Fleet Carriers (Lite)

[Faded Glory]

Long time player here (since premium beta), got lots of credits, all the ranks, lots of ships...

I'd like to have a 'carrier' ship, limited capacity, that would allow me to dock three or four of my existing ships so I can wander off and do 'stuff' wherever I happen to find myself. At the moment, I'm a little bit restricted in where I go, as my ships are located at a home base (or two), so I find myself logging in, looking for something to do, perhaps taking a mission or two, then ultimately running out of enthusiasm - I just don't want to do another (insert mission type) mission for the same old factions.

But if I decide to go and ally myself with another system's factions, then I have to transport a bunch of ships over. Not a problem, but again a bit limiting.

What I think I might enjoy, is being able to load up say a general purpose mission runner, a combat oriented ship, an exploration based ship and a canyon racer and just head off for a while and see where things take me. It wouldn't be all encompassing, I'd still have twenty odd ships that I'd not have (immediate) access to, but it would give me a variety of activity options and allow me to find places that I otherwise would likely never visit in the game, just for fun...

So, make this carrier pricey by all means. For me, the capacity to dock two small ships and two medium ships would be ideal, I'd certainly accept three small and one medium, even four small, but that would be limiting for the general purpose mission runner I think. It'd be good if it had a reasonable jump range, but wouldn't necessarily need to be huge, perhaps 15Ly? After all, the idea isn't to get somewhere fast, but to be able to roam around looking for interesting or fun systems that I can then interact with using the other ships on board.

The idea is not to give me an advantage with regards to BGS or in fact any specific activity, quite the opposite in fact, just to let me wander the galaxy with no real goals in mind and see where things take me while still having access to a small number of specialized ships that I've spent the time to outfit and engineer as I want them. The galaxy is huge, even the bubble, and this would just give players who have potentially achieved their 'goals' a new lease of game life to just pick up and wander with a small toolkit of favorite ships.

As for where the carrier goes when you fly off in one of the other ships, I'd suggest it behaves much as our current ships do when we get in the SRV. It can stay static in space (or landed on a planet?) and can be either dismissed, or will dismiss itself if the player gets out of sensor range, and can be subsequently recalled.

Anyway, just a thought, not likely to happen I know but I do think it could open up additional game avenues, especially for long time players.

 

[znôrt]

afaik carriers will be very expensive, if you want one solo you might start grinding now ...

however, i don't see how a fleet carrier would improve your gameplay? why would you schlepp all your ships around the galaxy? just move the one you need. since ship transfer is a thing where your ships are is pretty irrelevant. a simple taxi (cheap ship with large jump range) + ship transfer looks like could do the trick for you.

 

[Faded Glory]

afaik carriers will be very expensive, if you want one solo you might start grinding now ...

however, i don't see how a fleet carrier would improve your gameplay? why would you schlepp all your ships around the galaxy? just move the one you need. since ship transfer is a thing where your ships are is pretty irrelevant. a simple taxi (cheap ship with large jump range) + ship transfer looks like could do the trick for you.

Don't mean to sound rude, and thanks for replying, but I'm not asking for what I suspect FD have in mind for fleet carriers. Hence the title said carriers lite.

I don't want to schlepp all my ships around the galaxy, just three or four ships that would give me a variety of play options should I find a place of interest. I've done what you suggested plenty of times, but in the end it just becomes the same as being in your home location, except it's somewhere else, and then when you've done what you want, which might get dull soon, you are stuck with a bunch of ships in some random place.

I just think it would be fun to have a small mobile base and go exploring the bubble and not have to mess around with ship transfer. If I find a planet with vast deep canyons, I don't want to wait for my canyon racer to turn up, I'd like to just hop into it and play, then, when I'm done, which might well be after one or two runs, I can move on to find a deeper and vaster canyon somewhere else.

 

[znôrt]

no, the idea is of course cool. it would be even awesomer if you could stuff that mobile base full with turrets. even more if you could eva around it and service or add components ... wait a sec, i'm getting a bit carried away ...

 

[Faded Glory]

no, the idea is of course cool. it would be even awesomer if you could stuff that mobile base full with turrets. even more if you could eva around it and service or add components ... wait a sec, i'm getting a bit carried away ...

I'll be honest, I don't need it to be stuffed with turrets, I don't see it as a combat ship, or a trade ship, or an exploration ship... Just a big taxi that I can put a few of those specialist ships in and go wander and play the game.

