Elite turning into Eve?

[Dreiden Kisada]

Nice thought there. I am glad it isn't the one I expressed. I was just saying the people that would be jailed in real life for their anti-social behavior should be virtually jailed in the game and removed from society, it's what societies do to survive.

Yes, it is actually what you said. "These ideals are truly a life's goal worth working very hard to achieve by resisting the temptation to succeed at any cost no matter how badly it destroys the very fabric of the civilization you are trying to live in. I hope that these players are quickly banned from the game so that it can be a world that we can all be proud to have a hand in creating."

Having a different opinion from you should not be ban worthy, nor should it be jail worthy. You think these people are willing to burn down the "civilization" of ED. When in actual fact they probably feel the same way about you.

 

[Herik]

Nice thought there. I am glad it isn't the one I expressed. I was just saying the people that would be jailed in real life for their anti-social behavior should be virtually jailed in the game and removed from society, it's what societies do to survive.

This has been said before; and it sits in the wings as a possibility.

 

[gamecat]

yes, I have seen this as well and it makes me start to hate the game because of a few bad apples. The game has potential, it has not come close to reaching that potential but it remains there. The players that use the term 'carebear' as an insult are a case in point, they believe that showing compassion is a bad thing in a society. They think that wanting to help others at the expense of your own rapid steamrolling to success is something that should be avoided. I have raised my children to hold compassion, kindness and selflessness in high regard. These ideals are truly a life's goal worth working very hard to achieve by resisting the temptation to succeed at any cost no matter how badly it destroys the very fabric of the civilization you are trying to live in.
I hope that these players are quickly banned from the game so that it can be a world that we can all be proud to have a hand in creating.

I want to be a Pirate so I disagree.

I want to play the game the way I want to play it; isn't this the foremost feature of this open ended space game.

I vehemently disagree with your wish to whitewash the game into some horrendous utopia (dystopia) of non-conflict group hugging. I get enough crap from Police and bounty hunters as it is. Bounty Hunter = Pretty much anyone in a combat ready ship.

Your mixing up real world ethics with the game world; which is a terrible idea. I want to sometimes be evil in the game, I want to sometimes be a selfish, mean, cruel, thieving braggart and menacing space pirate. I want others to have that opportunity too. I'm the opposite in real life as are the vast majority of people are on here. Don't try and deny me my game world I played in since a child, don't try and rip the heart of Elite out with bizarre moralising. Fire up your lasers I'm incoming!

 

[Genxav]

Remember people, the point of the thread is about the community not gameplay wise. just don't troll or derail.

 

[JeffRyan]

yes, I have seen this as well and it makes me start to hate the game because of a few bad apples. The game has potential, it has not come close to reaching that potential but it remains there. The players that use the term 'carebear' as an insult are a case in point, they believe that showing compassion is a bad thing in a society. They think that wanting to help others at the expense of your own rapid steamrolling to success is something that should be avoided. I have raised my children to hold compassion, kindness and selflessness in high regard. These ideals are truly a life's goal worth working very hard to achieve by resisting the temptation to succeed at any cost no matter how badly it destroys the very fabric of the civilization you are trying to live in.
I hope that these players are quickly banned from the game so that it can be a world that we can all be proud to have a hand in creating.

I agree with you other than that part about banning.

I want to be a Pirate so I disagree.

I want to play the game the way I want to play it; isn't this the foremost feature of this open ended space game.

I vehemently disagree with your wish to whitewash the game into some horrendous utopia (dystopia) of non-conflict group hugging. I get enough crap from Police and bounty hunters as it is. Bounty Hunter = Pretty much anyone in a combat ready ship.

Your mixing up real world ethics with the game world; which is a terrible idea. I want to sometimes be evil in the game, I want to sometimes be a selfish, mean, cruel, thieving braggart and menacing space pirate. I want others to have that opportunity too. I'm the opposite in real life as are the vast majority of people are on here. Don't try and deny me my game world I played in since a child, don't try and rip the heart of Elite out with bizarre moralising. Fire up your lasers I'm incoming!

I agree with you too.

This because i'm a balanced person. Or possible I have multiple personality disorder. Or maybe I can apply real world values to my gaming experience but realise that not everybody has to. I also distinguish between PvP and griefing. The first is acceptable, the second is not. The second is when I'm harassed online and not because someone PvPs me three times in a row one day.

I don't PvP btw, my ship is equipped to 'leg it'.

