4 modded ships in a HAZRES.

[Conch]

last night i was in a full wing of modded ships, 2 condas a FAS and my corvette.. so we were with 7 ships if you count the SLF's.

i am sad to say... Hello kitty adventure island is more ingaging..

there seriously needs to change something with the spawns at a RES site, cause at the moment there is no other use for modded ships than to sealclub NPC's.
back in the day we had the Strong signal sources, with wings of up to 12.. now the biggest wing you will see is 3

please bring back the Dangerous.

 

[StiTch]

last night i was in a full wing of modded ships, 2 condas a FAS and my corvette.. so we were with 7 ships if you count the SLF's.

i am sad to say... Hello kitty adventure island is more ingaging..

there seriously needs to change something with the spawns at a RES site, cause at the moment there is no other use for modded ships than to sealclub NPC's.
back in the day we had the Strong signal sources, with wings of up to 12.. now the biggest wing you will see is 3

please bring back the Dangerous.

Thankyou ^

If a game gives you the means to develop power, it needs to give you something to do with it. Between neutered NPCs and utter lack of structure for PvP, there simply is nothing to do. And sorry but "you has most powerful ships, should be expected to melt everything" is not an answer. Last I checked, "play your way" was the forum mantra, so why is it acceptable to force players into mini rustbuckets to enjoy combat?

Moar scaling is 100% needed. Give another difficulty of zone or rebalance HazRES tier to actually be hazardous. Either way we need ships with more engineering and stronger wings (and preferably more likely to attack for no reason). I mean at least pre-2.2 I used to see the odd wing of 5 or 7 in a HazRES even if the wing marker didn't display properly, and these were the most PvE fun post 2.1 madness that I would have to this day

 

[Conch]

I need to spread rep to give you more. But good to see im not alone in this.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Opponent level scaling...ugh. The gamiest concept ever.
Your opponents level should be based on the situation/location.
Of course with the Engineered task force you assembled above....
I also find the statement that "...there is no other use for modded ships other then to sealclub NPC's" to be interesting.

 

[bubbabenali]

Honnestly, what did you expect?
You came with an army hunting pirates...

 

[Noctover]

I agree, the REZ sites need to adapt based on the number of active players and what they are flying.

The rez sites in Lidpar the last few days have been paralytically boring, just desperately trying to hit the ship before it evaporates!

I'll be honest, i'm not particularly great at combat, some basic pip management, FA OFF turning, but even solo i find haz rez to be a snooze fest.

Scale them!

 

[StiTch]

Opponent level scaling...ugh. The gamiest concept ever.
Your opponents level should be based on the situation/location.
Of course with the Engineered task force you assembled above....
I also find the statement that "...there is no other use for modded ships other then to sealclub NPC's" to be interesting.

To be clear I am not suggesting the NPCs actually scale with you as a player. With the zones and across their difficulties.

The difficulty range across the first half of ranks may as well not be a range. I hardly notice a change in ability until you reach the Dangerous rank, and even they can't bring a proper game.

Ideally we'd get a new type of zone. Let's call it "Salty Resource Extraction Site". Within this site are bigger, more aggressive wings of bigger ships with a modifier that gives the more engineered modules in total.

Honnestly, what did you expect?
You came with an army hunting pirates...

Then tell me where to take our armies? CZs? Don't make me laugh. That's even more of a massacre.

There is nothing in the game capable of standing up to an engineered wing of semi-competent pilots. It's not even a question.

 

[DukeIronHand]

What is a HazRez in game terms?
A mining spot where pirates gather to hit mining ships.
You bring a fleet of big modded player ships + SLF's and wonder if there is an issue?
I was not aware that a RES was supposed to be some big combat challenge - even Solo. It's pirates.

Isn't that what CZ's are for?
If you want "extra salt areas" (maybe in Anarchy systems or BGS War states?) I guess that's fine but not all of us travel in a fleet of huge Engineered ships.

 

[bubbabenali]

Then tell me where to take our armies? CZs? Don't make me laugh. That's even more of a massacre.

There is nothing in the game capable of standing up to an engineered wing of semi-competent pilots. It's not even a question.

You're right, there are no war zones for powerfull wings in the game yet, but auto adjusting Haz Res' to the wings power level is rather gamey.

Maybe a new zone type like CZs but more intense where sub factions fight over neighbouring uncontrolled Systems - maybe even with installations.

See, the problem about HazRes' is that they still are only extraction sites, having them swarmed with pirate battalions seems like a joke.

 

[StiTch]

You're right, there are no war zones for powerfull wings in the game yet, but auto adjusting Haz Res' to the wings power level is rather gamey.

