Engineers 5 Grade FSD RANGE

Insane4un · May 30, 2016

Upgrade 5 FSD range after 4 grade. Sounds good right?

NO.

http://floomby.ru/s2/GgPrKb

Seriosly. WHAT the **** is THIS? Do i upgrade or downgrade? Please! We already speak about it while it was beta! This is just Ludicrous.

Anyway, i am happy with 4 grade as well.. I have now a real LONG RANGE (17LY) patrol warship - Federal Corvette. Just as text say in description in role panel. Now this description make some sense actually.

Thanks for such a great update. But still a lot of things to improve, fix, balance. I hope you can make it.

tarragon · May 31, 2016

This is, where in real life, you graciously accept the upgrade, lift off and drop 200 tons of gold on the engineering base from orbit(to prove your point - it is not so much about money, it is all about manners /we are British here/: the damn Engineer did not apologize.). Or, in slightly more realistic scenario, you call the cops to have him arrested for scam.

[wilb] · May 31, 2016

This happend as you upgraded it from 4 to 5 ^^... RNG well damn

GammaZ · May 31, 2016

Pure downgrades still happen regulary, i do not even make screenshots anymore.
Low grade armour upgrade which reduces resistances and increases mass? Low-grade distributor upgrades reducing all the stats affected? Had those multiple times...
Also it is probably better to buy new FSD before applying higher-rank upgrade so that you can keep both if you want to.

roadrage · May 31, 2016

Too much overlap between the grades. IIRC, a grade 3 caps at 25% range boost and grade 5 starts at 11%. [wacky]

My opinion, each grade should start at no less than 75% of the gain from the grade below. But I didn't get to make that call.

who? · May 31, 2016

Insane4un said:
Upgrade 5 FSD range after 4 grade. Sounds good right?

NO.

http://floomby.ru/s2/GgPrKb

Seriosly. WHAT the **** is THIS? Do i upgrade or downgrade? Please! We already speak about it while it was beta! This is just Ludicrous.

Anyway, i am happy with 4 grade as well.. I have now a real LONG RANGE (17LY) patrol warship - Federal Corvette. Just as text say in description in role panel. Now this description make some sense actually.

Thanks for such a great update. But still a lot of things to improve, fix, balance. I hope you can make it.

I'd guess if you got a particularly good Grade 4 upgrade, a weak Grade 5 upgrade isn't an improvement from that. I had some rolls like that, where I got particularly good Secondary effects as well, which made a Grade 4 upgrade that was hard to beat.

GJ51 · May 31, 2016

Just bad...

More, "Here pull my finger"

Shanaeri · May 31, 2016

I realise this isn't an option for a lot of people, but if you get a good roll on an item buy a storage ship to put it in and rebuy the module you want to try again on. That way you can go back.

Yes, it's totally silly we need to do this......

SeeZaa · May 31, 2016

so the roll was very kind on the grade 4 and very cruel on the grade 5.. you roll the dice, you take your chances.

Ian Skippy · May 31, 2016

You can see from the error bars that your C4 mod was incredibly good: better than an average C5 mod. In such a situation I'd just consider myself lucky and not upgrade beyond the c4 mod.

metatheurgist · May 31, 2016

sleutelbos said:
You can see from the error bars that your C4 mod was incredibly good: better than an average C5 mod. In such a situation I'd just consider myself lucky and not upgrade beyond the c4 mod.

Though I'd argue that if the RNG is so wild that a grade 4 can do better than a grade 5 (considering the amount of work required to collect mats) is a design point that needs reconsidering.

Henri · May 31, 2016

well if you take away the randomness, you take away the uniqueness and if you take away the uniqueness not only will everyone have the same maxxed out ships
but you will be left with overcharged equipment which we already had in alpha/beta of the base game +special effect. The expansion would not be called engineers
but mods.

biohazard15 · May 31, 2016

What they should do is to block the possibility of the next same upgrade being worst than the one you've already applied.

metatheurgist · May 31, 2016

Henri said:
well if you take away the randomness, you take away the uniqueness and if you take away the uniqueness not only will everyone have the same maxxed out ships
but you will be left with overcharged equipment which we already had in alpha/beta of the base game +special effect. The expansion would not be called engineers
but mods.

I love the randomness (I do think the special effects should disappear though), but there's random and then there's RaNDOm.

Karl Agathon · May 31, 2016

metatheurgist said:
I love the randomness (I do think the special effects should disappear though), but there's random and then there's RaNDOm.

Yeah, no. If you are a bloody engineer, you're bloody damn sure I'd expect you to do your goddamn job within params.

"Hey dude, here's the plan for the new apartment building you wanted - good news, the building is now earthquake proof. Bad news though - we somehow got rid of the windows, I think it was Billy in interior design, that silly goof... oh, and the doors are now all 1m tall."

Gitouttahere. Git.

capt_sparks · May 31, 2016

Karl Agathon said:
Yeah, no. If you are a bloody engineer, you're bloody damn sure I'd expect you to do your goddamn job within params.

"Hey dude, here's the plan for the new apartment building you wanted - good news, the building is now earthquake proof. Bad news though - we somehow got rid of the windows, I think it was Billy in interior design, that silly goof... oh, and the doors are now all 1m tall."

Gitouttahere. Git.

RNG happens all the time in engineering. The one we have in the game is a simplified simulation. If you want a high quality yield, bring the engineer lots of required ingredients. And if you want to control the outcome on certain tolerable levels, you have to do the math https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257599

Siranui · May 31, 2016

Karl Agathon said:
Yeah, no. If you are a bloody engineer, you're bloody damn sure I'd expect you to do your goddamn job within params.

"Hey dude, here's the plan for the new apartment building you wanted - good news, the building is now earthquake proof. Bad news though - we somehow got rid of the windows, I think it was Billy in interior design, that silly goof... oh, and the doors are now all 1m tall."

Gitouttahere. Git.

Which would be fair if they were building apartment buildings. But they aren't: They're experimental engineers, dabbling with bleeding edge developments.

Jamie Wolf · May 31, 2016

Siranui said:
Which would be fair if they were building apartment buildings. But they aren't: They're experimental engineers, dabbling with bleeding edge developments.

I do not buy that argument about bleeding edge technology.
In this universe spacetravel has been a commodity for about 1000 years. (The Federation was founded in 2240), the ships we are using are well known and established designs, many designs older then 200 years.
In 200 years even the most hidden parts of these ships and modules would be common knowledge (as I guess something like the Internet is still around).

Factories are obviously able to put out 1000s of ships which are identical in every bit.

Which makes it just more unbelievable that someone who is regarded as a specialist in his field of work is unable to duplicate an update he has done on one item, or do updaes within an exceptable frame of variation, and without creating totally weird side effects which vary every time he does the same update.

If you upgrade a multicannon to fire faster you would change the feeding mechanism and the barrel rotation to put out more bullets. But these bullets would not magical be incendiary ones.
And if you come to the guy the next time and ask him for the same modification, he then tells you sorry I used the same materials did the same modifications, but this gun now is only half as ggod as the last one I did for you and the bullets are now not incendiary but EMP bullets that take out shields.

These are the things that annoy most people I think.
People would put up with the weirdest treasure hunt through the galaxy for materials or info if they were assured the update they would get afterwards were worth it.
Now you fly around collect and pray for a good roll of the dice.