Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
LittleAnt said:
This tracker view is more reliable than the cards view. When a task is done, we generally see the effect in the PU few months later.
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Not sure how exactly that improves the chances for CIG to actually do deliver what they said they want to deliver. CIG has had 5 or 6 iterations on the roadmap. The common theme to all of them is that they had more often than not managed to grossly miss all key milestones in them. SQ42, salvage, exploration, server meshing, subsumption AI, and a humongous etc. The uselessness of the CIG roadmap is such that in this last iteration CIG has even decided to eliminate any mention to actual estimated delivery dates beyond the next 3 months for crying out loud.

will no longer show any deliverables in the Release View for any patches beyond the immediate one in the next quarter
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And yet you think that is somehow a game changer and an assurance of better delivery? Le sigh. The only thing that does for CIG is to reduce community "noise".

Those roadmaps have all missed most key milestones in them, irrespective of the skin or flavor CIG uses. Almost a decade of delays. That simply points to chronical technical and managerial incompetence. The roadmaps have been extremely successful at generating hype and misleading backers into spending lots of money though. Money that, despite CIG consistently not fulfilling their roadmaps, has never been offered for a refund.
 
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LittleAnt

L
Viajero said:
And yet you think that is somehow a game changer and an assurance of better delivery? Le sigh. The only thing that does for CIG is to reduce community "noise".
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Reducing the card delivery planning to one quarter was an excellent decision, hugely limiting the community frustration.
The cards annouced are almost all delivered now. CIG is slow to deliver, have huge delays and all their estimations for mid/long term deliveries were wrong. Giving dates for mid and long term cards was always a mistake, a mistake corrected now.
About the "better delivery", what is exactly "bettter" for a pre-alpha ? Better delivery for the backers that want to play a gold game, the backers that want to test an alpha or for CIG that want to construct the game ?
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
LittleAnt said:
Reducing the card delivery planning to one quarter was an excellent decision, hugely limiting the community frustration.
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Let´s try to back up a bit to the start of the conversation because you are already starting to move goalposts.

This was your original response to a comment challenging that Pyro will come any time soon (or at the end of the year as announced by CIG):
LittleAnt said:
But the secret build is not exactly secret as you can track all Pyro's elements on the roadmap.
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Pyro has already been delayed a few times times since announced in 2019. And roadmaps at CIG have very consistently missed many key milestones while CIG got all the hype related money. But now somehow the fact that CIG has reduced the view of their roadmap to just 3 months means that CIG will now deliver Pyro as stated?

On one thing we agree though: The decision to cut all transparency to just 3 months extremely reduces the community "noise", or "frustration" as you call it, and more importantly at the same time it also eliminates what little was left of accountability for CIG.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
LittleAnt said:
But that's what they do. They have already delivered the mvp for me.
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I think it's astoundingly obvious that I'm talking about the guys who've bought expensive ships, hooked to missing (&/or perpetually alpha) features.

The guys who've bought $3000 80-crew Javelins, or any of the other undelivered or incomplete macro purchases from the very long list...

Y'know. The guys who've actually paid for the grand alpha experiment to date.

You may not care if they never get what they paid those big $$$ for, or if the alpha remains in a perpetual alpha state. But others do...
 

LittleAnt

L
Viajero said:
This was your original response to a comment challenging that Pyro will come any time soon (or at the end of the year as announced by CIG):
Pyro has already been delayed a few times times since announced in 2019. And roadmaps at CIG have very consistently missed many key milestones while CIG got all the hype related money. But now somehow the fact that CIG has reduced the view of their roadmap to just 3 months means that CIG will now delivered Pyro as stated?
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What you don't understand is that I don't care about delays as long as CIG is actively working to deliver the promises.
Pyro is actively worked with clear progress shown on the tracker and an intent from CIG to deliver it as soon as all blockers will be lifted (that are less and less numerous), it's all that matter for me.
Viajero said:
On one thing we agree though: The decision to cut all transparency to just 3 months extremely reduces the community "noise", or "frustration" as you call it, and more importantly at the same time it also eliminates what little was left of accountability for CIG.
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You put the accountability on respecting dates given, I put accountability on delivering a good product, whatever delay it gets. CIG starting to deliver gen 12, delivering refueling or refining, giving a good BB interface for refinery and refueling, etc is all that matter for me. I don't care if I don't see the cards of next year on the roadmap, the important thing is to see new elements/gameplay in game each quarter, that's what CIG is doing.
When I put my ROC in the Nomad cargo to mine 3 hours with no 30k on Lyria, with some gadgets and my son prospecting for the next spot, I don't remember how much delay had each one of the relative cards to all of this elements. I just enjoy them in game and I'm impatient to see all new elements of the next patch.
 
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Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
It really shouldn’t take 10 years to figure out the personality of a game development company. Things like their ability to deliver on their promises, how accurate their time estimates are, how buggy releases tend to be, and so on. For example, if a company consistently misses their long-term time estimates by 50%, you can reliably adjust your expectations accordingly. Conversely, you shouldn’t accept a culture change at a company until there’s enough evidence that any claimed change is genuine. As the old saying goes: once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, after that, it’s a pattern.

After ten years, it’s pretty obvious what CIG’s personality is: promise big things, take obscene money for them, fail to deliver on those promises, then promises even bigger things. Rinse and repeat.

Meanwhile, yet another indie-studio focuses on the right things while in early access/playable alpha: gameplay first, stability second, and eventually graphics once it’s ready for formal release.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
This broke my brain.

mmo8t2yhcvb91.png


Javelin owners rejoice, CIG never planned to make the game so you could fully crew your ship and on top meet other people in other ships.
 

varonica

varonica
LittleAnt said:
What you don't understand is that I don't care about delays as long as CIG is actively working to deliver the promises.
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Monorail, monorail...monorail!

I don't need to point out this is the exact thinking every scammer on every scam on the entire planet for the entirety of history relied on to keep the marks paying.

Now I am not saying SC is a scam, because it may indeed not be, just a very badly run, overspending, overpromised and over hyped potential game that may indeed never be releases...but it also fits the profile of every scam ever....how do you tell?
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Personally I envy everyone enjoying Star Citizen right now. I wanted to, but it wasn't meant to be. On the other hand, I have Space Engineers, X4 Foundations, Flight Simulator (which scratches many of those "flying down on an atmospheric planet" itches), and yes, Elite Dangerous. And regarding specific itches that I think Star Citizen would have scratched if I could have gotten it to run, those will very likely be covered by the upcoming Starfield.
 

PiLhEaD

PiLhEaD
LittleAnt said:
What you don't understand is that I don't care about delays as long as CIG is actively working to deliver the promises
Pyro is actively worked with clear progress shown on the tracker and an intent from CIG to deliver it as soon as all blockers will be lifted (that are less and less numerous*), it's all that matter for me.....
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I've read this sort of comment before and it always makes me smile and cringe.

I'm always pleased to hear that people wouldn't care if it took (let's say) another 10 years of actively working to clear all the blockers to get (let's say) Pyro released. Or SQ404 released, or server meshing, etc. Or maybe 20 years. Yeah, take as long as you want.

Except it's nonsense. No one has infinite patience for anything. No one.

* until they discover a new blocker, or piece of must-have-ium....
 
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