I want open world BUT The cost of insurance will kill it. Unless !!

[Zenim]

Hi All

Let me start with I am in love with this game and I was a lover of the very first Elite on my Com 64. yes that make me a 40YO+ Gamer

Back then if we die all we would need to do is reload save and try again. Now with always online worlds the penalty set us back 1-3 days worth of gaming (depending of cost of ship. currently my cost of insurance is just under 1.5M) !! how much can you make per day. And Is grinding a 'way of life' in gamming and MMO,s now???

So for the last months I have enjoyed Elite Dangerous and have worked hard at gearing my ship, will I take it to open world a risk being wiped over and over again.

NO sorry.. Solo play is where I will stay as I don't see any benefits.. Unless!!!

Open world cost of insurance was reduced to the point that I didn't care if that 20YO was kinking my ass over and over and over again.. ok I am over it

If the insurance in open world was reduced severely then everyone would risk more and play more in open world.

People who want PVP will really want this as it a big galaxy out there we need more to fill it of every skill level....

In the last 10 years of MMO gamming I have never faced such a penalty of death.. PVP or PVE World.

In RPGMMO if some one killed you the cost would be so little you didn't care.. you even risked revenge. At the cost of 1.5M... F that I am licked... later dude back to Solo play to grind up more cash for the next time I forget to request docking clearance and the space station wipes you. .. You all now what I am talking about don't dine you have not came close to it happening.

So please get up behind posts like this and others like it and enjoy a rich world of suckers like me hulling 192T of gold ripe for plunder in a open world of Elite Dangerous not just one filled with NPC. Who know one day I mite learn how to fight back in my ASP...

Your thought's

Zen

 

[s0ilwork]

i prefer ironman :>

 

[Uridium]

Death must have consequences, or a game becomes pointless and uninspiring. If there is no drawback to being killed, where is the incentive to improve....

Do not agree with the OP at all.

 

[Adept]

OP assumes there will not be strict enough consequences for murder that they would change how people behave. That remains to be seen.

 

[Zargor]

You will still lose your ship to NPCs, good luck with avoiding that. Death needs consequences otherwise gaemplay is meaningless.

 

[Victory]

Cobra's insurance is the last I could afford to pay. I don't think I could go higher than ASP.

 

[Zalifer]

I have to say, the game is fine with insurance.

You need to take care, and be careful. It adds a sense of real danger. To take the adage from EVE online, "Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose". The Insurance cost is only 10% of the ship, so it's not all that much, unless you are dying regularly.

 

[Robert Maynard]

NO sorry.. Solo play is where I will stay as I don't see any benefits.. Unless!!!

Open world cost of insurance was reduced to the point that I didn't care if that 20YO was kinking my ass over and over and over again.. ok I am over it

If the insurance in open world was reduced severely then everyone would risk more and play more in open world.

Why should players in open-online, who can significantly reduce their risks by grouping together, be offered reduced insurance payments compared to players in solo-online or private groups?

This seems to be another variant on the "solo-online players should be penalised" theme (and a benefit for open in comparison to solo *is* a penalty for solo in comparison to open).

 

[Avnas]

at least you're not grinding XP for no reason in this game

i think the insurance should be like real insurance.

it goes up the first time you buy it for a certain craft.

IE:

anaconda experienced pilot who has had anaconda insurance for a few weeks and not claimed gets it cheaper

anaconda inexperienced pilot who got blown to pieces on his first day with it will pay the current rate

________________

also, you should be able to get first and third party insurance, i mean why not.

one for crashes, one for combat or crashes

 

[Flappers]

Sorry OP, I have to disagree.

There has to be a death penalty, otherwise people will just go nuts in open play... it will completely ruin the immersion.

In fact, I personally believe that the cost of death is too low right now... if you have a sidewinder, with a few basic upgrades, it's very easy to get it back.
I would much prefer to see a manual insurance system in place, rather than an automatic one (I'm not a fan of EvE online, but I do like how their insurance model works, and I think it could work well here too).

But that's my opinion.

As for making it completely meaningless to die in open play, I will have to strictly say no. I much prefer risk vs. reward, than no risk vs. reward. With no risk, comes chaos. With chaos comes griefers. With griefers come lower player base. Lower playerbase = death of the game.

