being a standard feature in countless other games!

I feel that trying to mimic the ship combat (laser for shields, kinetic for armour, plasma as a halfway house) was a mistake. It doesn't create interesting gunplay and switching weapons constantly is just annoying. I think shields should be something that you have to use very tactically, maybe lasting just a few seconds before activating a cooldown, rather than something you have constantly on.

Also having ammo, med pack and energy cell crates and explosive barrels spread across the settlements feels very gamey and dated. I'm also not a fan of constantly having to recharge my suit, it's just annoying and detracts from the action.

And the CZ zones feel like a poor-mans version of domination from games like COD and Battlefield, which do that so much better. But I guess it's always going to be more interesting when you're up against human players instead of bots.

As a fan of games like Insurgency, Battlefield, Red Orchestra/Rising Storm, etc, I'd love to see more objective-based gameplay for attacking or defending settlements. But that would probably require a lot of work to get right.
 
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