 

[Wisdomlikesilence]

For starters there is not enough smack talk in the forums so on that basis I would say no its not turning into Eve.

For now at least.

As an 8 year Eve "veteran", the smack talk was an important part of "The metagame", and "the metagame" is how Goon + Co. ultimately won the great war as I remember. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

That's not likely to happen here as Elite is not a single sharded game. Moreover it does not have elaborate mechanics for social organisation. Thus It does not have Groups which mirror with great fidelity the size, functions and personnel of real corporations, down to PR and Spin. There are also no imperatives to spy on each other, or put out false narratives which can tip large organisations into a fail cascade. Without that poisoned well from which to draw, the commentariat will have little reason to devolve into a bottomless swamp which bubbles necrotically with the rage of impotent martinets.

A lot of people are asking for more social aspects to Elite. Just be careful what you wish for.

 

[mitchman]

As an 8 year Eve "veteran", the smack talk was an important part of "The metagame", and "the metagame" is how Goon + Co. ultimately won the great war as I remember. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Wow, that yellow color.

Anyway, my corp in EVE (CoC and later OMNOR) had standing orders to not smack talk in any way, shape or form, and behave honorably and not use underhand tactics or "exploits". Not all coming from EVE is a smack talker and fill these forums with garbage and I would appreciate it people here didn't expect us to. I don't think Elite will turn into EVE even game mechanics wise, it's lacking the depth of many years of development and the combat is so different. But it certainly could take a clue or two from EVE, as it has in some aspects already.

 

[gamecat]

The great thing about Elite is player preference. If you don't like any player interaction play solo. If someone griefs you just block them.

Eve has none of this, it relied heavily on corp interactions/ protection on a single mega server which allowed Goon type attitudes to prevail where 'winning' was defined as undermining and ruining the game for everyone but Goon; while using real world bullying tactics to undermine CCP and players to twist the game into Goon Online. Eve isn't really a game it's more an online social experiment to some extent. This degree of commitment and involvement is what creates such vitriol on the forum.

Elite by its design can avoid this entirely. I wouldn't think Goon is interested in this game as it breaks power bases and wrestles control from online mob clans and breaks it up into palatable chunks that casual players can dip into without being manipulated and controlled by a bunch of no life geeks. I salute DB and the Dev team on this approach. Eve for me had the life kicked out if it with mega corps and clan mobs. It just felt like a job in the end if you play casual. I don't have time to pour thousands in hours into an ever greater demanding time sink. I think the lighter social and twitch gameplay of Elite is just right. It stops the MMO stat geeks finding perfect strategies, in this game you have to use your dexterity skills not spreadsheets, this I love. There's no rush, no competition to race against, even at this stage it's immersive, relaxing and terrifying. I hope and I think the community does reflect this more friendly 'gamer' approach in the forums rather than the Eve ego mass control hyper confrontational social experiment mess that is it's community.

 

[Dreiden Kisada]

The great thing about Elite is player preference. If you don't like any player interaction play solo. If someone griefs you just block them.


Elite by its design can avoid this entirely. I wouldn't think Goon is interested in this game as it breaks power bases and wrestles control from online mob clans and breaks it up into palatable chunks that casual players can dip into without being manipulated and controlled by a bunch of no life geeks.

So, first point. The idea that you have that we're not interested in this game is laughable.

The second point, is that you say that it's a great thing that Elite is about player preference. And when some people express that preference they're "destroying the game". The OP's fear that ED will turn into Eve forums is crazy on the face of it. There's no danger of that happening. Move on.

 

[Unfluffydave]

Elite turning into EVE?

Nah, can you really see a player of Elite defacing a real life monument because they did not like another player of Elite?

 

[Avnas]

good post OP we need tractor beams

 

[BoydofZINJ]

Eve in mining is so fun sometimes you think about grabbing a pencil and stabbing your eye. Elite has figured out a way to make this worse? I know... i know... how and why!