Maybe a new zone type like CZs but more intense where sub factions fight over neighbouring uncontrolled Systems - maybe even with installations.

See, the problem about HazRes' is that they still are only extraction sites, having them swarmed with pirate battalions seems like a joke.

I was hoping for a new difficulty tier across the board, so new RES/CZ/Signal Source. But yeah as I said above I don't want any active scaling. Sites should not change to match their occupants. But if that's gonna be the case there needs to be sites for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

AFAIK the Game always had severe shortcomings when an instanced Wing is present in any type of RES.

Can't even recall how often I had a small Wing there, and the exact moment the Wingman joined the instance - the HazRES instantly transformed into a "PeaceRES".
Hardly a Wanted Eagle to be seen and the spawn rate drops to maybe 1 Ship per Minute.

Almost always end up flying circles patrolling space populated only by peaceful and undisturbed Miners.

Since a RES is fairly "gamey" and primarily still serves as a feeder for Bounty Hunters or to produce Mission Targets, it would need to scale up with both Wing size and Ship Mods (just as it tpyically does with Ship type/Combat Rank of Players entering it).
A Wing of 4 modded Player Ships would have to be approached by multiple Wings of 5-7 NPCs in order to maintain the "there's something to do for you" flow.

On the flipside, carrying an active Anti-Pirate Mission while being alone... And boy, suddenly there's more Targets than I could engage even in my modded Corvette (not always Mission Targets - but Targets nonetheless)

 

[Von Shadow]

1000000% this... this is my 'simplistic' solution i keep suggesting for fixing CZ/RES seal-clubbing with wings of engineered ships
I posted it in the beta feedback Sandy asked for regarding shields changes

My main thing of improvement for PVE combat would come from linking the RES/CZ spawn system into the system government/state/security level.
For example, head into a SOL res or LHS3447 starter system ... i'd expect the system to be policed super agressively, highly responsive and merciless to outlaws. Coversely the pirates there i would therefore expect to be at the bottom of the food chain in terms of ship class, AI rank, engineering, bounty.
In other words, give the newbies a place to learn the trade.

Go up to an 'average' system with middle security level ... similar low/med res i'd expect to be pretty well policed and have reasonable pirates in wings with better ai/ships.
Maybe the HAZ res start to get some larger ships and master/expert/dangerous level AI in wings or 3 and 4

Then go up to your low-sec/low-governing systems... i'd expect even the LOW res here to be reasonably well equipped pirates with the police 'barely there' (as in they can't cope) and the HAZ RES to be swarming with wings of deadly/elite in small wings with solid AI, engineering (minor) but a solid challenge to single human player.

Step up to anarchy/pirate owned systems.... all RES marked as 'HOSTILE' RES. In here should be large wings of elites with large bounties that a solo player should find pretty much impossible to handle. NPCs with top-end AI, solid ships with engineering mods.
This would be where wings players can have fun

CZ's can work similar.... the more dangerous the system - the more dangerous the RES.

Right now the RES are still a total snooze fest and nerfing shields isn't making life any more fun ... it just makes the fights quicker.... but we're still out-classing them.
I can regularly go into a HAZ RES and find just endless wings of 'master' eagles or whatever.... that's not 'hazardous'
RES spawning is still very very broken.

 

[rucky]

HazRes = Have a zippy Resource extraction site, with Resource = credits, and extraction meant from pirats.

Come'On, you're in a full enginered wing and want a challenge? Really?
Go there in a Wing of 4 Eagles, that's at least FUN!

 

[StiTch]

HazRes = Have a zippy Resource extraction site, with Resource = credits, and extraction meant from pirats.

What?

Come'On, you're in a full enginered wing and want a challenge? Really?
Go there in a Wing of 4 Eagles, that's at least FUN!

Oh, I never heard that before.

So I guess that FD put in all these engineers and mods exclusively for PvP right? *chuckles*

 

[DukeIronHand]

AFAIK the Game always had severe shortcomings when an instanced Wing is present in any type of RES.

Can't even recall how often I had a small Wing there, and the exact moment the Wingman joined the instance - the HazRES instantly transformed into a "PeaceRES".
Hardly a Wanted Eagle to be seen and the spawn rate drops to maybe 1 Ship per Minute.

Almost always end up flying circles patrolling space populated only by peaceful and undisturbed Miners.

Since a RES is fairly "gamey" and primarily still serves as a feeder for Bounty Hunters or to produce Mission Targets, it would need to scale up with both Wing size and Ship Mods (just as it tpyically does with Ship type/Combat Rank of Players entering it).
A Wing of 4 modded Player Ships would have to be approached by multiple Wings of 5-7 NPCs in order to maintain the "there's something to do for you" flow.