As to the walking around bit, nah... I'm just thinking of a more flexible way I can enjoy the gameplay we've already got.

 

[metatheurgist]

I think it would be smart for FD to write game features that can be used by ALL players.

 

[lenna]

I think it would be smart for FD to write game features that can be used by ALL players.

I think that is where the OP is coming from - I do not think they are really referring to the Squadron Fleet Carriers that FD were/are considering implementing as part of the 3.x updates.

I'd like to have a 'carrier' ship, limited capacity, that would allow me to dock three or four of my existing ships so I can wander off and do 'stuff' wherever I happen to find myself.

So, make this carrier pricey by all means. For me, the capacity to dock two small ships and two medium ships would be ideal, I'd certainly accept three small and one medium, even four small, but that would be limiting for the general purpose mission runner I think. It'd be good if it had a reasonable jump range, but wouldn't necessarily need to be huge, perhaps 15Ly? After all, the idea isn't to get somewhere fast, but to be able to roam around looking for interesting or fun systems that I can then interact with using the other ships on board.

As for where the carrier goes when you fly off in one of the other ships, I'd suggest it behaves much as our current ships do when we get in the SRV. It can stay static in space (or landed on a planet?) and can be either dismissed, or will dismiss itself if the player gets out of sensor range, and can be subsequently recalled.

Interesting idea - could be based on say the T9/T10D and referred to as a mobile base:-

1. Start with the T9/T10 design
   1. Remove most optional internals (leave say 5 optional internals - C8/C7/C6/C1/C1)
   2. Remove SLF capability (perhaps)
   3. Place an S-Size pad on the top of the hull (I don't think an M-Size pad would fit)
2. Pad operation could only work when landed on a planet (perhaps)
3. Limit number of docked ships to 3 S class vessels
4. Ship transfer only available while docked at a station with a shipyard
5. No repair/rearm facilities
6. No cargo transfer between the mobile base and docked ships (nor docked ships and each other)
7. Death of mobile base would require rebuy of all docked ships to be applied to the owner
8. Death of owner carried by mobile base while away from it would result in either
   1. Losing the smaller ship and respawning at the mobile base
   2. Respawning at a station and having to fly to the system where the mobile base is located
9. Allow it to combine multi-crew/wing mechanics
   1. Other players only able to dock with the base at explicit permission of the owner
   2. While docked other players would take a multi-crew position
   3. Other players would ONLY be able to leave the base in the ship they arrived with
   4. Mobile base would NOT count as a respawn point for other players
10. Price wise - 250M for the hull?

 

[Faded Glory]

although I am in the same situation and can understand how CONVENIENT and stupidly useful for boasting to people who need to boost their ego in a virtual world because they have none IRL this would be,

Yes, the idea is that it provides a convenient way to engage with different activities available in the game in a variety of locations, without having to wait for ships to transfer in order to play and without needing to commit to a specific location. Probably tens, if not hundreds of thousands of systems in the bubble, yet I'm sure many players end up staying in just a few systems because that is where their ships are.

As to needing to boost ego's, that's certainly not something I considered...

I much prefer carriers to be restricted to squadrons to promote cooperative play and generate emergent content.

Having a personal carrier would diminish the advantages of being in a squadron.

Blaze your own trail. If you enjoy multi-play then presumably you'd join a squadron, this wouldn't be useful to you or even of interest. It is also I would imagine fundamentally different from what FD will do for squadron carriers which will be a multi-play tool.

Having things restricted to multi-play to try and force people to play the game a way they aren't interested in won't work.

I think that is where the OP is coming from - I do not think they are really referring to the Squadron Fleet Carriers that FD were/are considering implementing as part of the 3.x updates.

Yes, that's right, hence why I called them fleet carriers lite.

 

[Faded Glory]

I probably need to clarify my post: what ED needs less now is power creep. I categorize your suggestion in the power creep category. A private mobile platform that makes trivial the need to join squadrons is going to take away one of the most anticipated feature of squadrons. You say it won't work, I say it will because a rabbit loves a carrot.

If you can get that carrot more easily it won't work.

I'm not sure why you would see a carrier lite (or mobile base) capable of carrying three or four small (with perhaps the possibility of having one medium) ships on it something that would compete in any way with a squadron carrier, which I presume will be able to accommodate many more ships, and presumably not have any restrictions on ship size.

