Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Like say if you paid your mortagage with profits from illegal drug business, is the bank any way culpable?
I’m not an expert in the matter but I’ve worked for some financial institutions… and that’s a HUGE NO NO… The bank would no longer be in compliance with anti-money laundering laws, etc.

In the case of Calder’s, the bank receiving the funds will have to do their “due diligence” and ask: where the money comes from? Which Calder’s can answer easily I’m sure…
 
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I’m not an expert in the matter but I’ve worked for some financial institutions… and that’s a HUGE NO NO… The bank would no longer be in compliance with anti-money laundering laws, etc.

In the case of Calder’s, the bank receiving the funds will have to do their “due diligence” and ask: where the money comes from? Which Calder’s can answer easily I’m sure…
Well okay you have some complicated scheme like hollywood accounting shell company game, obfuscating where money really came from :) Not like something as getting to bank with bag full of cash :D
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I was thinking legally dubious on CIG's behalf ;). (All money's fungible right, but I assume part of the role of auditing etc is to make sure amounts which have been termed 'liabilities' shouldn't find their way into the 'profits' pile etc).

Although I guess if private investors were to lean on their debtors to act along those lines, as Navi suggests, they'd be just as bad ;)
As discussed a few pages back, I do not think CIG has termed those amounts as 'liabilities' at all though. At least not since 2016, and probably even earlier. CIG profits are probably well and sure considered in full right, accounting and tax wise by CIG, the Calders and any relevant tax authority. And I suspect the Calders are getting their returns from "backer´s pledges" in one way or another. Assuming the funds tracker is accurate of course.

CIG is selling an extremely crappy released product, but a released product it is (released in early access in 2016, as per CIG legal defense statements in the past). The only 'case' against that would come from the ToS itself. Which actually is really vague and could eventually allow pretty much any interpretation CIG wants it to be. Mind you the only ones that could have an incentive to challenge those ToS are the players... For as long as HM R&C or the IRS etc are getting their due taxes, no official agency will probably care much about those ToS or how crappy SC is.
 
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Console peas... people talk. 30 is kinda terrible when twitch shooting.
As a former console peasant (still play Sea of Thieves on Xbox live and love my PS4 pro)...a fixed 30fps was fine when everyone else you played with online had exactly the same hardware limitation ;)

With SC...you unfortunately need a fairly beefy CPU/GPU combo to consistently be above 60fps.
 
As discussed a few pages back, I do not think CIG has termed those amounts as 'liabilities' at all though. At least not since 2016, and probably even earlier. CIG profits are probably well and sure considered in full right, accounting and tax wise by CIG, the Calders and any relevant tax authority.

Ay, but we're just guessing here though ultimately. I don't think declarations in one preliminary court case that SC is 'released' is enough basis to be sure of that.

(I can totally believe that CIG might try that gambit ;). I just don't think we have the proof.)

But hell, I don't speak accountant-ese at all, so might not recognise the proof if put in front of me ;)

Like, I look at the scant info we have, the UK accounts: (filed 14th Oct 2021). And to my amateur eye it looks like there are no significant liabilities listed. But then again, p14 also suggests no 'profit' either?:

As permitted by s408 Companies Act 2006, the company has not presented its own profit and loss accounts and related notes. The company's profit for the year was £0. (2019 - £1,823,527 loss).

While p.27 suggests pledges are treated as 'deferred revenue':

Revenue Recognition

The group have determined it most appropriate to recognise any pledge receipts as revenue to match against the development costs incurred on the game. Any pledge receipts that have not yet been spent on the development of the game are treated as deferred revenue until said funds are deployed on the game development.

Frankly I'm already flailing in the dark. And it doesn't help that CIG UK LTD is just part of a larger opaque structure, sloshing money back and forth between the many CIG entities. And so is probably free to declare everything as profit, or revenue, or whatever it wants, if their cash has been injected in from a distinct US entity, or whatever?

It's hard to know really, as they seem hesitant to draw back the veil (p28)...

In the opinion of the Directors, analysis of turnover based on geographical location would be seriously prejudicial to the interests of the Group, therefore this has not been disclosed.

I'd imagine only an audited view of the full company as a whole would reveal how CIG are classifying all this backer wonga ;)

/amateurccountancy
 
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Ay, but we're just guessing here though ultimately. I don't think declarations in one preliminary court case that SC is 'released' is enough basis to be sure of that.

(I can totally believe that CIG might try that gambit ;). I just don't think we have the proof.)

But hell, I don't speak accountant-ese at all, so might not recognise the proof if put in front of me ;)

Like, I look at the scant info we have, the UK accounts: (filed 14th Oct 2021). And to my amateur eye it looks like there are no significant liabilities listed. But then again, p14 also suggests no 'profit' either?:



While p.27 suggests pledges are treated as 'deferred revenue':



Frankly I'm already flailing in the dark. And it doesn't help that CIG UK LTD is just part of a larger opaque structure, sloshing money back and forth between the many CIG entities. And so is probably free to declare everything as profit, or revenue, or whatever it wants, if their cash has been injected in from a distinct US entity, or whatever?

It's hard to know really, as they seem hesitant to draw back the veil (p28)...



I'd imagine only an audited view of the full company as a whole would reveal how CIG are classifying all this backer wonga ;)

/amateurccountancy
When I asked my old family accountant to have a dig...the only thing he offered was to raise an eyebrow and say "You haven't put any money into this...have you? " :whistle:
 
Ay, but we're just guessing here though ultimately. I don't think declarations in one preliminary court case that SC is 'released' is enough basis to be sure of that.

(I can totally believe that CIG might try that gambit ;). I just don't think we have the proof.)

