2.2 NPC Crew death after ship destruction

[DOCa Cola]

Just watched the stream and where NPC crew was introduced. A really cool feature.
It was said in the thread that a hired NPC dies when your ship is destroyed. I think that aspect should be reconsidered.


Why i suggest this is was how the 'relationship' to the higher NPC was presented in the stream. If you hire an novice NPC and he accompanies you a while and ranks up his combat level, he'd demand a lower cut from you compared to you an NPC you hire with a higher level from the start. They do this out of friendship or trust. And i think this is an important aspect that should be built on. NPCs shouldn't be treated as some kind of ammo restock. You should be able to 'bond' with your NPC crew as well, even if they have no personality.

There is little to bond to currently in ED. Maybe the Powerplay characters, but certainly not mission givers. In my opinion if crew just dies and are easily replaceable with some other face they are just another bunch of throwaway characters like mission givers.
NPC Crew have basically a one liner of background story, a face and a name. It will be hard enough to bond with them based on that.
So it'd be nice if they actually use escape pods as well and don't just die in the fire on the ship. It'd be nice to be able to rehire them afterwards. Maybe with an increased hire price or some lost combat experience.

Another user comments that captured the issue of NPC crew death well:

with the amount of ships being destroyed on an hourly basis, what's really going to happen? They'll become faceless drones to be sacrificed whenever your ship lands in danger. People won't get attached to them because they can't. Maybe the first one, maybe even the second, and third, but when you've gone through a dozen crew members and abandoned each one to their deaths, and no matter how many you've abandoned to their deaths there's always a ready supply of people willing to put their lives completely in your hands, it will reach the point where they can no longer be considered living people. Players will either become completely detached, or stop using them entirely.

How this could be approached:

Instead of NPCs just dying on the ship they'd use escape pods the same way your player character does
AND
You'd be able to re-hire them from the crew screen with optional: a higher price or a combat experience lost OR an increase of rehire costs after each death.

 

[lysan]

To me, they would need to rethink this mechanics, as ship do have more than one esc.pod.

What will happen when we can walk around? you will need to reach the Escpod before the ship blows up, what will happen if you don't manage to do so. A lot of questions are in the shadows at the moment.

 

[TheDayman]

I like the idea of NPC crew men being mortal. The stories people will tell about their deaths, plus your own attachment to them might make you reconsider certain engagements.

"Bob Hull sacrificed his life so I could get away from that Elite pirate Anaconda... *tears*"

 

[AdmiralFloof]

Seems like a good way to destroy any sense of attachment. C'mon FDev, we want to feel attached to these guys. You've talked about sense of realism and care for those mission giver NPC's, passengers, VIP etc, why can't we have that with our Fighter pilots as well? If the passengers which are mostly civilians knows how to use the escape pods, then I'm sure these trained fighter pilots could do it as well.

 

[LKx]

While having a very clear gameplay function, i consider quite cruel that only the ship owner (and passengers) have an all-mighty escape pod... They should charge you far more, just for that!

(I agree that they should survive too, and ask far more money to be rehired)

 

[Cynaqq]

Well, I don't understand how some people feel the exact opposite of how I feel about this thing...

For me, if the hired pilots were immortal, then I wouldn't care about them in the long run because, hell, I would just hire them again right?

Now, that I can lose them forever, I have an investment in them and a relationship. I'll be genuinely sad if I lost them, both as an asset and a friend.

How can one claim 'mortal' pilots are harder to get attached to than 'immortal' pilots is beyond me.

 

[CMDR-AD]

Perhaps instead of just flat out Crew death or immortality... Perhaps a chance of either outcome?

But yea, developing some relationship/attachment would be improved with some chance of survival, keeping them safe.

 

[Vasious]

Seems like a good way to destroy any sense of attachment. C'mon FDev, we want to feel attached to these guys. You've talked about sense of realism and care for those mission giver NPC's, passengers, VIP etc, why can't we have that with our Fighter pilots as well? If the passengers which are mostly civilians knows how to use the escape pods, then I'm sure these trained fighter pilots could do it as well.

Are you saying that you can never form an attachment with something there is a risk you might lose?

 

[DOCa Cola]

How can one claim 'mortal' pilots are harder to get attached to than 'immortal' pilots is beyond me.