In terms of power creep, I can't see one player with access to three or four ships being much of a threat to a squadron. And that in any case is not the intention of the suggestion.

From my perspective, there is no need to join a squadron, just a desire to do so to engage in cooperative gameplay. In any case, this suggestion isn't about squadrons, not even multi-play, I'd think it would be most useful to long time solo players.

It's about enabling a player in whatever mode they choose, to have a way of roaming the huge game world with a small selection of ships, different tools that they can use to engage with it, and to have those ships / tools on hand, not to have to wait around for the right tool to arrive.

 

[Berpol]

I could see some type of capital ship. The basic ship is a bridge, a connecting corridor and a drive. You can add 3 modules to the corridor holding 1 large, 2 medium or 4 small ships. You can jump once per day up to 500 ly resulting in a temporary station. Crew Lounge only allows you to use already hired pilots, outfitter allows you only to exchange stored modules, you can only exchange ships, repair and refuelling facilities have to be bought ...

 

[lenna]

Because medium ships are the strongest in pvp now and the capability of bypassing the limitations in term of fsd range of the strongest combat ships is power creep. You are basically making the lousy jump range of certain ships not an handicap anymore.

The blaze your trail argument is being continuously used in power creep suggestions without accounting for the complicated balance and mechanics this game struggles with.

I would agree that allowing the proposed vessel to dock M class vessels might be a bit OP; However, most of the decent M-class vessels can have reasonable jump ranges and there is no reason why the proposed ship would necessarily exceed the jump range limitations of such ships.

If implemented along the lines I proposed - basing the ship on a T9/T10D, limited to 3 S-size vessels, no repair/rearm, and not allowing it to be a rebuy respawn point - then there should be little by way of power creep for PvPers.

 

[Faded Glory]

Because medium ships are the strongest in pvp now and the capability of bypassing the limitations in term of fsd range of the strongest combat ships is power creep. You are basically making the lousy jump range of certain ships not an handicap anymore.

The blaze your trail argument is being continuously used in power creep suggestions without accounting for the complicated balance and mechanics this game struggles with.

Well, in return I could say that the incessant balancing between players for PvP is having a detrimental affect on the PvE side of the game.

But I never intended this suggestion to open up a tedious 'open vs solo' debate, and I sense a bit of a knee jerk reaction here. Your reference to bypassing lousy jump range for combat ships seems extreme, when I suggested in the OP that a carrier might have a jump range of 15Ly. Hardly excessive, and I don't think any of my ships, combat or otherwise have a jump range smaller than that.

Again, I want to try and clarify where this suggestion is coming from, and it's certainly not multi-crew or multi player or getting advantages over other players, or bypassing limitations of certain ships.

I have been playing the game for over four years, I have done all the ranking up I can do, I have more credits than I know what to do with, I have a decent number of ships, many outfitted and engineered for specific tasks because that gave me a goal to pursue while playing. And for four years, I have played primarily in two or three small areas of the bubble - with the exception of my exploration gameplay.

Yes, I can move my 'fleet', or a portion of it, somewhere else (I have done this already) and do the same gameplay there that I do in my 'home' system, and when the reason for that move ends, I can move them back, or somewhere else. But I'm tired of that, and genuinely disappointed that I am using so little of the vast game world that the stellar forge has provided, and even so little of the FD created bubble. It seems daft.

I would like to roam, jump from one system to another as I do with exploration, but instead of looking for ELW or whatever, I might be looking for a body with smooth deep canyons that I can race in or perhaps a pirate infestation I can help counter before moving on. But since I don't want to be limited to just one activity, I'd like to have a couple of other ships that I could use for those other activities along the way, either something generic or multi-purpose, or perhaps a more specific Thargoid fighting ship, or a ship designed for attending distress signals.

As I said in the OP, I doubt this would ever happen anyway, and if FD wanted to give something like it a try I'm sure they would balance it in some way. I really don't think a ship that can carry at most four ships, predominantly small ones, is even remotely overpowered especially as we can only fly one ship at a time, and nowhere in the OP or anywhere else did I suggest that NPC's (or other players) should be able to join in and fly any of the others. I think if players want multi-crew and multi player capabilities with carriers they should wait for squadron fleet carriers.