 

[dean0001]

I am not a big fan of Eve they boxed themselves in with the idea of the plex system and used the pirates to exploit bugs to stop free gameplay. gambling in trading became absolute loss due to the atrocious amount of scamming. When they introduced the "code" pirates I quit playing noticing they were invulnerable at times. The idea of infinite planets any direction is excellent if someone wants to play like a pirate they can and I can go far away build up and return when I feel adequate and ready for PVP. Eve online was built for team work and big corps but it looked like to me the "main" established pirate corp was built into the game. I built a corp and it fell apart then I Mined to build on my own with an alt and paid every month and never did achieve a free game play. If people build a game where it is impossible to get ahead and you just limp on thinking their is a chance they can only fool me once I will not be paying money to be bullied. Some things went on in Eve that were atrocious and the biggest one was the open bounty system another money trap where rude players put Bounties on everyone in the help section I was in there asking about player bases and how to start them. I never caught on that player bounty system was yet another dirty scheme to stop free game play and I put some good bounties on them only to find out they would use an alt to take the bounty. The trading system was extremely complex I tried to reinvest plex to make a profit using high trading skills only to find another type of block for free game play when people bartered with phony accounts and only had to put ten % percent up front giving false market info when you tried to figure out trends. Eventually I figured out a lot of the fancy complications in Eve only to find out they kept you running in circles paying for plex. This all goes back to the original concept of Eveonline and that is to design a game to keep you struggling so hard you do not realize the guy kicking you in the butt and you are paying them for it. I do not blame Eve developers for my experience after all there is the old saying " let the buyer beware" I ended up skilling up a stealth ship in the game and found I could get further out and practically dance around the pvp players but the game mechanics left the ship so weak all you could do is look around. The second you tried to take on Npc's or players you were swarmed. Exploring in Eve online was a disaster I hauled back junk and trincuts with no value to other players and no idea if I found anything valuable. I think Eve online succeeded so long because people have a funny way of reacting to struggle just like struggling to the end of a bad movie just to say you made it and then recommend it to others so they to can know your pain. I am sure people have found "free game play" in eve online and flourished and really proved themselves talented but for me my days of Eve online are over unless they throw in another free ten days and I will take a look at their expense. In Elite dangerous I came across the crazy players that reminded me of Eve and for once I felt it was good to see a game that gives us a level playing field or actually give me an intellectual advantage. I know from experience that player is out there that reminds me of my chess playing years where I reigned King of the playground amongst family and friends. Then one day this guy was outside the library playing a dozen players at once and I was skunked badly. I am guessing I figured out why they call this game "Elite Dangerous" lol

 

[Genxav]

I am not a big fan of Eve they boxed themselves in with the idea of the plex system and used the pirates to exploit bugs to stop free gameplay. gambling in trading became absolute loss due to the atrocious amount of scamming. When they introduced the "code" pirates I quit playing noticing they were invulnerable at times. The idea of infinite planets any direction is excellent if someone wants to play like a pirate they can and I can go far away build up and return when I feel adequate and ready for PVP. Eve online was built for team work and big corps but it looked like to me the "main" established pirate corp was built into the game. I built a corp and it fell apart then I Mined to build on my own with an alt and paid every month and never did achieve a free game play. If people build a game where it is impossible to get ahead and you just limp on thinking their is a chance they can only fool me once I will not be paying money to be bullied. Some things went on in Eve that were atrocious and the biggest one was the open bounty system another money trap where rude players put Bounties on everyone in the help section I was in there asking about player bases and how to start them. I never caught on that player bounty system was yet another dirty scheme to stop free game play and I put some good bounties on them only to find out they would use an alt to take the bounty. The trading system was extremely complex I tried to reinvest plex to make a profit using high trading skills only to find another type of block for free game play when people bartered with phony accounts and only had to put ten % percent up front giving false market info when you tried to figure out trends. Eventually I figured out a lot of the fancy complications in Eve only to find out they kept you running in circles paying for plex. This all goes back to the original concept of Eveonline and that is to design a game to keep you struggling so hard you do not realize the guy kicking you in the butt and you are paying them for it. I do not blame Eve developers for my experience after all there is the old saying " let the buyer beware" I ended up skilling up a stealth ship in the game and found I could get further out and practically dance around the pvp players but the game mechanics left the ship so weak all you could do is look around. The second you tried to take on Npc's or players you were swarmed. Exploring in Eve online was a disaster I hauled back junk and trincuts with no value to other players and no idea if I found anything valuable. I think Eve online succeeded so long because people have a funny way of reacting to struggle just like struggling to the end of a bad movie just to say you made it and then recommend it to others so they to can know your pain. I am sure people have found "free game play" in eve online and flourished and really proved themselves talented but for me my days of Eve online are over unless they throw in another free ten days and I will take a look at their expense. In Elite dangerous I came across the crazy players that reminded me of Eve and for once I felt it was good to see a game that gives us a level playing field or actually give me an intellectual advantage. I know from experience that player is out there that reminds me of my chess playing years where I reigned King of the playground amongst family and friends. Then one day this guy was outside the library playing a dozen players at once and I was skunked badly. I am guessing I figured out why they call this game "Elite Dangerous" lol

Dude, at least separate that wall into paragraphs my eyes are bleeding

 

[dean0001]

exactly, I came to the same conclusions in my other post but you hit the nail on the head. I hope they have some hidden surprizes like X3 I always wanted that game to be an MMO and looks like Elite might be that way. In X3 I found a playable Goner supercarrier and that made my day.