Some people lose their ships more than others, especially players new to this game. They'd never have the chance to 'attach' to these NPCs and soon NPC 'personality' (the name and face) would be meaningless as you'd just get some replacements from the crew menu you'd not care much about.
It'd be nice to at least allow this to be an option, even if you'd have to invest more to get them back.

 

[Vasious]

Some people lose their ships more than others, especially players new to this game. They'd never have the chance to 'attach' to these NPCs and soon NPC 'personality' (the name and face) would be meaningless as you'd just get some replacements from the crew menu you'd not care much about.
It'd be nice to at least allow this to be an option, even if you'd have to invest more to get them back.

Will new players be needing NPC Pilots?

 

[CMDR Darkler]

Both sides of the argument are equally valid, perhaps meet in the middle, there is % chance the NPC dies (probably based on their experience level - i.e. Harmless have a higher chance than an expert etc). The NPC surviving is less likely to join up with you again unless you offer wads more cash because if it happens once.. it probably will happen again ?

 

[andrak]

Eh... I'm pretty sure actually that they clarified that NPC pilots DO NOT die on fighter destruction. The fighters are unmanned and the NPC pilot controls them as would the player.

 

[Shanaeri]

It'll wreck a lot a player events like the hunger games, demo derby's, races, bucky balling etc etc as who'll want to risk their high ranked pilot just for the sake of a few hours worth of events.

The concept is a nice one, the practicalities not so much

 

[Bzek]

Yeah, I am with Cynaqq on this one. I think having them being mortal is a better mechanic. Else they become faceless in the long run. Now you have a reason to miss them when they're gone, and a reason to form new 'relationships' with new pilots.

From a narrative point of view it is a great thing.https://forums.frontier.co.uk/member.php/106242-Cynaqq

 

[kdjac]

NPC ranks up so there would be a bond.

I dont want Wash, Jane, Zoe or Kaylee to die.

 

[Cynaqq]

Some people lose their ships more than others, especially players new to this game. They'd never have the chance to 'attach' to these NPCs and soon NPC 'personality' (the name and face) would be meaningless as you'd just get some replacements from the crew menu you'd not care much about.
It'd be nice to at least allow this to be an option, even if you'd have to invest more to get them back.

I would consider someone experienced enough to have a keelback (the lowest level ship to have a fighter bay) competent enough to take care of a hired NPC.

If they lose a few pilots in the beginning, then they'll hopefully more careful in the future, when they have more to lose in a pilot they watched rank up from whatever they hired them at, after many battles fought together. With their backstories and voice acting to boot, I don't think pilots being mortal will detract from the experience. Quite the opposite actually because you'll feel responsible for their safety.

Back in the day, when playing rainbow 6, I'd play the missions over and over until I beat them with all my crew intact, the same with games like x-com. This is a tried and true mechanic and props to FD for taking that route (in my opinion).

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Eh... I'm pretty sure actually that they clarified that NPC pilots DO NOT die on fighter destruction. The fighters are unmanned and the NPC pilot controls them as would the player.

Not fighter destruction. Main ship dies, you survive but your pilot dies with your main ship.

 

[Electric Kite]

Well, I don't understand how some people feel the exact opposite of how I feel about this thing...

For me, if the hired pilots were immortal, then I wouldn't care about them in the long run because, hell, I would just hire them again right?

Now, that I can lose them forever, I have an investment in them and a relationship. I'll be genuinely sad if I lost them, both as an asset and a friend.

How can one claim 'mortal' pilots are harder to get attached to than 'immortal' pilots is beyond me.

THIS.


Its like these guys never played XCOM.

Jesus.

 

[peteuplink]

Hang on a sec... I thought we weren't getting NPC crews? When did they spring this on us?

*edit*

Nevermind. Seen it now.

 

[nosleepdemon]

I think there should be a chance of death depending on factors like what caused your destruction, and what grade of life support module you have. An E grade life support and ship destruction by total hull loss for instance would result in an almost certain loss of all crew members. It would also be very important to offload crew members andto keep them on retainer, so that you are not locked into a particular ship or play style once you hire crew for it.

 

[RwD]

If a crew member dies, it will give you a reason for revenge