 

[Zenim]

I totally agree with all that say "there must be a penalty for Death and that with out it the game it nothing"

What I am debating is how high should that PENALYT be, and especially in a PVP world with people with different skills.

If you want all rang of skill to play the open world not just the Elite, then refer to my OP point.

For all those how say there must be a penalty of death ... I would like to know how many time's have you die in this game so far? dose the NPC Cobra kill you every time you are pulled from super cruse?

You Got to understand that there is a big difference in skill lvl of this game. The bigger your ship dose not mean you are going to win.. If you where in other types of games your level and gear would help you in a PVP world.

I have seen to many youtubs of people in sidewinders killing Anacondas. Seeing stuff like that I know that I am stuffed in the PVP world.

My point is.. You DO want people to go nuts in a Open world.. they is a Player bounty system for that reason...

My guess is that bounty system will never be needed as no one will want to play the Open world, unless there is a desire to play open world, other wise the open world will be left for the geared and skilled up to PVP only..

Just think if 200 people was playing right now spread over the galaxy we have to play right now..

How long would it take to find and engage ONE of them.....then you will spend 100+ hours just trying to find some one.


Zen

 

[Zenim]

Why should players in open-online, who can significantly reduce their risks by grouping together, be offered reduced insurance payments compared to players in solo-online or private groups?

This seems to be another variant on the "solo-online players should be penalised" theme (and a benefit for open in comparison to solo *is* a penalty for solo in comparison to open).

Ok you get together five of your mates... Who are you going to hunt down? you have spent all the time getting together from what part of the galaxy you where in when you logged in.. then WHAT .. Hmm lets go to Free Port.. I hear Noobs like to hang out there !! WFT only NPC

yes there is a lot less risk for more that one player group but IMO your chance of finding anyone in this current system is low.

Zen

My point is if you play Solo the risk of some one jumping you is a lot lower then online play.. Yes ? No? ...

 

[SuBSynk]

Ok you get together five of your mates... Who are you going to hunt down? you have spent all the time getting together from what part of the galaxy you where in when you logged in.. then WHAT .. Hmm lets go to Free Port.. I hear Noobs like to hang out there !! WFT only NPC

yes there is a lot less risk for more that one player group but IMO your chance of finding anyone in this current system is low.

Zen

My point is if you play Solo the risk of some one jumping you is a lot lower then online play.. Yes ? No? ...

The risk of being interedicted is the same in open or closed play, some have reported higher chances in solo from NPC's to be fair.

Obviously you have the added risk of players interdicting you in open play but no-one would knowingly interdict a group of players now would they.

The risk of dieing in solo is far higher than being in open and with friends to help out...

 

[Uridium]

Ok, I know its bad form to use caps on a forum, but I feel that this needs to be said here (and in many other threads really)

THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME!

It just happens to have an element where one player can attack another player. I really suggest that people go and research DBOBE & FDev's views on PvP, and their ideas for Elite. Even pirates will be encouraged by penalties etc, to not explode their targets.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I'm a similar age and by no means a hotshot combat pilot but I've been in Open Play the whole time.

You just don't die that often unless you actively seek combat.

 

[Avery Woodes]

Getting jumped and killed? Try a different system, or....

Don't fly directly at your destination. Go above it, or swing out and then come from a less traveled direction. Don't be an easy target. Focus your build towards survivability and speed.

Overshoot destinations and double back. Try and think about what cargo carriers in history have done. (Think age of sail maybe more than 20th century)

Pirates and gankers want targets so they will be where the most targets are. Ie...the most commonly traveled route to a station, where all sorts of fools are flying straight and steadily slowing down.

As someone else pointed out: don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
You might not do things that financially justify a totally pimp ship. So don't have one until you do.


I hope at some point to see the ability to hire player escorts (with more oversite than say EVE offers so there's less double crossing)

I dearly hope pirates are encouraged to rob more than kill. That will result in more interesting play.

But you think getting ganked is bad now? Make replacing ships cheaper and then you'll see some true misery.

 

[Zenim]

Why should players in open-online, who can significantly reduce their risks by grouping together, be offered reduced insurance payments compared to players in solo-online or private groups?