 

[dean0001]

As an 8 year Eve "veteran", the smack talk was an important part of "The metagame", and "the metagame" is how Goon + Co. ultimately won the great war as I remember. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

That's not likely to happen here as Elite is not a single sharded game. Moreover it does not have elaborate mechanics for social organisation. Thus It does not have Groups which mirror with great fidelity the size, functions and personnel of real corporations, down to PR and Spin. There are also no imperatives to spy on each other, or put out false narratives which can tip large organisations into a fail cascade. Without that poisoned well from which to draw, the commentariat will have little reason to devolve into a bottomless swamp which bubbles necrotically with the rage of impotent martinets.

A lot of people are asking for more social aspects to Elite. Just be careful what you wish for.

The game mechanics of Eve was specifically designed for that corporation to win even now pirates called "code" take over hisec sectors and are invulnerable. They are gatekeepers to insure the freeplay is never possible leaving solo players intellectually bankrupt reduced to basics. The game was either a social experiment in frustration or simply designed to line the pockets of the owners or possibly the power of the goons overwhelmed the owners of Eveonline. Maybe in the eight years of play you saw something different than what I seen in the last three years I played in Eveonline I noticed in MMO's the game mechanics evolve to a complex state and become fractal. I am not trying to use big words just fractal seems to be a good name for it. A lot of people studying fractal say eventually the fractal design or complexity turns into such a monstrosity it becomes literally inintelligible, if the game was not tailored to the goons then they won simply by design and all MMo's will have the same fate as Eve unless they learn from it. I did enjoy some parts of Eve and I am sure the pirates enjoyed me begging them to spare me from starting all over again from what took months to achieve. I played World of Warcraft got to level 85 and quit because there was no more levels at the time one could imagine where that game has went after I left several years ago the game is forced to evolve into the fractal equation and simply cuts out the new guy and that is not good growth the owners become scared and maybe that is what happened to Eveonline. You and me see Eveonline in two different ways just like the ambiguous art where artists can trick your eyes and people can see completely separate pictures in the same artwork. You see the goons victory I see the paradigm created by the MMO experience ultimately leading to what seems to look like kaos but on another level it is fractal.

 

[Tygar]

Tractor beams...oh god bring them into the game!, Mining is too slow to make it fun or as profitable as the other roles in ED

Maybe a suggestion, build the Tractor beam function into the laser, this way not everyone would have it and it would make the miner role at least twice as quick. Don't get me wrong I like mining the added processing bit is a great idea..
But its such a 'time sink'

if FtL Drives exist, simple tractor beam technology is sure to

 

[Tarman]

Tractor beams...oh god bring them into the game!, Mining is too slow to make it fun or as profitable as the other roles in ED

Maybe a suggestion, build the Tractor beam function into the laser, this way not everyone would have it and it would make the miner role at least twice as quick. Don't get me wrong I like mining the added processing bit is a great idea..
But its such a 'time sink'

if FtL Drives exist, simple tractor beam technology is sure to

That's a non-sequitur and a non-starter. Tractor tech is off the table by design. Drones are in the works however.

 

[Tygar]

That's a non-sequitur and a non-starter. Tractor tech is off the table by design. Drones are in the works however.

The drones will be automated? if they are I can live with that, if not its a waste of development time as you'll still have to spend time manually collecting the minerals.

 

[SlinkyJim]

Can we get some things straight here..... EvE is EvE, Elite is Elite and the X series well they're the X series, ALL Space sims are similar to a degree (They are all in Space)... however each has its own merrits and drawbacks each has its own implementations of technology and each has its own niche and playing style.

Let FD develop what they initially envisioned, and play it to the best of your ability, if you dont like it, or moan constantly something isnt how you'd like it because another space game has it.... well go play it instead.

EvE player.. 10 Years! god is it really that long
X series player
Elite (various guises over the years)
Earth and beyond (by westwood studios)

Each had its merits, each had its play style and each was enjoyed for what it was... A GAME!