Discovery Scanner - 01/08/2022
- Thread starter sallymorganmoore
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sallymorganmoore
Senior Community Manager : Elite Dangerous
sallymorganmoore
Senior Community Manager : Elite Dangerous
Ah, ok, so we will sometimes know loosely the narrative direction of things before we speak up about them, sure.
Do people want to know how an in game story rolls out ahead of it rolling out? This I'd be really curious to collect thoughts on, to be honest.
I know for me, I buy a book to read it as a page for page story and not just the summary on the back but that might absolutely not be the case for everyone.
I will say, it would be a massive balancing act to make sure that those who did want to go through narrative at an immersive level, didn't get things spoiled for them.
It's an interesting one. Maybe we just need to rethink our excitement levels, in order to not cause any of those assumptions that cast a shadow really, but then if we didn't have any kind of positive thoughts on some of the forward narrative in the works, some of you might not think there's anything being thought up and the game is at a pause and we're neglecting it.
It's really tricky. We'll keep trying our best to figure out how to suit everyone though.
Or, or course, one might read what has been written, before being 'smart', all it does is make one look exactly the opposite - wouldn't you agree?
If it is just another step in the narrative, all that was required, to prevent frustration, was to mention that it was just narrative being referred to, then expectations are not raised that the game itself is being added to.
No worries, Sally, if, as you have intimated, it is just narrative (and likely centred around the bubble, as usual) it is correct to not mention it. Thanks.
proxyalpha
Banned
Elite's narrative had issues in the past where galnets and similar clues were released early by accident. This almost never fared well. So revealing the story ahead of time might not be the best. To me, an ideal scenario is revealing enough clues for some players to be able to deduce what might come next. This has already been the case with U13 (basically I figured out what you're cooking by the smell but I ain't snitching) but I was hoping for more clear clues. In any case, so far the Azimuth narrative is being handled ok-ish with the exception of the illusion of choice for the pro-thargoid people and the incredibly long buildup.
This is very much the Kinder Egg problem: you get excited because its a damn Kinder Egg but after you scoff down the crazy 'moAR milk, less chocolate' chocolate you crack open the capsule to be greeted with....something you would certainly not be excited about. For me it would be Crazy Crocos, or the sixth bracelet in a row when I wanted the aeroplane or mini kit cars.
Some people won't really care about the chocolate, but will care about the toy inside. If what is coming is tied to lore and can't be revealed on release (to generate enthusiam to find it) that might put them off- perhaps have a spoiler section that has broad strokes whats added (but no story- so its "added Thargoid Motherships / added Guardian Roboships" etc).
But then I suppose its other players excitedly splurging out spoilers and we are back to Doom™.
FD could make one of those Commander Chronicles videos and do a mini intro that sets the tone. Just don't show people walking inside ships or have a disclaimer below:
NOTE: SHIP INTERIORS ARE FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES. VALUE OF CREDITS CAN GO UP AS WELL AS DOWN. IF YOU DO NOT KEEP UP PAYMENTS YOUR FLEET CARRIER CAN BE AT RISK. THARGOIDS, FAR GOD, GUARDIANS, ASP IN FRONT OF THINGS™ FRONTIER DEVELOPMENTS
Some people won't really care about the chocolate, but will care about the toy inside. If what is coming is tied to lore and can't be revealed on release (to generate enthusiam to find it) that might put them off- perhaps have a spoiler section that has broad strokes whats added (but no story- so its "added Thargoid Motherships / added Guardian Roboships" etc).
But then I suppose its other players excitedly splurging out spoilers and we are back to Doom™.
FD could make one of those Commander Chronicles videos and do a mini intro that sets the tone. Just don't show people walking inside ships or have a disclaimer below:
NOTE: SHIP INTERIORS ARE FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES. VALUE OF CREDITS CAN GO UP AS WELL AS DOWN. IF YOU DO NOT KEEP UP PAYMENTS YOUR FLEET CARRIER CAN BE AT RISK. THARGOIDS, FAR GOD, GUARDIANS, ASP IN FRONT OF THINGS™ FRONTIER DEVELOPMENTS
My honest opinion Sally, and this may annoy some Commanders (sorry), is that I am perfectly happy with the way you are announcing things.
I fully understand that to be told anything coming in Updates 13 and 14 would be a spoiler to the narrative. Like you I don't want to know what is going to happen until it happens. Being told what happens in a book or movie before reading or seeing it is frustrating. I hate spoilers.
