Open POI sharing system idea

Orvidius

Orvidius

NOTE: The project is underway, and you should probably view the current Galactic Exploration Catalog thread.

Original post:

With the GMP moving into maintenance mode, I've been kicking the idea around of creating a crowdsourced POI system on EDAstro. The focus would be very different than what the GMP has been, since the idea would be for everyone to create their own POIs to share, and then everyone could vote on them, resulting in scores that can be used to filter the list or highlight particularly good POIs.

Here's what I've been thinking:
  • Accounts can create/edit their own POIs
  • Everyone can rate other POIs with 1-5 stars
  • Designated curators also vote on POIs
  • POIs receive scores based on number and quality of votes.
  • POIs have two scores- One from curators, one from everyone else.

Nothing is set in stone, and I'm just throwing around ideas at the moment. Before starting on something like that, I want to make sure I'm not duplicating effort, so whether Anthor helps with a project on EDSM is something I'd like to consider. Or, if someone else is already planning to make something like this, let me know.

A necessary first step is account management, registration, and logins, and I have that part working on EDAstro now.
 
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marx

marx
I like the idea. More openness and automation should be good, while it would still retain a manually curated selection of POIs, without making it a walled garden. Automation helps lessen the manual workload, openness helps avoid confusion and rumours. However, curating is a good idea, don't get me wrong: a high volume of "hey here's my first ELW that I discovered around an F star" wouldn't be terribly interesting for other explorers. What's more, curators could help offer comments and such to the submitter, so that they could make their POI submissions even better.

So, making a new system that adds a new approach (voting) alongside the old one (curating) as well? I very much like it.

Also, moving submissions away from forum posts would be even better. Maybe it worked years ago, but times have changed, this subforum's activity has dropped significantly: I'm hanging out on a number of Discords, and the various exploration communities are more active. Fora were always just one among many communities, even though this one here is an official forum: by now, it's just easier to share images and such elsewhere.
 
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Griff Rogers

Griff Rogers
Great idea, though I agree it needs careful consideration of how to edit. Being inundated with everybody's firsts doesn't add much value, but crowdsourcing should have significant capability to refine a POI list. Crowdsourcing also reduces workload as effectively as automation.

If submissions go through EDAstro, that would circumvent the forum limitations. I also expect views of top POIs would be integrated with current maps and other POI filters, so commanders could see everything they might want to visit along their route together on the map. Would be nice to have automated commander position (and maybe other things) on the map, which I assume is functionality having EDAstro accounts would add.
 

Orvidius

Orvidius
Having accounts on EDAstro will open possibilities for things like having your commander position tracked more automatically at some point, yes. We'd have to get API support for that coordinated with the various journal applications, so that's a "someday later" sort of thing anyway.

EDAstro doesn't have to be the host to the POI system (if there's a better idea out there), but something that I'll require if I DO run it is that it mostly run itself. Hence the voting, and giving users the ability to filter the list on those scores, or whatever. Building a list based on score thresholds or something, and then importing that into the interactive map would be super awesome. Just thinking "aloud" here.
 

Rock-Hermit

Rock-Hermit
Automation is good.
Curation is essential. Its why the GMP was so successful and well respected for all these years. Quality over quantity any day.
Moving the project off the forums may not be a good idea though as you'll be excluding many casual players that don't want to sign up to third party apps or websites. The GMP was open to all, all you needed to do was post your discovery here and that was that if it was accepted. Simple and effective.
- my 2 cents.
 

Richard Fluiraniz M

Richard Fluiraniz M
An easy way for explorers to share their discoveries while keeping them relevant. I like that.

I will also work on a discord and an official thread for this once we get some solid ideas going.

Lets get this going CMDRs
 

LCU No Fool Like One

LCU No Fool Like One
Perhaps we might be able to use the Canonn plugin which shows nearby GMP entries to allow people to comment of vote on neoGMP entries?
If a user visits one of the GMP POIs it could provide a pre-filled link that we create a new submission or allow voting on an existing one?
There will be a lot of old GMP entries that will be obsolete and others that would be worth transferring.

This could also be used by other tools or plugins to help validate old GMP POIs and enter new ones.

One of the things I would like from an API would be the ability to look up the nearest to a set of xyz coordinates.
 

Richard Fluiraniz M

Richard Fluiraniz M
LCU No Fool Like One said:
Perhaps we might be able to use the Canonn plugin which shows nearby GMP entries to allow people to comment of vote on neoGMP entries?
If a user visits one of the GMP POIs it could provide a pre-filled link that we create a new submission or allow voting on an existing one?
There will be a lot of old GMP entries that will be obsolete and others that would be worth transferring.