On the flipside, carrying an active Anti-Pirate Mission while being alone... And boy, suddenly there's more Targets than I could engage even in my modded Corvette (not always Mission Targets - but Targets nonetheless)

But isn't that - dare I use the word in a spaceship video game - kind of realistic?
Are pirates going to keep doing their "pirate the mining ship" thing when there is a wing present to punish them for their transgressions?
I get it's not fun for you but if that is the actual mechanic, as you suggest, it seems pretty cool.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I agree there needs to be some hard as nails areas. for now hazres, compromised nav beacons and high intensity CZs should be that thing.

going forward i would love it if FD ditched the whole farming things however and had dynamic missions...... then the res sites become a more sensible area for you know.................... MINING along with a possible lower tier ship to protect the miner from the odd pirate... get rid of the huge police presence from them due to fewer pirates.

infact with all the new structures in 2.3 that could be a use for them.

missions to liberate a base which has been over run by pirates / terrorists and wiped out security forces.

depending on the difficulty the missions could pay very well... drop in and there are a wing of 3- 6 mixed high level ships (if its a dangerous or above ranking on the mission give them a liberal dose of eng mods)

blow them up and the area is cleared, return hand in mission, get mission payments AND bounty vouchers. no farming needed, then take on another mission.

 

[rucky]

What?



Oh, I never heard that before.

So I guess that FD put in all these engineers and mods exclusively for PvP right? *chuckles*

You've heared of sarcasm before? No?

Problem with the actual implementation is there is no simple way for FD to adjust difficulty from a lonely elite-player non-engineered python to a full engineered 4-corvette-battle-wing.

There needs to be new CZs and Res sites for engineered ships with engineered NPCs all over the place...

 

[[VR] Bac Ho]

1000000% this... this is my 'simplistic' solution i keep suggesting for fixing CZ/RES seal-clubbing with wings of engineered ships
I posted it in the beta feedback Sandy asked for regarding shields changes

My main thing of improvement for PVE combat would come from linking the RES/CZ spawn system into the system government/state/security level.
For example, head into a SOL res or LHS3447 starter system ... i'd expect the system to be policed super agressively, highly responsive and merciless to outlaws. Coversely the pirates there i would therefore expect to be at the bottom of the food chain in terms of ship class, AI rank, engineering, bounty.
In other words, give the newbies a place to learn the trade.

Go up to an 'average' system with middle security level ... similar low/med res i'd expect to be pretty well policed and have reasonable pirates in wings with better ai/ships.
Maybe the HAZ res start to get some larger ships and master/expert/dangerous level AI in wings or 3 and 4

Then go up to your low-sec/low-governing systems... i'd expect even the LOW res here to be reasonably well equipped pirates with the police 'barely there' (as in they can't cope) and the HAZ RES to be swarming with wings of deadly/elite in small wings with solid AI, engineering (minor) but a solid challenge to single human player.

Step up to anarchy/pirate owned systems.... all RES marked as 'HOSTILE' RES. In here should be large wings of elites with large bounties that a solo player should find pretty much impossible to handle. NPCs with top-end AI, solid ships with engineering mods.
This would be where wings players can have fun

CZ's can work similar.... the more dangerous the system - the more dangerous the RES.

Right now the RES are still a total snooze fest and nerfing shields isn't making life any more fun ... it just makes the fights quicker.... but we're still out-classing them.
I can regularly go into a HAZ RES and find just endless wings of 'master' eagles or whatever.... that's not 'hazardous'
RES spawning is still very very broken.

Wow I love that idea and indeed it would make RES site more challenging and interesting. The last time RES site were challenging was in one of the previous updates when the NPC had engineered weapons and then you had to carefully think and pick your fright. But alas the forums burst into salty wails and out came the nerf hammer.

 

[rucky]

I agree there needs to be some hard as nails areas. for now hazres, compromised nav beacons and high intensity CZs should be that thing.

Again, I need to mention, High Intensity CZs are the EASYIER CZs! It's a commonly mistake many think that HiCZs are heavier.
The Point is in LowCZs you will be ganged very more often from 5 and more NPCs, especially when your kill rate is very high (and in modded ships it is very high), so you get aggro all over the place!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Again, I need to mention, High Intensity CZs are the EASYIER CZs! It's a commonly mistake many think that HiCZs are heavier.
The Point is in LowCZs you will be ganged very more often from 5 and more NPCs, especially when your kill rate is very high (and in modded ships it is very high), so you get aggro all over the place!

interesting observation, to be honest i do not have that much experience of them as i am primarily a bounty hunter not a military man..... imo my over all point still stands however