But hell, I don't speak accountant-ese at all, so might not recognise the proof if put in front of me ;)

Like, I look at the scant info we have, the UK accounts: (filed 14th Oct 2021). And to my amateur eye it looks like there are no significant liabilities listed. But then again, p14 also suggests no 'profit' either?:



While p.27 suggests pledges are treated as 'deferred revenue':



Frankly I'm already flailing in the dark. And it doesn't help that CIG UK LTD is just part of a larger opaque structure, sloshing money back and forth between the many CIG entities. And so is probably free to declare everything as profit, or revenue, or whatever it wants, if their cash has been injected in from a distinct US entity, or whatever?

It's hard to know really, as they seem hesitant to draw back the veil (p28)...



I'd imagine only an audited view of the full company as a whole would reveal how CIG are classifying all this backer wonga ;)

/amateurccountancy

Back of the cig box calculations indicate CIG spends more than they get in a normal month, but more than make up for it in a good month.

So saying profits are more or less zero is quite believable. What is more amusing is them saying that it is deferred income, but i'd love to know how much they actually have left over at the end of the year to actually defer.
 
When I asked my old family accountant to have a dig...the only thing he offered was to raise an eyebrow and say "You haven't put any money into this...have you? " :whistle:
shaking-my-head-yes.gif
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Ay, but we're just guessing here though ultimately. I don't think declarations in one preliminary court case that SC is 'released' is enough basis to be sure of that.

(I can totally believe that CIG might try that gambit ;). I just don't think we have the proof.)

But hell, I don't speak accountant-ese at all, so might not recognise the proof if put in front of me ;)

Like, I look at the scant info we have, the UK accounts: (filed 14th Oct 2021). And to my amateur eye it looks like there are no significant liabilities listed. But then again, p14 also suggests no 'profit' either?:

Indeed, all fun guess work of course. But based on the advantages this scenario confers to CIG, I suspect it is a very strong contender.

The fantastic thing about the "game already released in early access" scenario is that CIG does not even need to announce it formally. They have actually not done it (other than in legal statements); and that is why for example we do not have yet formal reviews etc and backers are not up in arms yet about the "deliver a complete game when ready, not a half arsed thing like other publishers".

All CIG needs to do is to treat SC as already released (early access) accounting and tax wise, and nobody (except tax authorities implicitly given their tax filings) need to really be aware of it. Magic.

And just like that they are free of any actual delivery liabilities, and also free to issue dividends and returns for investors whenever needed based on the Calders investment conditions, whatever those may be.

As for
While p.27 suggests pledges are treated as 'deferred revenue':
Heh:
Any pledge receipts that have not yet been spent on the development of the game are treated as deferred revenue

Not really much deferred revenue then ;)

Also, remember that is only the UK side of the equation. We know very little about how revenue is treated across the pond. For all we know eventual returns to investors (other than the known dividends) could have been established for exemple as an actual liability/loan type of obligation, or even through billing a fake 3rd party company for "services" rendered or... there are tons of creative ways to ensure returns get to the right port. All of which I am sure both Ortwin/Chris and the Calders, given their track record, are intimately aware of. ToS wise, all that can then easily be made part of what CIG describes in the ToS as the "Game Cost", i.e. money spent in the development of the game.

Loans and similar liabilities in particular would be also shown in a balance sheet, which is a basic element of accounting info that has been sorely missing in all CIG´s annual accounts "blogs" over the years.
 
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TLDR:

* Aiming for 3.18 Evocati & PTU in September.

* The 1-3 month trial period got squeezed. It's now supposed to go live with IAE in November...

[Given 3.17's current stability, this fast turnaround should get, interesting ;)]

'Progress' changes:

All these have been removed:

  • New Interdiction Scenarios
  • Environmental Space Missions
  • RSI Apollo
  • Tumbril Ranger
  • Persistent Hangars
They added the Quanta missions like 2 weeks ago didnt they? (corrected by Jake 2 months ago).. yeeted yet again

Oh Tony...

* But they added the Corsair back in. So...ships!

* The mighty Cargo Refactor is 'still on track' for 3.18. But also 'has some important reviews during the next two weeks'...
 
Shinytracker dishing the real dirt as always ;)

Two ships removed completely from the tracker then. The mentioned Apollo, and the unmentioned Retaliator Base.

What could be more important than those dusty purchases? Why a new unannounced ship of course 😳

[1] deliverable(s) added:​

ship 32

2023-02-26 => 2023-06-15
Unannounced Vehicle

Lots of existing stuff pushed further into the future. But they're definitely 'still on track'...

Cargo System Refactor

  • End date has been extended from 2022-08-25 to 2022-11-17

Oh, 2 days before IAE. Perfect ;)

That makes 9 days before IAE look like a very long runway indeed :)

Salvage T0

  • End date has been extended from 2022-10-27 to 2022-11-10

And erm, wasn't someone going to eat a sock or something if... Q1 something something?

Jump Points

  • End date has been extended from 2023-03-16 to 2023-06-05

Persistent Streaming and Server Meshing

  • End date has been extended from 2023-03-28 to 2023-05-08

Pyro System, Planet, and Mission Setup

  • End date has been extended from 2023-03-01 to 2023-05-22

Also, some more of Dear Tony's projects may have slipped again:

Bounty Hunter V2

  • End date has been extended from 2023-03-01 to 2023-05-22

Quantum Simulation

  • End date has been extended from 2023-03-28 to 2023-06-19

And I don't even want to know what's happening here...

Mop & Bucket

2021-08-05 => 2023-05-14
  • End date has been extended from 2021-09-15 to 2023-05-14

Also just, Vehicle Tractor Beams, Life Support Tier 0, Cutting T2, those new cave archetypes they showed, tons of stuff, all pushed into the middle of next year ;)
 
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