 

[lenna]

Even then, I think it would be better to solve the issue by making it possible to send ships to other stations in advance from the station you depart from instead of giving all players carriers.

That would not actually achieve the same ends - it would not accommodate the situations the OP is seemingly wanting to address. As I see it, their proposal should have no impact on the meaningfulness of squadrons nor create any true power creep situation for PvP.

As for giving everyone player carriers, it would hardly be giving anyone anything and is more fair and reasonable than the squadron carriers FD were going to implement (and may not do so now).

 

[sandkid]

A long time ago in a different forum...I suggested something along lines of OP. At risk of repeating what's already been said, my two credits then (and now):

I personally like the idea of the 'Light Carrier' or 'Barge Ship' being restricted behind certain thresholds beyond the size of your wallet. I always had such a useful (but not necessary) feature in mind as a premium purchase for triple elite commanders. A 'right on' from the Pilot's Federation, essentially.

Beyond that...my thoughts on actual gameplay and usage:

• Limited jump range. As said, it's a taxi for multiple ships, not an explorer. It's main perk is it saves you moving costs and time (particularly in the fly one ship, now fly back in your favorite taxi (DBX), fly another ships, move taxi to location, fly it back...so on so forth)
• Minor if any module optional outfitting beyond decent sized shields. Not intended as cargo freighter, but if modules ever become transportable it would certainly be useful for it to carry a small stash of modules (20 maximum?)
• They ought to be attackable and the ships within are indeed up for destruction. This would require a reworking on how rebuy currently works as it can't read multiple ships lost. Hefty bill potentially, but that's the game.
• Dockable with large stations only - new pad size 'Huge' on exterior, likely requiring docking computer or swanky flight skills. This solves the 'what happens to it when not in use' question. It's docked.

Personally, I'd love to be able to dock into and out of the ship myself - in space - but that is probably not possible in the current (or near future) iterations of the game. The closest we have is SLF and mother ship. In lieu of this, the ship can only transfer its cargo ships when docked. This is HIGHLY limiting outside of colonized space for obvious reasons. Again, not an explorer though - it's a freighter.

Would I like a mini-carrier for deep space? You bet your ass I would! But being reasonable, it's probably not possible. Do want, prepared to accept it won't happen.
There's my two credits on a 'personal' carrier as opposed to the Squadron Carriers.

 

[Nadreck]

Well, the OP has my support, as I had the same Idea last year: a Large-pad dockable "Pocket Carrier" capable of carrying about 3 Small-pad ships, with a Small pad on its topside (usable either in space or when landed on a planet), and dismissable.

I see no reason why this couldn't be developed alongside "true" Fleet Carriers as a cheaper option primarily aimed at single players. And hopefully there will be a range of Carriers with different capabilities and prices, it would be such a waste of effort to develop only one generic Carrier.

 

[Faded Glory]

yeah yeah, of course. I am a jerk pvper. Solid way to push your idea. I am just highlighting the flaws I see in your proposal and I have to be called a jerk. You should apologize.
Seems like being inclusive to other communities works for every category except the pvp one in your mind.

What detrimental effect? Because you cannot become god and clear a cz or hazres in 2 minutes while you watch netflix?

It is not extreme, if you cared to play pvp once you would have a bigger picture and understand why it is important in the balance.

Go ahead then, let's break pvp balance so that you can have "fun" killing npcs in moments in your pve sessions.

Don't be silly, I didn't call you a jerk, or even imply it. I said there seemed to be a knee jerk reaction.

You pointed out a flaw that this suggestion would bypass the poor jump range of combat ships. I simply pointed out that in my OP, the suggestion was for a jump range of 15Ly, which is surely not excessive.

If you think I was being rude to you, read the rest of your post, dripping with condescending assumptions about how I (whom you do not know at all) play the game. I understand that balance is important (and there was an emoticon at the end of my first sentence indicating I was making a somewhat light-hearted statement), but it does go both ways, and the game isn't only about PvP just as it isn't only about PvE.

If somehow a small carrier, with a jump range of around 15Ly and capable of carrying four ships (typically small, although I'd like one medium) that you could only use one at a time is going to break PvP balance in the game, then I suggest that there may be something very wrong with PvP balance as it stands.

 

[Faded Glory]

So who was the knee jerk reaction from then?