Also I understand that further in the future content can't really be announced until it's worked out that the feature is indeed possible and the main details are decided. I have no idea what new content is coming in other games I play (when I can drag myself away from Elite, lol) 6 months from now and I don't see why Elite should be different.
I suspect however, as you mentioned, that some people are worried that development is winding down on Elite (which I personally don't believe) and that is why they want further information. Like you say, it's tricky ensuring the community feels Elite is still being worked on without announcing anything before it's ready to be announced.
Anyway, back to being excited about Update 13.
Thanks to you and everyone at Frontier.
I fully understand that to be told anything coming in Updates 13 and 14 would be a spoiler to the narrative. Like you I don't want to know what is going to happen until it happens. Being told what happens in a book or movie before reading or seeing it is frustrating. I hate spoilers.
Also I understand that further in the future content can't really be announced until it's worked out that the feature is indeed possible and the main details are decided. I have no idea what new content is coming in other games I play (when I can drag myself away from Elite, lol) 6 months from now and I don't see why Elite should be different.
I suspect however, as you mentioned, that some people are worried that development is winding down on Elite (which I personally don't believe) and that is why they want further information. Like you say, it's tricky ensuring the community feels Elite is still being worked on without announcing anything before it's ready to be announced.
Anyway, back to being excited about Update 13.
Thanks to you and everyone at Frontier.
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Well put Sally. I hate spoilers! There is to me nothing more annoying than getting invested in a good story (be it a book or a film- or in this case the in-game story) and finding out the ending before you’ve finished. Part of the fun is the prediction. Although to put a dampener in this… my wife always reads the last page of a book first in case she doesn’t like the ending to the story and feels she has wasted her time reading it in the first place! Oh dear, I can now see where this thread is going…. Sorry in advance.
I think it's fair enough that CMs (and devs!) are excited about what is upcoming - that's why you do the job - you should be excited about stuff you are doing. But should we be excited?
ED is like a soap, like maybe ... Eastenders. It keeps on updating, new episodes all the time. I'm sure the people making Eastenders are also excited about their work on each episode, but if the producers came on before each episode and told us 'we're excited about tonights episode', and then did that every episode, then people would start to say 'hang on, we like Eastenders, and it's a fun show so we keep watching, but we don't need to be excited about it every day'. And often the things that are exciting to viewers aren't the big storylines, but the way they are presented
I wouldn't worry about it Sally - though you are the best of them as you do worry
Stay excited!
ED is like a soap, like maybe ... Eastenders. It keeps on updating, new episodes all the time. I'm sure the people making Eastenders are also excited about their work on each episode, but if the producers came on before each episode and told us 'we're excited about tonights episode', and then did that every episode, then people would start to say 'hang on, we like Eastenders, and it's a fun show so we keep watching, but we don't need to be excited about it every day'. And often the things that are exciting to viewers aren't the big storylines, but the way they are presented
I wouldn't worry about it Sally - though you are the best of them as you do worry
Stay excited!
I think it's fair enough that CMs (and devs!) are excited about what is upcoming - that's why you do the job - you should be excited about stuff you are doing. But should we be excited?
ED is like a soap, like maybe ... Eastenders. It keeps on updating, new episodes all the time. I'm sure the people making Eastenders are also excited about their work on each episode, but if the producers came on before each episode and told us 'we're excited about tonights episode', and then did that every episode, then people would start to say 'hang on, we like Eastenders, and it's a fun show so we keep watching, but we don't need to be excited about it every day'. And often the things that are exciting to viewers aren't the big storylines, but the way they are presented
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I wouldn't worry about it Sally - though you are the best of them as you do worry
When I find out what update 13 contains, I may be excited at that point.
Do you actually get excited at anything the game presents?
I don't want to know story spoilers, or narrative threads, or such. But I'd like to be kept up to date with systems development: new ships, new SRVs, new suits and weapons, are you working on different planet biomes, etc. It would be good to keep the community up to date with progress being made on stuff like that, without going into specific stuff that would spoil the plot. I realise it's a balancing act, but other games seem to manage it. (eg you could say "we are working on water worlds, here are some alpha shots/wireframes/footage", without saying "we are working on water worlds because that is where the new antagonist Fishpeople species live" lol).