This could also be used by other tools or plugins to help validate old GMP POIs and enter new ones.

One of the things I would like from an API would be the ability to look up the nearest to a set of xyz coordinates.
Click to expand...
The Canonn plugin is an excellent tool for renewal spotting. I will handle a thread made specifically for that (renewals) later in the week.

Perhaps we could work something with the spreadsheet I will make to indicate in the plugin whats needed from an old entry?

Sent you a DM.
 
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Orvidius

Orvidius
I'm operating under the assumption that no one else is going to beat me to this, and there's only a small number of us in a good position to do it anyway. So I've started on the database structure and web framework on EDAstro. Right now the account system is the only thing working, with no functionality attached to it.

Hopefully I can slowly get this pieced together. I'll want to start on a POI submission/viewing/editing interface first, and then get the voting and curation capabilities added. Any sort of map integration will have to come later.
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
I've had a similar idea (with no expectation whatsoever to realise it), I think it's great someone is doing this.

It strikes me that the "interest" of a given POI may also actually be linked significantly to temporal conjunctions (be it simply lighting, or the positions of bodies too), and so an accurate timestamp may be an important component of the information as well as location. The ability to then project when some principal features of that arrangement are next brought together (perhaps via a separate tool) would be fun (at it's most basic, when to get there for the sunset in game time, say).

A tool to filter for systems with generic conjunctions (say, eclipses viewed from landables, for simplicity) using projection forward of orbital mechanics propagated from timestamped (orrery?) observations would also be interesting. You could imagine roving paganistic 10000s of ly pilgrimage expeditions happening, converging on certain systems to see a five body eclipse from an EL moon's moon or something 😄.

I like this idea of exploration actually feeding into something greater than itself, particularly something with some scientific flavour.
 

Noobqueen

Noobqueen
Orvidius said:
With the GMP moving into maintenance mode, I've been kicking the idea around of creating a crowdsourced POI system on EDAstro. The focus would be very different than what the GMP has been, since the idea would be for everyone to create their own POIs to share, and then everyone could vote on them, resulting in scores that can be used to filter the list or highlight particularly good POIs.

Here's what I've been thinking:
  • Accounts can create/edit their own POIs
  • Everyone can rate other POIs with 1-5 stars
  • Designated curators also vote on POIs
  • POIs receive scores based on number and quality of votes.
  • POIs have two scores- One from curators, one from everyone else.

Nothing is set in stone, and I'm just throwing around ideas at the moment. Before starting on something like that, I want to make sure I'm not duplicating effort, so whether Anthor helps with a project on EDSM is something I'd like to consider. Or, if someone else is already planning to make something like this, let me know.

A necessary first step is account management, registration, and logins, and I have that part working on EDAstro now.
Click to expand...
This is a great idea. I have a few POIs i'd like to share but i'm not sure they're very remarkable (Which is why I didn't put them on the GMP).

Maybe it could also be hooked up to EDSM somehow
 

LifesAJourney

LifesAJourney
I like the idea!

Is there an intention to restrict the new POIs to Odyssey only? Otherwise a sort of a cleanup of no-longer-existing stuff might be required when Horizons finally merges with Odyssey.
 

Griff Rogers

Griff Rogers
It would be excellent if EDAstro got accounts and API support.

There are not really that many POIs that are limited to Horizons planetary tech. Most POIs are relevant to both Horizons and Odyssey. Also, there already is a process to shift existing POIs to "archived" status, with a separate filter on EDSM. Continuing that would make sense, even for planetary POIs that require Horizons planetary tech, as those can still be accessed in game, and will be accessible even on PC as long as Horizons remains a launcher option.

As to Forum submissions, a 600 page Forum post with limitations on size and method for posting images is also not necessarily the most accessible format. Easy enough to have a Forum post explaining the project and simply pointing players to a more accessible submission format elsewhere.
 
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Griff Rogers

Griff Rogers
Galactic Mapping Project - it was a community organized endeavor to designate POIs found by commanders throughout the galaxy, which are searchable on EDSM and EDAstro's maps. It ran for a number of years, but unfortunately those currently managing it decided to discontinue it and announced that decision this week, thus the immediate need for a replacement.
 

Rock-Hermit

Rock-Hermit
Codger said:
Ah. I didn't even know about it somehow. Thanks for the info :)
Click to expand...

Heh, its the main thread pinned in this very forum. Over 1 million views! Although I suspect its not something that's well known of further afield as its for explorers only, and I don't ever recall Frontier mentioning it anywhere (although they have used some of its entries and put them into the game, so they're definitely aware of it!) :)
 
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