A knee jerk reaction does not mean the person having the reaction is being a jerk.

You're of course entitled to give any feedback you want to the thread, but as I've said before, the intention is not for it to be a PvE vs PvP or open vs solo discussion. You clearly don't like the idea, and that's fine, I simply answered you because that particular objection that a 15Ly jump range would undermine the low jump ranges of combat ships didn't seem (IMO of course) to have much merit.

 

[Trotsky2112]

I think that is where the OP is coming from - I do not think they are really referring to the Squadron Fleet Carriers that FD were/are considering implementing as part of the 3.x updates.




Interesting idea - could be based on say the T9/T10D and referred to as a mobile base:-

1. Start with the T9/T10 design
   1. Remove most optional internals (leave say 5 optional internals - C8/C7/C6/C1/C1)
   2. Remove SLF capability (perhaps)
   3. Place an S-Size pad on the top of the hull (I don't think an M-Size pad would fit)
2. Pad operation could only work when landed on a planet (perhaps)
3. Limit number of docked ships to 3 S class vessels
4. Ship transfer only available while docked at a station with a shipyard
5. No repair/rearm facilities
6. No cargo transfer between the mobile base and docked ships (nor docked ships and each other)
7. Death of mobile base would require rebuy of all docked ships to be applied to the owner
8. Death of owner carried by mobile base while away from it would result in either
   1. Losing the smaller ship and respawning at the mobile base
   2. Respawning at a station and having to fly to the system where the mobile base is located
9. Allow it to combine multi-crew/wing mechanics
   1. Other players only able to dock with the base at explicit permission of the owner
   2. While docked other players would take a multi-crew position
   3. Other players would ONLY be able to leave the base in the ship they arrived with
   4. Mobile base would NOT count as a respawn point for other players
10. Price wise - 250M for the hull?

I like this idea. But the wiki says that the Fleet Carrier will be "a portable base of operations for squadrons". I was thinking less like a type 9/10, more like a jump-capable outpost or corolis starport (may have to have cooler design). I envision something more like this:
1. Megaship scale
1. make it outpost size, but look like a megaship
2. should have docking pads on inside or outside
3. should be less of a ship and more like a ferry
2. Facilities and Capabilities
1. Shipyard is a must, but no purchase capability. One ship per commander in storage.
2. Defences: must have something like turret defenses, and SLFs that players or their crew can pilot, but not random NPCs. This could function to allocate roles in the event of an attack on the carrier: some commanders to the SLFs, some man the turrets, and some hop their FDLs and blast the crap out of the invaders.
3. Should have Re-arm, Refuel, Repair services, otherwise its nothing more than a jump-capable chat room.
4. No general missions board or contacts, get rid of no-fire zone, to allow combat to occur without the defenders getting bounties in their own faction.
5. Big jump range, but executive controlled, jumps once a week to a system that wins a majority vote by members of the squadron.
6. No commodities market or outfitting services. No sense in making starports obsolete.
7. Give it a cargo hold, long distance hauling trips, use commanders ships as courier shuttles.
3. Role
1. should have adaptability, needs to be able to perform relatively well as an explorer, hauler, or fortress.
2. The squadron should be the controlling (and only) faction on the Carrier.
3. The squadron should be able to deny/allow access for any commanders who want to restock.
4.The squadron should be able to give out different missions, and give other players bounties. ( I judge thee... GUILTY!)

So yeah.

 

[zegram33]

Wow some unpleasant people on here.
On topic: being able to dismiss/recall a mothership would be pretty handy.
Sounds kinda like the system they have in NMS where you arnt really calling in a "ship" as much as you are a mobile base.

That would actually work as a balancing factor if the current idea is too OP (I don't think it probably IS, but for the sake of argument)- for whatever reason (launching recoil?) Mini carriers can only launch ships when either docked with a station, or landed on a planet. That way it absolutely positively CANNOT be abused, and cannot possibly effect either the pvp or pve meta.

honestly in that case id be happy with a larger jump range for the mothership, but that's just me

 

[lenna]

But the wiki says that the Fleet Carrier will be "a portable base of operations for squadrons".

The OP is not talking about that mess of an idea of FD's that is non-inclusive and ultimately a waste of time and resources IMO. Instead, they are actually referring to something that is more inclusive and will have utility for both PvP and PvE players regardless of the mode they choose to play.