Being totally silent on development such as this just gives the impression that the game has stalled, as I've read in countless threads/forums/reddits. Dunno, just my 2p
Being totally silent on development such as this just gives the impression that the game has stalled, as I've read in countless threads/forums/reddits. Dunno, just my 2p
I'm like you, I'd rather read a book from front to back, I also love how say Disney are releasing shows on a weekly basis rather than Netflix's usual all at once approach. It gives us a chance to actually savour the story and let it sink in and be analysed... That said, I know that there are some (in my opinion) uncivilised heathens who'll read the last page of the book before they get there. I mean imagine finding out that Daddy Savlon was actually Sally's head in a jar some time last year rather than next week when all the steps leading up to that will have been set out and it gives the story so much more impact!
I also know that we ALL can become overly invested in our own head canon (see what I did there)... We've seen this in TV shows, movies and books. Frankly what the collective internet comes up with can sometimes be a lot more satisfying than what even Marvel's excellent creative teams can do (and it's usually more respectful of the lore too!) However just like with Marvel / Star Wars, Game of Thrones and so on... it's not our story to tell and we, as fans have to accept that (even though I am often with the internet and think WHY did they do that!!!) such is life... Maybe it can be a good thing if the creative teams can have the flexibility to take some of what their communities have to say (as we see in Elite and Operation Wychhunt being an official thing!) but that's a hell of a juggling act and can mean that the story is even slower.
As always it's swings and roundabouts, and in Elite's case, Frontier's playground...
07, Eid
There are two type of Elite players:
Its a difficult one for Fdev. If they give no information then people will say the game is dead. If they give them lots of information then half the players will say great and the other half will say that they are ruining the game. The doom sayers will always say "Doom!!", the wingers will always whinge, the "I want more"s will always want more (no matter what you give them), the "I want to get from A to Z without going to the other places" people will always get to Z and say the journey was boring.
Just go with the flow. What will happen will happen. Don't get over excited about what might happen, you will only be disappointed. Enjoy what you have now otherwise you will waste all your time dreaming about what the future might bring, only to miss out on what you already have.
End of philosophy lesson!!
- Those that play the game for what it is and accept the new features as they come in.
- Those who constantly wish for changes and want the game to do exactly what they want and don't care that others play the game as well. it must do what they want NOW!
Its a difficult one for Fdev. If they give no information then people will say the game is dead. If they give them lots of information then half the players will say great and the other half will say that they are ruining the game. The doom sayers will always say "Doom!!", the wingers will always whinge, the "I want more"s will always want more (no matter what you give them), the "I want to get from A to Z without going to the other places" people will always get to Z and say the journey was boring.
Just go with the flow. What will happen will happen. Don't get over excited about what might happen, you will only be disappointed. Enjoy what you have now otherwise you will waste all your time dreaming about what the future might bring, only to miss out on what you already have.
End of philosophy lesson!!
Thanks for the replies here Sally!
I would like to add one thing. Some people seem to feel that the messaging on Elite's future updates (Update 13, 14) is vague. The vague messaging is leading people to have no idea what to expect. Is Update 13 going to be a content update (for example: new in-game assets such as Thargoids or player ships)? Is it going to be an update to modules that can be Engineered (new materials to collect)? Is it going to be some new in-game environments (or changes to existing ones)?
Players generally have no clue what to expect. Players only know that it is "exciting".
I hate to say it, but we have been here many times before. Sometimes it pans out extremely well. And sometimes it doesn't. The uncertainty and lack of clarity is (in my opinion) a huge problem.
How you guys can get around this without spoiling the story, I have no idea. But game updates are about more than just story. Messaging whether or not to expect content, asset or gameplay updates - would be a huge, huge help with expectations.
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For those who spend the majority of their game time in outlying places like Colonia, the narrative has very little impact on them, with the majority of events happening in, and around, the bubble.
Yes, we had the Colonia Bridge CGs in both 'bubbles' (I named one of the megaships, playing in Colonia, naturally) but, on the whole, events are rare and own narrative is created.
No doubt the next season of narrative will, again, be principally in the bubble, that is where the majority of players are, naturally. So my own curiosity is from one for whom the bubble events are distant, most of the time, so anything that might change the game for every player is of interest to me, not so much more of the same happening 22KLy away.
Yes, we had the Colonia Bridge CGs in both 'bubbles' (I named one of the megaships, playing in Colonia, naturally) but, on the whole, events are rare and own narrative is created.
No doubt the next season of narrative will, again, be principally in the bubble, that is where the majority of players are, naturally. So my own curiosity is from one for whom the bubble events are distant, most of the time, so anything that might change the game for every player is of interest to me, not so much more of the same happening 22KLy away.
In that case, there's nothing to announce at the moment. Elite doesn't have the resources for both the narrative content and the stuff you mentioned at the same time.
It really isn't that black and white at all...