This seems to be another variant on the "solo-online players should be penalised" theme (and a benefit for open in comparison to solo *is* a penalty for solo in comparison to open).

.
You base your argument on the fact that every time you step in to the Open world you have one or more of your friends with you at all times so your risk level is MUCH less...

You are forgetting the intelligent of a player over a NPC.

Risk and rewarded. Due to none players there is less risk in Solo play than Open world. SO WHY would I play open world.

Unless I could do those missions that if I was to crash my ship or get shot down by pirates the cost would be less If I was in a open world.. Just running the risk of PVP. ITS a Big galaxy remember.

You're never going to come across someone trying to do a mission and have the opportunity to help them out, if there is no more benefit to do the quest in open play rather than solo mode.

Some of the best people I have meet online if from taking the time to help others...

I don't see this happening in this game.

With the current set up If I wanted to play with a friend I would just open a private group session, once again less risk.

Unless we where all geared up in our ASP and Anaconda and ready to troll the systems... How many system will we have in he open game?? Yer that many... until we find our pray...

And pray you don't win tatts and get jumped buy a bunch of A holes in totally worked up fed ships.

This is what I think PVP (open world ... dose not mean 100% PVP) will be.. I may be wrong but you will only get the elite or care free playing open world IMO.


My debate is not pitched at those how are happy to cruise around in solo gaming. My pitch is for this game to be one like the developers want, one with a rich open world as well offering a solo experience to those who want one.

Zen

 

[Zenim]

The risk of being interedicted is the same in open or closed play, some have reported higher chances in solo from NPC's to be fair.

Obviously you have the added risk of players interdicting you in open play but no-one would knowingly interdict a group of players now would they.

The risk of dieing in solo is far higher than being in open and with friends to help out...

So based on your statement what would you prefer to play? Solo or Open?

Assuming most people playing would not have friends with them most of the time.

The only time I get interedicted is when the game dose its freezing thing (I hoping that will be fixed in Gamer and then 1-100 would I get interedicted from an NPC). I am guessing Players will have spent money and have better upgraded ones that pull you out quicker.

Just for interests do you play open world and have you meet anyone yet?

Zen

 

[Zenim]

Getting jumped and killed? Try a different system, or....

Don't fly directly at your destination. Go above it, or swing out and then come from a less traveled direction. Don't be an easy target. Focus your build towards survivability and speed.

Overshoot destinations and double back. Try and think about what cargo carriers in history have done. (Think age of sail maybe more than 20th century)

Pirates and gankers want targets so they will be where the most targets are. Ie...the most commonly traveled route to a station, where all sorts of fools are flying straight and steadily slowing down.

As someone else pointed out: don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
You might not do things that financially justify a totally pimp ship. So don't have one until you do.


I hope at some point to see the ability to hire player escorts (with more oversite than say EVE offers so there's less double crossing)

I dearly hope pirates are encouraged to rob more than kill. That will result in more interesting play.

But you think getting ganked is bad now? Make replacing ships cheaper and then you'll see some true misery.

Very good tactics... Love it and will use them.

"As someone else pointed out: don't fly what you can't afford to lose."

Yer I can afford to lose if I don't mine spending 5-10 hour's to regain ONE loss.

I always make sure I got the money to cover insurance.

Ok back to my OP

So your this awesome player in his awesome ship .. Stuff happen and you some how loss your ship... that has set you back 1-2 Million in insurance (being conservative here) how many hours of grinding will it take you to get back the cash so you got you're one time cover of insurance again.

Lets not take into that count that if you where hulling 192T of gold worth 1.8mil ....

Would you Do you take that risk in a Open world or do you like most I know in this game do it in solo only. from all the Youtub post I have seen making gold that do it in solo.

SO MY POINT IS why would you play open world unless you where geared and skilled for PVP.

There is no other benefits ??

Is there or am I totally missing something??

Zen

 

[Corwyn]

When I was playing Everquest, I went on a dragon raid with a ton of people, it was fun. The death penalty is steep there too, I lost 6 levels during that raid, and all my gear due to failed corpse retrieval. Every game has a death penalty, if you don't like it, or don't approve, don't play.