Multi-Crew Enhancements

Hi all. It seems to me that multi-crew, on its face, sounds like a really cool concept just for the sheer novelty of the thing. And though in practice it can be pretty fun, its also very limited. Just a few minor additions would add some substance to what is currently an intriguing outline that is yet unfinished. Here are some of my personal suggestions.

1. Add a new role: Co-Pilot. Currently there isn't an awful lot for multicrew members to do, especially on ships that can't fit SLFs. This is a shame because many ships, such as the Cobra or Adder, are multi-crew capable, but there's no real point to having multiple crew members on those ships. My suggestion for a co-pilot role would allow crew members to take more control of their host's ship. Permission to use this role would have to be granted to individual CMDRs by the host, as a guard against internal sabotage. Co-Pilots would not be able to directly pilot the ship, but could perform operations within the ship to make piloting the ship easier for the helmsman. Co-Pilots could manage pips, access the galaxy map to plot routes, access the target panel to select a target's modules, access the modules and ship tabs to keep the ship from running out of power... basically they could control left and right hand panels while the Helmsman actually flew the ship.

2. Allow multiple Gunner roles: If I'm understanding correctly, currently there can only be one gunner on any given ship, even if that ship can support three crew members. The Helmsman ought to be able to create more Gunner roles and assign fire groups to them, that way one CMDR could control the guns on one side of the ship, and the other could control the guns on the other side.

3. Allow the use of muticrew and wings at the same time: Place a cap on the number of CMDRs that can be in a wing, maybe 6-8, that way the instancing issues that might come from having 12 players in one wing might cause could be avoided. It would still be possible to have four ships with two crew members each, or more likely one big ship with a full crew of three members and three small single pilot ships following.

4. Allow Crew-Mates to take control of SRVs: I understand this one is probably highly requested, and I understand it is probably a lot harder to implement than it sounds. SRVs work differently than SLFs, I'm sure, and it seems that telepresence cannot be used to control and SRV. But at the very least, a CMDR should be able to control the turret on the SRV while the other one drives? Perhaps this is a feature that is better off waiting until when/if space legs are added, and we can have an actual physical presence on other CMDR's ships or within their SRV. But still, it wouldn't be impossible to add into the game now, even if it makes little sense and is immersion breaking. After all, mutli-crew isn't supposed to make sense, its supposed to let you have fun with friends. And every game, no matter how realistic, needs some nonsensical elements, otherwise it isn't a fun game. (for instance, how do our escape pods always work 100% of the time and always take us to the nearest station immediately even if we are lightyears away?)

Those are just some of my ideas. Thanks for reading.
 
3. Allow the use of muticrew and wings at the same time: Place a cap on the number of CMDRs that can be in a wing, maybe 6-8, that way the instancing issues that might come from having 12 players in one wing might cause could be avoided. It would still be possible to have four ships with two crew members each, or more likely one big ship with a full crew of three members and three small single pilot ships following.
I doubt it - I am guessing here BUT my impression is that the Wing/Multi-Crew limits are not only there for good balancing reasons but also technological ones. ED is a peer to peer architecture and guaranteeing accuracy of positional data is probably a key requirement. In older peer-to-peer/player-server multiplayer games we were limited to 4 players typically and in games like Microsoft Freelancer this could go up to 16 but not necessarily reliably (server/game crashes and other issues being a concern). My guess is the 3/4 player limits of Multi-Crew and individual Wings is to ensure that no given group of players can avoid spawning with potential opponents in the Open environment.

People trying to form larger wings in Open via exploits should probably be treated as a form of cheater by FD IMO. If you want to play co-operatively with more players, then that is one of the things Squadrons are arguably there to facilitate.

What I think does need to be addressed though is instancing in Private Groups with low populations. I have observed cases in the past year (or so) where I could see a friend of mine in our private group but they could not see me. I had to leave the session and rejoin to work around it but the work-around is anything but guaranteed IME.
 
1. Add a new role: Co-Pilot. Currently there isn't an awful lot for multicrew members to do, especially on ships that can't fit SLFs. This is a shame because many ships, such as the Cobra or Adder, are multi-crew capable, but there's no real point to having multiple crew members on those ships. My suggestion for a co-pilot role would allow crew members to take more control of their host's ship. Permission to use this role would have to be granted to individual CMDRs by the host, as a guard against internal sabotage. Co-Pilots would not be able to directly pilot the ship, but could perform operations within the ship to make piloting the ship easier for the helmsman. Co-Pilots could manage pips, access the galaxy map to plot routes, access the target panel to select a target's modules, access the modules and ship tabs to keep the ship from running out of power... basically they could control left and right hand panels while the Helmsman actually flew the ship.
I kind of agree with this idea - but it should be perhaps treated as an alternate role for the SLF pilot role.
  1. Owner Pilot + M/C SLF + NPC SLF
  2. Owner SLF + M/C SLF + NPC Pilot
  3. Owner SLF + M/C Pilot + NPC SLF
Options 1 & 2 being the only current options available AFAIK.

2. Allow multiple Gunner roles: If I'm understanding correctly, currently there can only be one gunner on any given ship, even if that ship can support three crew members. The Helmsman ought to be able to create more Gunner roles and assign fire groups to them, that way one CMDR could control the guns on one side of the ship, and the other could control the guns on the other side.
I do not see this as being a viable or appropriate option.

4. Allow Crew-Mates to take control of SRVs: I understand this one is probably highly requested, and I understand it is probably a lot harder to implement than it sounds. SRVs work differently than SLFs, I'm sure, and it seems that telepresence cannot be used to control and SRV. But at the very least, a CMDR should be able to control the turret on the SRV while the other one drives? Perhaps this is a feature that is better off waiting until when/if space legs are added, and we can have an actual physical presence on other CMDR's ships or within their SRV. But still, it wouldn't be impossible to add into the game now, even if it makes little sense and is immersion breaking. After all, mutli-crew isn't supposed to make sense, its supposed to let you have fun with friends. And every game, no matter how realistic, needs some nonsensical elements, otherwise it isn't a fun game. (for instance, how do our escape pods always work 100% of the time and always take us to the nearest station immediately even if we are lightyears away?)
I get the impression that the SRV is disabled when in M/C (not tried it myself) and if so it is probably because of conflicts between how the SRV mechanics work and how multi-crew works. I suppose this could be potentially worked around by disabling ship dismissal/recall when combining Multicrew and SRV usage BUT I would say no to M/C SRVs in their current form.
 
I think the most urgent thing would be giving the crew something to do while the ship in in supercruise. They can already use the FSS but only while the ship is stationary. If they could do this while this pilot is flying, it would be much better. There is recent discussion about this elsewhere. Then there is a new job a crew member could do with permission:

Engineer. Can turn modules off and on to control power usage. Can use the AFMU. Also can set some modules on low power or overload them. Low power modules would use 2/3 of the power and be half as effective and they would shut down if run like this for too long. Overloaded modules would use twice the power and be 1/3 more effective, but they could burn out, shut down and take damage if not turned back to not returned to normal levels in time. This would be a Chinese plate game that could be used both in and out of supercruise.

Also the Captain should be able to set permissions to all the systems even before he opens his ship up for multicrew. I'm tired of allowing randoms come on my AX ship and not knowing how to use the Shutdown Field Neutraliser.

Brief look to the OP.

1. Co-pilot/navigator. Yes, this would be good. Similar to my engineer idea. Maybe he couldn't set the navigation targets, but he could highlight them to the pilot, who can then confirm or deny.

2. Multiple Gunners. I don't think this is so fruitful. Only benefits big ships that have all of their guns turreted. The better approach is to invent more roles.

3. Wings + MC. Yeah, I think the number of players is probably a netcode limitation, but even if it was capped just to the same total 4 as it is now, being able to combine the two would still be useful. Imagine 2 friends playing in a wing for a short session and a 3rd friend wants to join in, but he's too far away. He can just hop on one of the ships.

4. MC SRV, even if just for controlling the turret. Yeah, it's oft requested and I would be happy with it either way.
 
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3. Wings + MC. Yeah, I think the number of players is probably a netcode limitation, but even if it was capped just to the same total 4 as it is now, being able to combine the two would still be useful. Imagine 2 friends playing in a wing for a short session and a 3rd friend wants to join in, but he's too far away. He can just hop on one of the ships.
Agreed - This could be done in a very simple way too. Limit M/C + Wing Combo to cases where a Wing has 2 2-Crew ships.
 
I'm not familiar with the intricacies of how networking works, much less how FDev accomplishes it in ED. But yes, even limiting a wing to just four CMDRs would be an improvement. Obviously the more the merrier though.

As for things to do in Supercruise, this is an important issue that slipped my mind. Definitely the ability to use the FSS would be a great addition. This could also be helped with the co-pilot role I mentioned earlier, allowing the co-pilot to select destinations, etc. As for a possible engineer role, that is very similar to the Co-Pilot role I suggested, and its good to know other people see the value this could bring. Another note on Supercruise activities: what if Crewmates could operate an FSD Interdictor like it was a turret? It would be something to do, but it wouldn't do anything for the bulk of the time you spend in Supercruise doing nothing. Also, it might give crewed ships too much of an advantage.

When driving in an SRV with Multi-Crew enabled, I would imagine a similar system to what we have with SLFs would be useful, so that if the SRV gets too far away from the ship it gets reloaded into the ship. Once again, I understand this doesn't make an awful lot of sense with the current system, but anything to make the SRV bay something besides a useless brick in your multicrew ship would be a huge improvement.

Now for the multiple gunners role proposition, I don't see why it would be not viable, as in not possible. It seems like it would be the easiest thing here to implement, honestly. But I understand it might not be as fruitful, as pointed out it would be most useful on large ships designed for turrets. Perhaps instead of the Helmsman creating new roles, there could be roles already created that he could assign weapons to individually. Even just two is all that's needed since ships can only have three crew members. Still, that change should probably be lower priority, since the vast majority of MC ships would be unaffected.
 
What about twin SRVs from the same ship, or new SRVs that have dual seats and functions would also be sweet?
Horizons is such a "Scratch the surface" addon of possible content yet no new land vehicles for years..

Although rumor has it base-building and AI SRVs is on the cards for 2020.
 
I gave this some thought back when the MC was a new thing. In my mind, these crew jobs, especially the noncombat ones, would be tasks that one can easily slip into or out from. For example the navigation and power management tasks could both be done by one crewmember or they could be split to two players as need be. This might be confusing and cause interface conflicts so perhaps it'd be better to have more rigid roles and in case of these 2 jobs combine them both to "co-pilot".

One of my old supercruise ideas was that the crew could at least look around the ship and ID other ships. See if any of them is wanted and such. This was before FSS, but it could still be little useful and, I imagine, fairly easy to implement. Crew being able to interdict is an interesting idea, but it'd require a lot of co-operation between pilot and the crew. Fine with people who know each other, but someone just inviting randoms on board would probably want to disable it. Also yes, it'd be too much of an advantage. Avoiding capture arcs or trying to get target inside yours is part of that gameplay.
 
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